2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumRep. Tulsi Gabbard: Bernie Sanders Is the Commander in Chief We Need
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard: Bernie Sanders Is the Commander in Chief We Need
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard @TulsiGabbard 9:39 AM ET
He knows when not to unleash U.S. military power
The commander in chief of the worlds most powerful military must have the sound judgment to know when to use Americas military power and, just as important, when not to use that power.
To his credit, President Barack Obama has displayed throughout his presidency an instinctive reticence to launch military strikes. The most disastrous foreign policy decisions during the Obama years as commander in chief occurred when he trusted the advice of others over his own instincts.
While President Obama agonized over whether to use force to overthrow Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, it was Secretary of State Hillary Clintons impassioned and persistent arguments in favor of military action against Gaddafi that tipped the scales in what has been described as a very close 51-49 Obama decision to use force.
Five years later, President Obama describes Libya as a mess. A failed state, Libya is now a haven for terrorist organizations including ISIS fighting for control of the country.
In Syria, where Secretary Clinton has repeated her advocacy of military intervention to overthrow the government of Bashar al-Assad, President Obama is roundly criticized for having drawn a red line in the sandthreatening that the U.S. would bomb Syria if Assad were to use chemical weapons against the Syrian peopleand then failing to follow through on that threat a year later when it was reported that Assad had in fact used chemical weapons on his own people.
The decision to not create yet another completely failed state in the Middle East and open the door to a takeover of all of Syria by ISIS and other terrorist organizations is one that some say may have cost him credibility, but I believe it may have been one of President Obamas finest moments as commander in chief....
Read more:
http://time.com/4266766/bernie-sanders-commander-in-chief/
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Clinton is not suited for such a position...military responses are her go to response.
randome
(34,845 posts)She believes terrorism derives from radical Islam. She's a bigot.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)an entire country and went further to encourage the mess in Libya and now
profess Gabbard is the problem?
I don't agree with her remarks, not at all..and she is not the one who
is running for president.
randome
(34,845 posts)All I know about Libya is that France, Britain and the Arab League were all asking for us to intervene and that Gaddahi promised a blood bath.
It wasn't my call to make and I don't understand why some on an Internet discussion forum think they're qualified to make those calls, either.
But I do know that Gabbard is a loose cannon who has spared no expense to trash Obama and Islam. The hell with her.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)occurred. I suggest you read the Obama Doctrine and look closely at his
view of Libya. He has disengaged with the war people of on our side.
Gabbard is not wrong about the needless military interventions we have
pursued, her opinions on Islam will not be part of any Sanders foreign
policy.
randome
(34,845 posts)I'm willing to trust those in charge of such matters unless they demonstrate incompetence. There is no doubt in my mind that Bush, Jr. was incompetent. The rest? Afghanistan? Yemen? Syria? What's the solution, disengaging from the world? Bombarding them with platitudes? Turning a blind eye? Not every problem has a military solution and the U.S. is not the world's policeman but, again, why would I think I know best? So long as there appears to be a need for military involvement, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the actual experts, unless as I stated above.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)questioning people who govern this country, yes?
Giving any of them of the benefit of the doubt is not a great idea..they all
need to be held accountable for their actions/decisions.
randome
(34,845 posts)I'm not voting so I can micro-manage foreign affairs. Yes, I should be aware and engaged in what my country is doing on my behalf but, like I said, a host of countries wanted us to intervene and Gaddafi promised a blood bath. Under those conditions, why would I second-guess the decision to intervene?
Bear in mind this was Obama's decision to make. Sure, it was at Clinton's urging, and I would tend to trust Obama more than Clinton, to be honest, but again, the situation was more complex than just deciding to turn a blind eye to what was happening. People would have died without our involvement, people died because of our involvement.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)The country is in chaos now DUE to our involvement.
The diminishing returns you're receiving is due in part to your unwillingness
to do your own homework.
think
(11,641 posts)It's good to have a person in favor of diplomacy in that office. Clinton proved time and time again that she's a reckless supporter of military intervention.
Clinton might want to chill out and take few notes from Kerry on diplomacy.....
randome
(34,845 posts)Since you know that we did everything wrong, what would have been the outcome if we had just watched?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
think
(11,641 posts)But speaking live on state television, Gaddafi warned that the "battle will be very, very long" if there is any intervention by foreign powers.
"If the Americans or the West want to enter Libya they must know it will be hell and a bloodbath - worse than Iraq."
Addressing "our friends in Europe and the West," he said it is "not at all in their interest to shake the Libyan regime."
http://www.smh.com.au/world/libya-leader-gaddafi-warns-of-bloodbath-20110302-1bf9j.html
So the blood bath statement is being taken out of context. Gaddafi wasn't a great person. But his removal like that of Saddam left a vacuum that made situations worse.
Who knows how the civil war would have went if the US didn't choose to intervene on Hillary's urging. But the blood bath remark wouldn't apply would it?
Instead Hillary di urge Obama to intervene and now we have a failed state with a ruthless terrorist organization operating out of Libya. The results have been a foreign policy disaster and they are in deed Hillary's making.
randome
(34,845 posts)But the situation in Libya was dire and showed no signs of getting better.
From your link:
UNHCR spokeswoman Sybella Wilkes said in Geneva that the situation on the Libya-Tunisia border was dire.
"My colleagues on the ground say that acres of people, as far as you can see, are waiting to cross," she said.
"They are outdoors in the freezing cold, under the rain, many of them have spent three or four nights outside already," said the spokeswoman from the Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees, appealing for "tens if not hundreds of planes" to help end the gridlock.
More than 100,000 people have already left Libya to escape a vicious crackdown by Gaddafi loyalists which has left at least 1,000 dead, according to conservative UN estimates.
A spokesman for the Libyan Human Rights League said on Wednesday the toll could even be as high as 6,000.
"Victims in the whole country were 6,000," Ali Zeidan told reporters in Paris, adding that this included 3,000 in Tripoli, 2,000 in Benghazi and 1,000 elsewhere.
Things were already spiraling out of control as a result of this 'vicious crackdown' by Gaddafi, which indicated an already failed state. That's not to say that the thing to do was take out Gaddafi but, again, I'm not much for second-guessing a situation on this scale.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Gabbard's very buddy-buddy with Modi in India, which makes her position about not tolerating religious extremists responsible for intercommuncal violence astoundingly hypocritical.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)overall have no value regarding military interventions.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Sometimes good intentions are not enough. The allies were supposed to follow through with on the ground defenses and controlling functions. ISIS goes into places at their own will. I would not doubt that remnants are inside Saudi Arabia. Had our partners kept their end of the Libyan bargain we would be cheering the establishment of a new era in Libya.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)so claiming.."our values." There was NO good reason to become directly involved
in their civil war. The other options were there and her judgment is to proceed
and push for another Imperialistic move..it's who she is on foreign policy.
The reason you don't do reckless stupid shit, you can't control what happens
next...hello, ISIS.
US, Britain and France is too often another word for trouble. BRICS wanted desperately
for a negotiated settlement, which was the smarter thing to do considering all
the tribal factions. Do you honestly believe Britain and France were not
motivated by Libya's oil rich land? That would be naive to do in this scenario.
They had a nasty dictator and he was obedient until he wasn't.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/libya-us-nato-_b_850418.html
The Scramble for Access to Libyas Oil Wealth Begins
By CLIFFORD KRAUSSAUG. 22, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/business/global/the-scramble-for-access-to-libyas-oil-wealth-begins.html
Libya: 'Ghadafi is Indictable - David Crane
http://allafrica.com/stories/200311050806.html
From Iraq to Libya and Syria: The wars that come back to haunt us
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/from-iraq-to-libya-and-syria-the-wars-that-come-back-to-haunt-us-10187065.html
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Proud to have made "the Iranians" her enemy. -HRC
"Adamantly opposed to illegal immigrants" -HRC
randome
(34,845 posts)But I'm not sure it matters. Every candidate talks tough on Israel and immigration. It's par for the course. I think it's ridiculous to think she's going to start tearing up treaties left and right like Trump has promised to do.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)someone who refers to Gandhi as a gas station attendant is a bigot
some one "adamantly opposed to illegal immigrants" is a bigot.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)SNIP
Since her first breaths in the world, Tulsi has been fed into the worship of Chris Butler the drug trafficking and extremely homophobic cult leader. Few of these cult children ever have a chance to get outside the undue influence of the thought reform and spiritual abuse inherent in serving Butlers megalomania.
This video shows a little of the Hinduism within Tulsis cult. Serving Chris Butler is the only direct route to God.
SNIP
The only Hinduism Tulsi or anyone in her or my family has ever been involved in is Chris Butler Cult Hinduism which is a disgrace and an abomination to real Hinduism which the cult feels seperate from and superior to.
Tulsis husband is a cult member, he works for Blue River Productions from Kailua which produces all the video for Tulsi and also cult leaders wife Wai Lana Butler of Wai Lana Yoga.
Tulsis husband Abraham Williams can be seen in the credits of co-cult leader Wai Lanas PBS shows, I have seen his name listed on the newest show they released a month or two ago, a Wai Lana pledge. PBS raising funds for an already wealthy cult leader and his wife.
MORE
https://ramaransonvsthecult.wordpress.com/2015/09/29/tulsi-gabbard-cult-born-and-raised/
Google has much more as to WHO Tulsi Gabbard is & why she is not to be trusted.
Fringe cultist. Bernie's revoluuuushun is the perfect stepping stone to her supreme ascendence.
You can have her Bernie..yikes!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Her bigotry is why no one should trust her statements on anything?
Do you believe this person should be trusted after making these statements?
Clinton Remark on Kennedys Killing Stirs Uproar
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYEMAY 24, 2008
BRANDON, S.D. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defended staying in the Democratic nominating contest on Friday by pointing out that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June 1992, adding, We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.
Her remarks were met with quick criticism from the campaign of Senator Barack Obama, and within hours of making them Mrs. Clinton expressed regret, saying, The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy, referring to the recent diagnosis of Senator Edward M. Kennedys brain tumor. She added, And I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive.
Still, the comments touched on one of the most sensitive aspects of the current presidential campaign concern for Mr. Obamas safety. And they come as Democrats have been talking increasingly of an Obama/Clinton ticket, with friends of the Clintons saying that Bill Clinton is musing about the possibility that the vice presidency might be his wifes best path to the presidency if she loses the nomination.
It was in the context of discussions about her political future that Mrs. Clinton made the remarks on Friday to the editorial board of The Sioux Falls Argus Leader. She had said that some people whom she did not name were trying to push her out of the race, but she noted that historically many races had gone on longer than hers.
My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? she said. We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.
Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, which has refrained from engaging Mrs. Clinton in recent days, said her statement was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign.
Privately, aides to Mr. Obama were furious about the remark.
Concerns about Mr. Obamas safety led the Secret Service to give him protection last May, before it was afforded to any other presidential candidate, although Mrs. Clinton had protection, too, in her capacity as a former first lady. Mr. Obamas wife, Michelle, voiced concerns about his safety before he was elected to the Senate, and some black voters have even said such fears weighed on their decision of whether to vote for him.
It was against that backdrop that Mrs. Clintons mentioning the Kennedy assassination in the same breath as her own political fate struck some as going too far. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an uncommitted superdelegate, said through a spokeswoman that the comments were beyond the pale.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/us/politics/24clinton.html?_r=0
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Fringe Cult.
I don't believe this has anything to do with Hillary since its Tulsi's motives I question, and why.
Buyer Beware..
This is who Tulsi is.
Oh well, what's one more fringe on the quest to cash in on the US Presidency.
Her cult leader must see $$$$ in his sleep.
Go for it Bernie, the revoluuushun awaits the likes of fringe cultists like Tulsi.
She's all yours.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)and he gets annoyed too easily. I can just see him getting angry and storming out on a negotiation.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Ya know, my fellow DUer Pab Sungenis used to just throw random stuff out ther to see what he could get away with.
I think he got banned for some bigotry or mysogyny statement. Something like that.
He was the type to mysteriously reappear with a new name.
This whole season reminds me of the crazyness of any political campaign.
You have a great day Betty Karlson.
Its a long haul till Nov when the Republicans are defeated.
Later
think
(11,641 posts)And now you attack another DUer for saying Sanders foreign policy is refreshingly sane.
Care to discuss foreign policy or are you just going to keep crapping in the thread?
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)I really don't think America needs our foreign policy directed by someone with her embedded cult backgroynd.
I gave you the reason why.
Why are you attacking me?
Suggesting what I bring to the conversation about Who Tulsi represents is crapping in this thread..
Read her bio.
My posts about Tulsi are absolutely valid in an OP about her. Perhaps she also should be vetted before heading out on the campaign trail. They all should be for the sake & security of our Nation.
Have no idea wht you call it crapping in the thread when it is valid & useful information as to the philosophy she lives by.
Wow!
Uncle Joe
(58,356 posts)Thanks for the thread, think.