2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLook-either call Bernie a socialist, or call him a libertarian.
He can't be both.
(and no, he can't be a "libertarian socialist"-that's a word for one form of anarchism, and if Bernie was an anarchist he wouldn't be running for the presidency).
Are we all quite clear on terms now?
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Statesperson. Patriot. Democratic Socialist...
And they are all good!
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)"The Patriot Act."
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Which seems odd to me as he is very much not a libertarian. I don't understand why he'd appeal to them at all.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Some people place truth telling before political leaning.
surrealAmerican
(11,360 posts)... a lot of people who call themselves "libertarian", don't really understand what that means. Many of them are simply people who think marijuana should be legalized, and are anti-war.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)is totes the EXACT SAME THING as privatize fire departments, drown government in a bathtub "libertarianism".
It's convenient when people don't want to actually own up to the fact that they secretly support shit like censorship, unconstitutional spying, or putting pot smokers in prison.... so they can call their opponents names instead.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Just make sure he is called Mr. President come Jan. 20, 2019
As for the smears the H camp dishes out, well, lets just call them what those are: mere smears straight from the dear's rears.
Bless their hearts.
Response to RobertEarl (Reply #3)
Name removed Message auto-removed
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The earlier the better. How much you charge for proof reading? lol
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)left-libertarians. The Libertarian Party and the libertarian faction of the Republican Party are all right-libertarians. Plenty of people on the left are anti-authoritarian left libertarian socialists. Like me for example. Sanders is somewhere over on the libertarian socialist side as well.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Might I trouble you for a suggested link or two?
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)We are socialists in the anarchist tradition. The First International had two main factions. The anarchists led by Mikhail Bakunin, and the Marxists, led by Karl Marx. The enmity between the two were such that Marx out-maneuvered Bakunin and expelled his followers.
Anarchists characterized the State and Capitalism are inseparable, and should be destroyed to affect revolution; The Marxists believed in revolution in stages, and so the ideal march to revolution was to use the State to establish "The dictatorship of the proletariat," and the State would "wither away."
Bakunin turned out to be correct, foreseeing the failed Bolshevik revolution some 50 years later. He was not alive to enjoy his vindication, though.
A great starter is "Anarchism: From Theory to Practice" by Daniel Guerin. It's free and available online.
"Marxism has tended to be a theoretical or analytical discourse about revolutionary strategy.
Anarchism has tended to be an ethical discourse about revolutionary practice." ~ David Graeber
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)OMG! Is that where Rand Paul got his name? I'm slow sometimes.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)(btw...those two could have starred in the BEST production of THE ODD COUPLE ever).
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)I don't usually agree with you about politics, but that's funny. Thanks.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I had the usual high-school interest in Rand, but it didn't take me too long to despise her.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... his domestic policy is social democratic, though it's unclear where he currently stands on states rights.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:21 AM - Edit history (1)
that US foreign policy must be predicated on an endless series of war.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... Look on trade and military matters Bernie is very much America first. He does not have that much interest in the plight of the oppressed around the world. Sure, he's better than anyone on the right, but he really has not been associated that much with even the most righteous issues abroad. Even on Ebola he was almost completely silent. He's really very libertarian on foreign affairs in general. The alternative of course is that he's a pacifist, as the socialist were in the 1910s, but I don't think that's the case.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)But please stop calling him a democratic socialist.
Please take that as a joke.
Sanders is Sanders.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I get it that you meant it as a joke but, unlike being a libertarian and a socialist all at once, being a democratic socialist is not an inherent contradiction.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Not everyone can say that, unfortunately.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But as far as Sanders he seems much more the rib-rock Republican a.k.a. Libertarian than any flavor of socialist, leaving aside his rather flimsy campaign promises which will be forgotten before the train leaves the station of his last whistle stop.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)"All anarchists are socialists, though not all socialists are necessarily anarchists." Said at different times by both individualist anarchists, Adolf Fischer and Benjamin Tucker, referring to their brothers, the Marxists.
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, a socialist, was the first to declare himself am anarchist.
Before the events at the First International, when Marx expelled Bakunin and his anarchist sect, the prevailing theories on socialist organization was leaning towards the libertarian constructs. Even Marx was first enamored with Proudhon and his work, "What is Property?" They eventually had a falling out but not before Marx lifted his ideas on scientific socialism.
Now, granted, Sanders isn't an anarchist, but the degree of his anti-authoritarianism is sufficient for many anarchists.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... I like him quite a bit.
Many of his supporters are glibertarians ...
... I like them not so much.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)drm604
(16,230 posts)Did I miss something?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)are racists.