that is a better fit?

Yeah, I think we'll take the productive choice.

The loyalty check with prostate exam is new though.

Play by the rules or don't play at all.

But really, the superdelegate thing is moot anyways since it is virtually impossible for Sanders to make up the pledged delegate gap.

there is nothing mid stream about it.

Super delegates should just be done away with. They are pointless.

They are there to make sure OUR party does not get hijacked by a radical who makes promises that government officials know he can't keep. It is there to prevent inexperienced people who call the elders of the party DINO's do not attempt to run against our own DEMS in sitting seats. That is their purpose. I do not want them done away with I want them made stronger.

To be clear, are you suggesting that even if Bernie were to secure a majority of pledged delegates the supers should prevent his nomination?

And, hypothetically, if he were to get a majority of the popular vote as well, should the supers prevent the nomination?

The supers should pledge with the ESTABLISHMENT. If Bernie wins in a landslide the Presidency is his. These are establishment rules and Bernie agreed to them. He has expressed disdain for the party. What Sanders says about Clinton no... he could just as easily say about most Democrats running for Congress or in the states—and they surely know it. So it baffles me that he is demanding their support.

Leaving Hillary in the dust while all the Super Delegates boasted about not being elected officials who didn't have to serve anyone but their own ideas... You wouldn't consider that worth changing? One super delegates vote has the power of about 10,000 regular citizens... you don't think that's worth changing?

the establishment. I would not expect the establishment to bow down to him. If Hillary has more pledges delegates by a small margin it's still a win right? Supers should go to her right? Or no?

They wield too much power and shouldn't exist. They can overthrow the popular vote theoretically and that's certainly not fair.

However, in the current system, if she were to get the popular vote, sure they can go to her. Should they? It shouldn't really matter because the majority vote recipient should win anyway, super delegates or not. Thus, the reason I find their existence unnecessary.

a candidate that disdains the party from hijacking it

Not you or I.

As Elizabeth Warren said, "If you're not at the table, you're on the menu."

You've got to admit, there's a mass group of us Bernie Supporters who feel that Bernie represents the true core of the Democratic Party. You don't have to agree with that. I'm not asking you to. But the point is, people in power are deciding FOR US, who should or shouldn't be a valid choice for us to choose.

Whether or not you support Bernie, you've got to admit, that's the government taking something away from us.

If anything, Super Delegates are supposed to prevent a Donald Trump from happening. Since the Republican party doesn't have Super Delegates, they're kind of screwed there. But you know what Bernie Sanders isn't? He's not a threat to the soul of the party like Trump is to the Republicans. Bernie is certainly a unifier of GOOD IDEAS and POSITIVE THINKING. Why would that be something to work against? Bernie isn't encouraging violence or lawlessness. Bernie made ME and millions of others register to vote for the first time in our lives... AS DEMOCRATS. Not Hillary, not even Obama did that for me. The Democratic Party could embrace this strength and revitalization of it's (what I feel) core values. But it's not embracing us. Why would it do that?

Because Bernie is "hijacking" the party? If this is a hijacking, he's clearly done something good, because I joined up thinking that I've joined the party of the people. The one that cares about the working class and gives a damn about people. It can't be that Bernie doesn't benefit the people. How does Bernie not benefit the people? Oh, that's the thing. He does. But he doesn't benefit the DNC. He doesn't benefit big money's hands in politics. And that's why the Super Delegates are against him.

Tell me, you're a Democrat who believes this is a members only club. Tell me to my face why Bernie is the bane of the Democratic Party and why I don't belong here. Tell me how I hijacked the Democratic Party and why I should go elsewhere.

I do not think he is good for the party in fact the opposite. I will give you a link to read so you can see how I feel.. I am clearly NOT Feeling the Bern at all tho.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/sanderss-party-problem/460293/


The link is not a source of news but rather to give you an idea where I and frankly THE ESTABLISHMENT is.

I understand that we think differently on this.

I will say that I am the "left that has criticized both parties" just like the article mentioned. I grew up somewhat apolitical, while gathering news here and there in the state of NC. I heard a lot of Republicans and Democrats as I developed.

So, I know that neither party is perfect. You shouldn't cling to the Democratic Party as if it is infallible and should never be criticized, that's the antithesis of open mindedness. The Democratic Party should be open to change and criticism. Hell, the government as a whole should be open to criticisms.

Reading that article, I get the idea that you're in the position of "This is my party. You're an intruder who criticized it. Get out."

Well, now I have 2 questions for you...

Were his criticisms always unfounded and untrue?

AND

Tell me why I should leave?

I think his criticisms of the party exist and should be stood up to but he goes overboard almost like The whole party is rigged and that is unfounded. 2. I personally do not belief his ideas can be easily implemented. Not in 4 or even an 6 year term, Total re-haul will take a generation and that is what he is talking about. Total re-haul.

I don't know.. why should you leave? I don't understand that question.

that is a better fit?

.

No thank you..

And understands neither.

could i ask you to please elaborate on your post? i'm quite curious on the specific details behind it.

Where is the democracy in our party? No where it seems.

What ist is of course was described by Mussolini as "Corporatism" which is of course a synonym for... FASCISM!


So please do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with the various facets of this form of government...
http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm
Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

except 5), and that's debatable.

Unless Sanders takes the lead amongst elected delegates, this stuff about superdelegates is both moot and excuse-making.

And, let's see how well Bernie does in NY State before complaining about the superdelegates here choosing Clinton.

And Bernie supporters are hoping that super delegates will switch to Bernie regardless of what the vote totals are.

They think they can get away with throwing water on us and cool us down, but our cause is great and our passions are hot. They will be assimilated.

All our Super Delegates are belong to us.

Game ON.

You know for a while I seriously considered Sanders until the caucus on Saturday and the bitching that the Sanders people did. Theres a my way or the highway attitute Sanders voters have and their refusal to vote for the democratic nominee is sad.
Thanks for setting me back on the path.

are seriously deluded.

She will be as bad for us as her husband was. Glass Steagal. nafta. Most favored trade status for china.... Don't ask, don't tell.... Private prisons.

this election season who states,"WelI I was for Bernie but his supporters have made me switch to Hillary, blah blah blah " goes on my ignore list. Looks like there's another one.

From Oct 2015 to right before the caucus they were nothing but support for Bernie.
Here's a typical sample post from before their caucus: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511429176#post2

People only go to him if they vetted the issues.

They don't suddenly abandon the issues because someone was crabby to them.

I think you'll fit in fine with the Hillary supporters. - they've showing an amazing ability to ignore the issues... especially when actually knowing about them requires googling Hillary and watching all her flip flops. Have fun with them!

Alan Grayson and Raul Grijalva? They voted for Sanders but their states voted for Clinton.

who don't hold office and thus nothing can be done about them.

Weren't they the one's who kept saying that they would try to convince super delegates to switch to Sanders, even if Hillary ends the primaries with more pledged delegates? Obviously they don't give a fig about the will of the people.

...to the role of and the responsibilities of Super Delegates.

The SD responsibility is to the DNC that created and invented and describes those positions.

how embarrassing for the perpetually outraged.

the SD's each having the power of 10,000 regular voters each is... for what? Do tell us the reason. Other than to serve the DNC? And...ahem, so far, that's not a very good reason to exist. We're choosing the next president here, not catering to the DNC.

However, if they want to use the RNC or DNC as a platform for debates and getting their name out, they abide by the rule currently in place. If the rules are onerous. They can be changed via a protocol already established. It doesn't take a constitutional amendment.

RNC Recently changed their rules...it can be done.

SD system is not one I necessarily agree with. But my opinion isn't how changes are made. This amount of fussing wasn't front and center during the last two elections. Perhaps a little prep would have served everyone just a little better.

they hold, I assure you. They know who those voters are, too.

They care about the voters who turn out in mid-term elections. Do you know who doesn't turn out in mid-term elections? Do you know who sat at home in 2010 ad 2014? I do. They do. Maybe people should show up in mid-term elections so they'll actually have some clout in presidential election years. Maybe.

Think about it. House Members and Senators make up the majority of superdelegates. They're party-oriented people. They know who elects them. Those are the voters they are concerned with, not the new Sanders voters. They know those voters will not go to the polls in 2018.

Trust me...they know who their supporters are.

I live here and I think it is very possible he can win NY.
Maybe I am a fool, but I can't see these SD going against the will of the voters.
I have ALOT of big problems with the campaign Hillary is running but I sincerely don't believe either of the Dem candidates would want the will of the people ignored.

takes over then you will be sorry!

regarding Muslims?

to Hillary deporting Muslims or patrolling their neighborhoods?

and would never be attempted

but, look, i'm not advocating for Trump; I'm advocating for Sanders, who's the stronger candidate in the GE and an honest and trustworthy individual

and are prepared.

This place is so confusing sometimes.

and have a financial gain here right? I don't think any of them could be accused of using their conscience when they vote for her.

Pick a topic you're against and google. They can do the same. They don't care about he issues or it would be no contest. I would say it's money they care about.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

But only as an individual voter with one vote, like the rest of us. It's only when they use their superdelegate power, equivalent to 10,000 or more regular votes, to override the will of the people that there's a problem.

Yes, many (but not all) are elected officials but serving as a super delegate is not one of their official elected responsibilities. It's like when a university gives an honorary degree to some celebrity. In that case, the celebrity gives a speech. With super delegates, they receive special voting rights.

I don't agree with the super delegate system as it is not needed. Still, I have no issue with them voting whatever way they want for whatever reason.

It is not their jobs to reflect the will of the voters. They reflect the Party's prevailing wishes as determined by who the hell knows!

Superdelegates are charged with protecting the long-term welfare of the Democratic Party. Meaning protecting down ballot races - their own races and other Demcrats'.

I'd bet that very few of these SDs think Bernie has a whit of a chance of winning. Down ballot races will also be lost including the jobs of many of the SDs.

Superdelegates don't vote in down-ballot races so I assume you're referring to the presidential candidate's coattails.

If the superdelegates vote counter to the voters, there won't be any coattails, I can assure you.

they will send the party into the wilderness for at least a generation.

it was. why not? bernie wasn't expected to run and only did because Liz didn't

For the record, I think super deligates should be eliminated, but it would be dumb to expect them to follow the voters 100%. It we expect that we could just eliminate them.

I think we should eliminate super deligates but If I was made a super deligate I would vote Bearnie even if my state went for Clinton.

very well. It helped to establish the proportionality
of delegates and other more democratic ways.

McGovern was liked, but a) he did not rile up the
people as Bobby could have done, b) the establishment
of the party did not give him much support, and lastly
-it has to be admitted- he screwed up his own campaign
pretty badly.

That started the establishment's interference with the
SD.Remember,it is a club we voters don't belong to.

The DC party can set its own rules, and has done so,
until it is forced to realize that it may have barely
18-22% of voters left.

Only then it might cave, and I said might cave to the voters.

And right now the GOP is really wishing they had them to use against Trump.

Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders supporters want the superdelegates to make up their own minds except when those superdelegates decide against The Chosen One. A full and total withdrawal from Reality, that's what it is.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

The ranting on DU has become hilarious.

Unfortunately voters barely pay attention enough to vote for prez - it would take years of steady attention to ever change this corrupt system.