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2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders: Superdelegates should vote for the candidate who can win in November
if we win a number of states, thats also an if, but if thats the factor and it appears that I am the stronger candidate against Trump, youre going to see some superdelegates saying, You know what? I like Hillary Clinton but I want to win this thing, Bernie is our guy.
From the discussions I've had, many of the superdelegates ARE planning to vote for the candidate they think can win in November (Russ Feingold certainly is). But, good thing we won't be hearing any moire complaints about how superdelegates are anti-democratic, right?
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Bernie Sanders: Superdelegates should vote for the candidate who can win in November (Original Post)
brooklynite
Mar 2016
OP
If they steal it from Hillary after she wins more votes and delegates we are going to
hrmjustin
Mar 2016
#2
We don't know how a candidate will perform until he or she is submitted to the GOPU meatgrinder.
DemocratSinceBirth
Mar 2016
#5
Actually many supers support Hillary precisely because they think she can beat the GOP.
DCBob
Mar 2016
#6
RandySF
(59,079 posts)1. Hypocrite
Sanders is another politician willing to do anything to win.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)3. but but Bernie's not a politician, he's anti-establishment!
He's been in Washington for 24 years. Even more laughable than Cruz claiming to be an outsider
dchill
(38,516 posts)9. So he's another hypocrite?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)2. If they steal it from Hillary after she wins more votes and delegates we are going to
have problems.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)4. Hard for him to claim such high moral ground now
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)5. We don't know how a candidate will perform until he or she is submitted to the GOPU meatgrinder.
Michael Dukakis left the Democratic Convention in Atlanta with a seventeen point lead and wound up with a eight point deficit on the day of the election. That's a twenty five point swing:
DCBob
(24,689 posts)6. Actually many supers support Hillary precisely because they think she can beat the GOP.
So that argument is not going to work at all.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)10. Even though polling doesn't bear that out. eom
DCBob
(24,689 posts)11. Most knowledgeable insiders know that GE polling at this point in time is meaningless.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)7. I don't believe Russ Feingold is a Super-D.
His name is not on the list.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)8. Tad Devine was for super delegates before he was against them
before he was for them. LOL
Gothmog
(145,479 posts)12. Democrats would be insane to nominate Bernie Sanders
Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Sanders would be a very very weak general election candidate
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)13. Whats the matter with Bernie?
Cha
(297,472 posts)14. That's right.. it's going to be Hillary.