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EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:24 PM Mar 2016

What is a Democrat, and is it different now than ever before?

I began pondering this in another thread and began to think of the evolution of the Democratic party in my 60+ years on this Earth.

I wrote the following in the other thread.

"The party began moving strongly right in the 80's. Extremely high inflation and the Iran crisis sapped the energy from the Carter administration despite his success in the Camp David Accords.

The 80's lead to the Reagan Revolution, yes they called it a Revolution, and it cemented a philosophy the GOP has continued to embrace. Mondale and Dukakis were trounced, and a new Democratic ideal began in the 90's. One that was an attempt to retreive those Reagan Democrats by moving further right. It worked and Bill Clinton was elected for eight years, but policies such as trade, incarceration and welfare took big hits. The 2000's brought terrorism, and renewed nationalism, and deregulation. Obama, ran on a campaign of Hope and Change. It excited the voters and then when legislative gridlock set in it's pretty well now moved to an acceptance of "No, we can't, because...(insert a thousand reasons here.)

This is where we are. It is a party so far away from FDR who said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, or Kennedy who got America excited with making the impossible possible touting civil rights, and medicare and medicaid and even getting a man to the moon. It took Johnson to put those social policies into action but by the end of the decade America began to believe change could happen.

Now, instead of believing change can happen, we're told the reasons change "can't" happen. It is a pragmatic party now. Feels more "grown up" and less idealistic.

But as a pragmatist would say, it is what it is."

My question is what is the quintessence of the Democratic Party today? Why should people vote Democratic today, NOT why shouldn't they vote Republican and NOT why they shouldn't vote for Trump, but WHY should they vote Democratic?

I ask this because a lot of posters wonder what the Democratic Party really stands for going forward.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What is a Democrat, and is it different now than ever before? (Original Post) EndElectoral Mar 2016 OP
Third Way. pragmatism. Center right. Neo-Conservative. Corporatism. djean111 Mar 2016 #1
corporate socialism, crony capitalism, globalism, pay-to-play politics, superPacs, interventionism, Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #3
Yes, I agree with you and the OP author. floriduck Mar 2016 #28
Running for office has become a career path to becoming a millionaire - not too shabby for public Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #31
Losing labor? dogman Mar 2016 #2
Same place as the progressives. Chan790 Mar 2016 #16
The numbers of Union members voting GOP has been around 35%. dogman Mar 2016 #29
Way, Way Different colsohlibgal Mar 2016 #4
The began to "know the price of everything and the value of nothing". Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #5
The party is more liberal than at any time in it's history wyldwolf Mar 2016 #6
Can't see programs started today like soc. security, medicare, medicaid. Feel we'd be told we can't EndElectoral Mar 2016 #9
because we're not facing a world-shattering economic collapse wyldwolf Mar 2016 #10
I'm gonna screencap this post for later GoldenThunder Mar 2016 #13
You sound like you're hoping for a worldwide economic collapse wyldwolf Mar 2016 #17
Read Thom Hartmann's book "the crash of 2016" GoldenThunder Mar 2016 #32
OMG Dem2 Mar 2016 #34
is he recommending investing in gold, too? (snicker) wyldwolf Mar 2016 #37
JFK would find himself at odds-and-evens with both the Sanders and Clinton wings. Chan790 Mar 2016 #18
No. JFK would agree with Sanders over Secret Government and Big Business. Octafish Mar 2016 #20
Yes. JFK was a 'progressive's' nightmare wyldwolf Mar 2016 #22
If they're in step with the DNC, a center-rightist. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #7
We're not going to change shit unless... Chan790 Mar 2016 #19
DLC still lives UglyGreed Mar 2016 #23
Let's check Doctor_J Mar 2016 #8
The Clinton "pro-choice" check should be a neutral. Chan790 Mar 2016 #21
Wow UglyGreed Mar 2016 #24
Party's change which is why I stick to terms like liberal and progressive. Live and Learn Mar 2016 #11
Thank you for posting this. It really matters casperthegm Mar 2016 #12
Eisenhower would be a flaming liberal today. GoldenThunder Mar 2016 #14
A Democrat is a supporter of the Democratic party. It's an allegiance, not an ideology. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2016 #15
The Democratic Party identity now seems to be defined by pro-diversity affluent urbanites AZ Progressive Mar 2016 #25
I take issue with one point - Carter and Inflation ... Trajan Mar 2016 #26
Agree about Carter Art_from_Ark Mar 2016 #36
Sanders is not supported by this party he joined felix_numinous Mar 2016 #27
The Party stands for the 1%. Broward Mar 2016 #30
Wow. Forgot I posted this op. Damn depressing to read. Cynicism has left it's mark on the party. EndElectoral Mar 2016 #33
I'll vote for the candidate whose views are closest to FDR's no matter the party lable Vote2016 Mar 2016 #35

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
3. corporate socialism, crony capitalism, globalism, pay-to-play politics, superPacs, interventionism,
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 12:42 PM
Mar 2016

competitive nihilism, elimination of public education through charter school corporitation, terrorism as a tool of foreign policy, ISIS as an existential threat, militarization of local police, an overwhelming global military presence, too-big-to-fail banks, a unregulated derivatives market, corporate sovereignty.

The above is a partial list reflecting the advocacy and actions of the 2 most recent Democratic presidents.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
28. Yes, I agree with you and the OP author.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:35 PM
Mar 2016

But due to the rise of conservatism, reduction in voting rights and increases in money in politics have run amok. So nearly every single elected official now has access to funds they didn't get before. Super PACs have just exacerbated the problem. Unfortunately, both major political parties participate
in the payday.

There was a time when elected officials fought for their constituency without regard to rewards. That has come to a fucking, screeching halt. That is why Bernie Sanders has made such an impact on people who are concerned about their friends and family. The well connected or willfully blind are oblivious to this. And this is the MOST AMAZING PART; Those being hurt the worst have been conned to accept the status quo. Thus, the AA community supports one of the systems worst abusers.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
31. Running for office has become a career path to becoming a millionaire - not too shabby for public
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:59 PM
Mar 2016

servants! My solution to money problem is to make it such that Political contributions (up to $5000) shall only be contributed to candidates for whom the contributor is legally authorized to cast a vote. So, I you can vote for a candidate, you can contribute to that candidate. Nothing else.

PS> To my knowledge, corporations cannot vote (yet).

This is one in my series, "Twitter Solutions to World Problems - solving the world's problems in 140 characters or less."

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
16. Same place as the progressives.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 04:58 PM
Mar 2016

(No idea, for the most part...but the minority of them is what is concerning.)

It really isn't that simple with some of them though...lots of union members that hold socially-conservative values voted against their economic interests to vote for Reagan twice and Dubya twice. It's not that we don't know where they'll go...we just don't want to think about it.

We don't thankfully have to worry about progressives becoming Republicans...there hasn't been a progressive wing of the GOP since Teddy Roosevelt was alive. (and yes, such things are possible even if strange.)

dogman

(6,073 posts)
29. The numbers of Union members voting GOP has been around 35%.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:39 PM
Mar 2016

I think this year might go higher. Just anecdotal is tradesmen putting Trump stickers on their lifts and vehicles in the parking lot. He is the Middle Finger candidate. They have not been treated very well by the Party and are ready to blame "those animals&quot Trump's battlecry) for their troubles. As you say, they have a tendency to ignore their best interests.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
4. Way, Way Different
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016

Their are still true progressive democrats but they are increasingly outnumbered by the corporate friendly third way types. They cover their big money coziness by being mostly liberal on social issues.

Just like the off the rails totally republicans this has been enabled by too many low info citizens who just do not research or drill down deep on issues. Like the lowering of the unemployment rate...how many of the jobs are for low wages, too low to be secure with food or medicine or any other necessities.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
5. The began to "know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016

With a tip of the hat to Oscar Wilde.

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
6. The party is more liberal than at any time in it's history
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

Yes, even more so than the 1930s/40s, especially on social issues.

That being said, the party has always been a pragmatic centrist one - since the days of Wilson. Progressives have, at times, attempted coup d'etats but really only saw the party as the easiest apparatus to achieve their goals. That's the nature of party politics. But they never really called themselves 'Democrats.'

It wasn't until fairly recently the progressives came to (mistakenly) consider themselves the "real Democrats."

FDR was no progressive messiah. Kennedy would likely find himself WAY out of step with the Bernie Sanders corner of the left.

GoldenThunder

(300 posts)
32. Read Thom Hartmann's book "the crash of 2016"
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 07:12 PM
Mar 2016

or don't and be blindsided by this. It's your choice. I choose to be prepared.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
18. JFK would find himself at odds-and-evens with both the Sanders and Clinton wings.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:11 PM
Mar 2016

Where we see the clearest difference between him and Clinton is that facing similar conflicts, he usually chose the opposite choice and compromised on social issues to hold fast on economic ones. (JFK's economics being absolutely-Keynesian and closer to Sanders but slightly more moderate.) To him, Hillary would be a traitor on the one thing you don't compromise: the economy. Militarily, he's to the hawkish side of her as well.

Where we see the clearest difference between JFK and Sanders is that to Kennedy, Bernie Sanders would be nothing but a dirty, agitating, peacenik sympathizer with racial and economic dissidents. Similar goals and a lot of interpersonal conflict.

There's a lot of idealized (and wrong) vision for Democrats of who Jack Kennedy was...he was both far more inflexible and far more pragmatic than people give him credit for. If we were to diagram the three of them, he'd be more distant from both of them than they are from each other.

I daresay, he'd despise them both. Sanders for personal reasons, Clinton for political ones.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. No. JFK would agree with Sanders over Secret Government and Big Business.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:19 PM
Mar 2016
"Glorious Victory" by Diego Rivera



In 1974 Call to Abolish CIA, Sanders Followed in Footsteps of JFK, Truman

by Jon Schwarz
The Intercept, Feb. 22 2016

According to an article in Politico, Bernie Sanders, during his 1974 campaign for the Senate on Vermont’s Liberty Union Party ticket, called the Central Intelligence Agency “a dangerous institution that has got to go.” Sanders complained that the CIA was only accountable to “right-wing lunatics who use it to prop up fascist dictatorships.”

Jeremy Bash, a former CIA chief of staff who is now an adviser to Hillary Clinton’s campaign, told reporter Michael Crowley that Sanders’s comment “reinforces the conclusion that he’s not qualified to be commander in chief.” Bash explained: “Abolishing the CIA in the 1970s would have unilaterally disarmed America during the height of the Cold War and at a time when terrorist networks across the Middle East were gaining strength.” Bash was chief of staff for Leon Panetta at both the CIA and Defense Department, and now runs a consulting firm called Beacon Global Strategies.

But Sanders’ position is not that radical: many prominent politicians, including two previous Democratic commanders-in-chief, have called for the CIA to be dismantled or severely constrained.

John F. Kennedy famously described his desire to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds” after the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Peter Kornbluh points out in his book Bay of Pigs Declassified that the State Department at that same time proposed that the CIA should be stripped of its covert action capacity and renamed. However, the CIA escaped any serious repercussions — partly because, as Kornbluh explains, the CIA’s then-director John McCone made sure that most of the copies of a damning report on the Bay of Pigs by the Agency’s own Inspector General were literally burned.

Then in 1963, after Kennedy’s assassination, Harry Truman wrote a newspaper column explaining that “I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations … I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President … and that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.”

CONTINUED...

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/22/in-1974-call-to-abolish-cia-sanders-followed-in-footsteps-of-jfk-truman/


In economic matters, JFK was taped talking about Income Inequality in 1963:

JFK tapes offer lesson in income inequality

By Tom Putnam | GLOBE CORRESPONDENT JANUARY 24, 2012

DURING THE last days of his presidency, John F. Kennedy had a number of concerns on his mind. In tapes being released today by the Kennedy Library, we hear, for example, the president focus on his reelection and issues of economic inequality. What can we do, he asks his political advisers, to make voters “decide that they want to vote for us, Democrats? What is it we have to sell ’em? We hope we have to sell them prosperity, but for the average guy the prosperity is nil. He’s not unprosperous, but he’s not very prosperous. He’s not . . . very well-off. And the people who really are well-off hate our guts.’’ As questions about growing social inequity increasingly dominate our current political dialogue, it may be instructive to look back at how these issues played out a half century ago.

Having witnessed the country survive the Great Depression and World War II, JFK understood the economic and military vulnerabilities of democratic capitalism. Though insulated by his family’s wealth, JFK was affected by the poverty he witnessed on the 1960 campaign trail. One of the memorable lines from his inaugural address “if a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich’’ helps explain his first executive order: increasing surplus food allotments to poor communities across the nation.

Once in power, his economic policies were ideologically balanced, combining, for example, a proposed tax cut to stimulate the economy with efforts to raise the minimum wage and expand unemployment benefits. Like the current incumbent, JFK’s legislative efforts - especially those designed to help the poor and advance civil rights - were often stymied by members of Congress. During his 1962 State of the Union address he reminded his congressional colleagues: “The Constitution makes us not rivals for power but partners for progress. . . It is my task to report the State of the Union - to improve it is the task of us all.’’

In terms of his administration’s relationship with the “really well-off,’’ his most famous confrontation came during the steel crisis in 1962. Having helped to negotiate a non-inflationary wage settlement with the United Steelworkers Union, Kennedy thought he had an agreement with industry executives that, in exchange, they would not raise the price of steel that year.

CONTINUED...


When secret government agencies and secret government agents act to benefit secret agendas and secret groups and secret individuals, it isn't democracy. Like Bernie Sanders, JFK knew that.

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
22. Yes. JFK was a 'progressive's' nightmare
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:48 PM
Mar 2016

1. A tax-cutter who championed across-the-board, top-to-bottom reductions in corporate tax rates.

2. Suspicious of welfare, "“I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort."

3. A Cold War anticommunist who aggressively increased military spending.

“I am not a liberal at all,” Kennedy once told the Saturday Evening Post. “I’m not comfortable with those people.” Journalist and JFK insider Ben Bradlee confirmed it. “He hated the liberals.”

“When young, wealthy, and conservative John Fitzgerald Kennedy announced for Congress, many people wondered why,” it began. “Hardly a liberal even by his own standards, Kennedy is mainly concerned by what appears to him as the coming struggle between collectivism and capitalism. In speech after speech he charges his audience ‘to battle for the old ideas with the same enthusiasm that people have for new ideas.’ ”

Eleanor Roosevelt was asked in a TV interview whom she would support if forced to choose “between a conservative Democrat like Kennedy and a liberal Republican [like] Rockefeller.” FDR’s widow, then as now a progressive icon, answered that she would do all she could to make sure Kennedy wouldn’t be the party’s nominee.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/10/19/would-jfk-never-liberal-still-find-home-democratic-party/ZrxV7lJYHrvWxOjXItAuZJ/story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/08/the-new-new-left-is-no-new-frontier-and-jfk-was-no-liberal.html

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
7. If they're in step with the DNC, a center-rightist.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:39 PM
Mar 2016

Otherwise, it's hard to say. I'll be a Democrat until mid-May, when my state's probably-meaningless primary is over. Then back to independent. But in the meantime, this "Democrat" is a progressive democratic socialist.

I'm hoping for a marked swing to the left, so I could actually buy in to that registration. Historically, the party hasn't always been at all progressive, though, so I'll not hold my breath.


 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
19. We're not going to change shit unless...
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:13 PM
Mar 2016

people like you stay in and "eat the peas" (suffer the unpleasantness) of being the change agents in this party.

We need the likes of you to remain Democrats and become vocal Democratic Socialists engaged in your new party.

Please stay.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
21. The Clinton "pro-choice" check should be a neutral.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:22 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary, in direct response to a question by Upchuck Toad, said she'd support reasonable restrictions on choice if Republicans would accept exceptions for the health of the mother. Her "pro-choice" stance is more neutral and nuanced than what is being suggested.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

casperthegm

(643 posts)
12. Thank you for posting this. It really matters
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 04:24 PM
Mar 2016

Or at least it should. I too, question the direction of the Democratic party. How the voters can simply overlook the clear pro-corporate America/Wall Street agenda embraced by Clinton is beyond me. But it's what the voters want. So I have to wonder if this is still the party for me. I still believe in what it once was. But I don't think that's what it is any more.

GoldenThunder

(300 posts)
14. Eisenhower would be a flaming liberal today.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 04:51 PM
Mar 2016

No we can't beat the Nazis. No we can't have peace in Korea. No we can't have a nationwide interstate highway system.
Maybe Ike could get nominated by the Greens today. I don't think there's any other place in today's political world for a socialist like him.

PS: My dad was helping to build the interstate through my hometown when he met my mom. So I'm literally a child of socialism. Have a nice day.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
15. A Democrat is a supporter of the Democratic party. It's an allegiance, not an ideology.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 04:57 PM
Mar 2016

As to

NOT why shouldn't they vote Republican and NOT why they shouldn't vote for Trump, but WHY should they vote Democratic?


I think this is a misguided question. The right question is "what separates the two parties". Trying to compile a list of all the reasons to vote for and against each party without reference to the other will end up with a lot of things like "Does not support making us eat kittens" getting listed as a reason to vote Republicans. Politics is like voltage - you can't define the voltage at a point, just the potential difference between two points.

To answer my own question, and hopefully help with yours, I think that the major things that separate the two parties at the moment are:

:-Democrats tend to believe in higher, more progressive taxes and a stronger social safety net; Republicans tend to believe in much lower, less progressive taxes and less spending.
:-Democrats tend to believe that racial discrimination is still a serious problem and more needs to be done to tackle it; Republicans tend to believe that racial discrimination is no longer a serious problem. The same is true of discrimination on grounds of sex, but I think to a significantly lesser extent.
:-Democrats tend to believe that climate change is a serious problem and more needs to be done to tackle it; Republicans tend to believe that it isn't.
:-Democrats tend to support abortion rights; Republicans tend to support more restrictions on abortion.
:-Democrats tend to be more sympathetic to immigrants, including illegal immigrants; Republicans tend to be less sympathetic to immigrants, especially illegal immigrants.
:-Democrats tend to believe in the separation of church and state; Republicans tend to want more overt Christianity in public life.
:-Democrats tend to support more liberal approaches to crime and punishment; Republicans tend to support stricter ones. In particular, legalisation of cannabis is starting to split along party lines.
:-There are a number of areas where Democrats favour more economic regulation for a variety of social and environmental reasons, while Republicans support less.
:-Democrats tend to support a more conciliatory and human-rights-based approach to foreign policy. Republicans tend to believe in the muscular assertion of American national interest, although they split as to whether they believe that is best served by interventionism or isolationism.

If you look in the policy platforms of any of the main-party candidates, you'll see see all these themes reflected.


AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
25. The Democratic Party identity now seems to be defined by pro-diversity affluent urbanites
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:02 PM
Mar 2016

socially progressive, economically right of center (affluent people are in favor of free trade.) The Democratic Party now is basically a big city party, a coalition of racial minorities and affluent urban whites.

To be honest, Nixon and the continual Republican Southern Strategy broke apart the old Democratic Party coalition of working class whites, and is largely the reason why the Democratic Party morphed itself into strictly the big city party.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
26. I take issue with one point - Carter and Inflation ...
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:15 PM
Mar 2016

It is typical to see persons attaching responsibility for the high inflation in the late seventies with President Carter ... However ...

During the Nixon Administration, inflation became such a problem that Nixon initiated the 'Wage-Price Freeze' ...

"Nixon issued Executive Order 11615 (pursuant to the Economic Stabilization Act of 1970), imposing a 90-day freeze on wages and prices in order to counter inflation. This was the first time the U.S. government enacted wage and price controls since World War II."

During the Ford Administration, because Inflation was still a rampant problem, Ford began his own program referred to as 'WIN - Whip Inflation Now'

Ten days later, Ford declared inflation "public enemy number one" before Congress on October 8, 1974, in a speech entitled "Whip Inflation Now", announcing a series of proposals for public and private steps intended to directly affect supply and demand, in order to bring inflation under control.

So, to wrap: Nixon didn't stop inflation ... Ford didn't stop inflation ..

Why the FUCK is it Carter's fault?

I've argued this one with righties since Reagan came to office ....

Democrats need to know this, and to resist this false accusation against this very decent man ...

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
36. Agree about Carter
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 07:57 PM
Mar 2016

Inflation was a problem throughout the '70s. Carter inherited it from Ford, who inherited it from Nixon.

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
27. Sanders is not supported by this party he joined
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:21 PM
Mar 2016

too bad everyone identifying as Democratic Socialists can't form together and represent independently. Third Wayers deserve to be in their own party where they would have to answer for their own policies, instead of masquerading as leftists or progressives.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
30. The Party stands for the 1%.
Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:40 PM
Mar 2016

Ostensibly, it also stands for duplicity and dishonesty given the looming nomination of Hillary. Moreover, it's amazing that the only general election candidate that supported the Iraq War will Likely come from the Dem side. I guess the Party now stands for bullshit wars too.

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
33. Wow. Forgot I posted this op. Damn depressing to read. Cynicism has left it's mark on the party.
Mon Mar 21, 2016, 07:28 PM
Mar 2016

I joined the Democratic Party years andd years ago because of it's vision.

Right now the party feels...tarnished...like the dreams of FDR and JFK and MLK are now more nice pieces of history rather than acting as catalysts for change to make things better for the poor and middle class of America.

I didn't want this thread to be about Sanders or Clinton despite my strong feelings on that regard, but just to gather what the Democratic Party means today as opposed to its history.

My one conclusion is that I don't like the way the party is evolving into something quite different than what it was when I joined. I expect change, but the lack of hope and vision and the overwhelming power of big money is something I worry about.

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