2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie said to Rachael: "we'll see about raising money for the party and candidates"...
Unbelievable. Sanders is all about Sanders. I see why very few in Congress has endorsed him.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)So much help to get more Democrats in congress.
How petty
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)obedience to the Leader...who needs congress?
But he knows he has enthusiasm and has already won the message. We see this from the continual evolutions and Hillary constantly having to follow his lead. He isn't an army of one, he knows we have his back, we know he has ours. We do not have to wonder what his position will be today. We know it is the same and not something different because certain donors have bigger pockets to peddle influence. One is running on message, the other is running on, well at least I'm not Trump.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)than someone that is inspiring people to stay home.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)to lose.
It is customary for Democrats to help and support each other for the greater benefit.
This "Me first" or "Only me" attitude it's completely unworthy of a Democrat
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Because as a campaign that only takes money from the people, you will have to wait. Certainly the Clooney dinner had to help? Cant Goldman write another check? Wasn't Trump a pretty generous supporter of hers? Certainly there is some industry that can continue bankrolling the democrats like the current presumptive nominee.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)party
agracie
(950 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)than is usually given.
In the larger scheme of things the money Sanders has raised is a drop in the bucket.
It's up to the rest of the Democrats to start standing for things that will enable them to generate the same level of enthusiastic support and contributions from real people, not just corporations.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)he merely said that he has to use his resources right now to get the nomination. He does not have Hillary's financial advantage. She has already been able to pump money into states.
A very reasonable response from Sanders.
You are twisting it. Of course he has to put himself first right now but he is certainly going to do what is fair. Why don't you give him the benefit of the doubt here? He will do what is right and beneficial to Dem candidates under the circumstances.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)he said he wanted to help the party apply the 50 state strategy, not just give lip service to it (which they have been doing). He said he would help the DNC if he gets the nomination.
He said also that he was sorry to have to limit campaigning in the South, especially TV ads, in order to save it for states he had a better chance in. And she used that against him, saying that Tad Devine said Bernie "chose not to compete" --MEANING that he chose to save on TV ads. Rachel implied there was a lot of bungling and inconsistency about this, which is garbage--they have done brilliantly. Got a slow start, for obvious reasons. And the media only started paying any attention to him recently.
Remember Bernie runs on a platform of campaign finance reform. He is acutely aware of the issues. Acutely.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)He was bragging about the incredible amount of money he has raised, so Rachel asked him if he would help with the other tickets (like Hillary has).
He mumbled how he needed the money and a vague "We'll see"
He hasn't helped so far, and it looks like he wont.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)he will need a LOT of money. Right now that is hard to predict.
"We'll see" means if he wins the nomination he will do whatever he can (financially) to help.
Bernie doesn't make promises he can't keep and right now he's not sure. I would think you could see that as honorable.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)He was bragging to Maddow about the enormous amount of money he had raised. That's why Maddow asked him if he would share some of that enormous wealth.
And the fact is, he pledged he would help other Democrats. But he has failed to do so. So, he made a promise he CAN keep. He is just choosing no to keep it.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)OK everybody thinks it's fine for Hillary and her deep pockets to do this--to pay for support, to buy votes up front--but how do we like it when the Kochs or Art Popes fund their candidates up front to buy states? No difference.
Now you may argue that she had no choice but to do it, or you may admire that she did--but Sanders is taking the route that is consistent with getting big corporate money out of American elections. He is showing that it can be done. This is the amazing thing about Sanders campaign.
--------------
Please read the following--This is how the Clintons did it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-02-03/clinton-rakes-in-millions-through-state-channels
Clinton's move last year to lock in fundraising alliances with 33 state Democratic parties has already added $26.9 million to the mountain of hard money she has raised so far, a Bloomberg analysis of Federal Election Commission filings shows. Bernie Sanders, her competitor for the nomination, has inked one such deal, netting a total of $1,000.
The agreements, thanks to a 2014 U.S. Supreme Court decision, make it possible for major donors to give hundreds of thousands of dollars in hard money to a candidacy, amounts far greater than the $2,700 limit on contributions directly to a campaign.
At least 24 donors have given $300,000 or more to the fundraising vehicle, known as the Hillary Victory Fund, including Haim and Cheryl Saban, George Soros and Daniel Abraham, longtime donors to both Bill and Hillary Clinton's political campaigns and the Clinton Foundation. The only other way to make such large contributions is through outside groups, such as super-PACs, which can take unlimited donations but can't coordinate with the candidate.
Under the agreements, the first $2,700 of a contribution goes straight to Clinton's campaign, the next $33,400 to the Democratic National Committee, and the remainder is split evenly across the 33 often cash-strapped state committees. Unlike super-PAC donations, the money can be spent to directly support her campaign on anything from get-out-the-vote efforts to TV ads.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)........meaning "yes, depending how it goes" --which is the only honest reply Sanders can give while he is still running for the nomination and spending big money right now. Nothing to pick on about his reply. Of course he allies with and benefits from the Dem party and will honor that. He made that clear.
Bernie wants the whole system to work better, for people, not only corporations. You have read the feelings of those in this thread who want their money to go for Sanders campaign, NOT into the coffers of the DNC. His supporters have given him the chance to run the honest way--in order to show that it can be done. We need campaign finance limits and we need them NOW. This is the brilliance of his campaign. He walks the talk.
You sidestepped the issue of how Hillary & Co. did a "pre-paid" push to ensure she gets the nomination --feeding millions into her campaign and the DNC. This was not legal before 2014.
She did it the RethugliCon way. Which you may think is fine.
Sanders is running on the platform of getting the big money interests under control so the (R) Kochs and the (D) Soroses cannot literally buy states and influence elections. But Hillary is perpetuating that --these ways of the past, not the future. Hillary and Co are not in a political position to make changes. The corporates--the 1%--have her exactly where they want her. It's very obvious that she is beholden to them, so it appears that she is lying when she says she cares about us little people. We see through that. She may "care" in her heart but she can't help us. She has to serve her masters. They pull her strings.
It is time (past time) for movement towards something more equitable now--the people see what is going on and they don't like it. Better to address it now with Sanders in office, than with further paralysis of government and continued exploitation of the middle class and poor, who will never benefit from the system as it is. Hillary makes promises to the people that she cannot keep. If she gets the presidency, you will see this more clearly.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)I'd rather my donations go to my candidate for now. He needs it more at this point.
renate
(13,776 posts)My sweet daughter insisted on giving him a donation out of her allowance because she loves Bernie, not some other random Democrat. It would be wrong and dishonest to take the decision out of her hands about who gets that money.
I've never thought any politician should be obliged to share their donations--just the opposite, actually. Maybe corporations make political donations to get political favors, but individuals made donations because they believe in that particular candidate.
debunction.junction
(127 posts)Over and over when I hear of another Hillary endorsement, they say "negotiations have been going on for a while." Negotiations? Seriously, what is there to negotiate? Either you believe someone is the best candidate or you do not. Or is it that my vote goes to the highest bidder?
Is there a list somewhere of those who have endorsed Bernie? Anyone who wants to endorse Bernie will get a donation from me for their campaign. There are probably a few thousand others who would do the same.
mythology
(9,527 posts)how can you claim that she's inspiring people to stay home, but the guy who has fewer pledged delegates and fewer popular votes is inspiring people to turn out?
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)for a primary with just Clinton running? How many aren't that interested in adding to her vote totals in Novmeber? How many are independents?
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,183 posts)They were asleep during civics class when the subject was the three branches of government.
kcjohn1
(751 posts)People don't donate to Sanders, they donate to his cause.
I for sure will never donate to this version of the DNC. Most of them would be lucky to get my vote yet alone any penny of mine.
Donations to Sanders is different from all other donations to other politicians....because Bernie.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Once the nominee, his coattails will do more to help other democrats than Hillary's. Also, the democratic party is supposed to do that. I'm not sure you all understand the system... Or are you just trying to find picky stuff to keep the negativity going?
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)..and their moderate Wall Street coddling, corporate tax and trade friendly policies.. We are fed up with the rejection of the New Deal bedrock principles we grew up with.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)Bernie is not that candidate.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)about helping his "fellow" Democrats. Helping the down ticket goes without saying.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)If Hillary is spending her money on other dems, then I guess she's making sure big money has a lot of poeple in their pockets.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Some do, and maybe I'll send some money their way.
But that's the decision of individuals.
MattP
(3,304 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)Asking Bernie about the funds that are strictly given to support Bernie for president at this point is pathetic, considering where Hillary's money is coming from.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)You know, he isn't going to be elected KING
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)Don't hold your breath. Those on the other side of the aisle will not work with her.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)and they get this done together. She's working hard for her and the other Democratic candidates.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)then walk away into the sunset to enjoy the spoils from all of her I-promise-you Wall Street speeches.
The status quo needs a lot of fixing & it isn't Hillary who is willing to try to fix it.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)You are way off here, somewhere far, far away from the issue
pacalo
(24,721 posts)I'm not trying to satisfy your agenda with my answer; I wrote what I was inspired by you to write.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Like Fracking, regime change, keystone, TPP, all the good stuff democrats want lol
pacalo
(24,721 posts)WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)I don't think so. I think he'll have as much or more trouble with the other side of the aisle.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)considering she inspires only those she already has? How does she get anything passed with a gop congress, because she isn't bringing new blood into the game.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Granted it is difficult to flip the House of Representatives, but Democrats need to at least try boosting candidates.
dchill
(38,529 posts)It's called turnout. This thread is full of the politically challenged.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)And if we want to talk turnout, Sanders hasn't exactly brought many new people to the polls like Obama did in 2008. If he did he wouldn't trailing in the primary right now.
dchill
(38,529 posts)Plus, as I'm sure you'd be the first to point out, it's about delegates, not popular votes. Dems da berries.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)More fracking? Never knew a dem to run on the polluting our water platform. More regime change? I hope not. Can she help get us the 15 minimum wage? Oh wait, she already sacrificed that one before the fight began. Maybe single payer? Oh wait she sacrificed that one as well. He will help fundraise for dems I am certain if he loses, but truly take the time and tell me what part of Hillary's message inspires you to support her? Is it her free trade positions like NAFTA and being recently for TPP? Is it her answer of not taking a position regarding keystone until the president did? Tell me which of these polices actually make her progressive. What makes her a progressive? What is inspiring about the status quo?
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)#3 He never said he wouldn't help but you don't help others until you get the nomination yourself. Do you much about campaigns? Who has Hillary helped with her Goldman Sachs money?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)to Sanders?
They don't need "coattails" they need MONEY to un their campaigns
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Give me some facts and I might change my mind. But Bernie doesn't have the big pockets or the free media, so he needs to do more on the ground campaigning and he needs paid-for medial. This is the stupidest interview question in a campaign I have ever heard and I am not a young person. And Rachel gave you the bait and you are running with it.
It is a stupid question and anyone with a brain should be able to figure that out. This is unbelievable.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)the 50 state strategy. He clearly said that. He said he didn't like the way that some states have more power than others. He intends to help if he gets the nomination.
If you really like for big money to control elections then I invite you to see how you would like living in North Carolina.
We have to STOP acting like RepubliCons re campaign financing in the Dem party.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)I guess he needs to teach Americans civics.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)The money I send each month for Bernie is done automatically, but I plan to cut it off when he no longer needs it.
I will contribute to the Democratic Party when it reflects the same principles that drew me to join when I turned 18.
Bernie Sanders is the only one who speaks for me that I trust.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)such attitude won't win him any followers. Pettiness is very unbecoming
pacalo
(24,721 posts)I see it everyday when Hillary supporters act as buzz-kills in Bernie threads.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)NOT......
That's the point. I didn't send money to Bernie to support the same system that is suppressing positive progressive and liberal change.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)He's running on the Democratic ticket, using Democratic resources, receiving Democratic votes....
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)not democratic. his votes also come from independents, dems who long left the third way wing, disenfranchised voters. That's the difference Hillary gets dem votes and dem votes only.
LuvLoogie
(7,027 posts)and political Lookie Loos.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)And this is why she struggles with independents etc. Your attitude right there. The can't do attitude. The obsession with party only is not the way to grow it. I've been a democrat my whole life, I didn't marry them. I signed no loyalty oath to a bad platform? Did You? I never signed on to support fracking. I never signed on to support an adopted platform. I signed on for them to be real, one is , one isn't. Sdly the one who isn't in line with my democratic principles is the "frontrunner"
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)democrat I am. that's her problem though.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)He has given Democrats another vote in the House, &, most particularly, in the Senate when every vote was precious to the party. He earned the right to run on the Democratic ticket.
One thing I'm not is an ingrate who steps on those who have helped my cause.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...I think he was very restrained in his response to Rachel's loaded question(s).
..
pacalo
(24,721 posts)What a tool she turned out to be! She was among the very last I would have expected to sell out her principles.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)Most are a bunch of DINOs who subscribe to the DLC/Third Way mantra. I donate separately and selectively to progressive Dems I want to support like Lucy Flores, Tim Canova, Pramila Jayapal, and Zephyr Teachout
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)It's about Bernie and his inability or unwillingness to help his "fellow" Democrats.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)To give to the DNC (I am an itemized donor to Sanders). Majority of the DNC establishment are DINOs, at least from the perspective of a progressive.
Nope I don't want my money going to the DNC. I will give my money to the candidates I support.
Logical
(22,457 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Someone like Teachout is in a competitive district that is winnable and will need all the help she can get. There is no denying that she is progressive, yet Sanders hasn't lifted a finger to help her out.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)...to secure the nomination for president against the most well oiled political machine of modern times. I'll cut him some slack if he doesn't have the time and energy to devote to helping down ticket candidates at the moment. When he secures the nomination I will fully expect him to support progressives down ticket.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)He will support all Dems if he gets the nomination.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)dollar checks.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)I can do that.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Maybe that will help. But I guess you could take the Clooney money, and Goldman Sachs, maybe some fracking money, and private prison money, these are after all, new liberal positions.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Do any of you know who GP is even talking about? You gotta get informed!
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)once we defeat Hillary and give a swift kick to her Third Way/New Dem/ Dems for the Leisure Class backers... SO BUG OFF!!!
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)I have a can of Raid for you. I don't understand why you are not upset that Bernie says he may or may not help "other" Democrats. Since he is running as a Democrat.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts).that is indeed how it is. We are not raising money from the billionaires and Wall Street, and with our limited resources trying to fight the establishment, at this moment we cannot afford to contribute to the very people trying to snuff us out? Makes no sense. We can help one another later.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)They think they can shot progressives in the foot with their New Dem ideology and then they have the audacity to ask us to pay for the bullet.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)that's like Trump building the wall and Mexico's gonna pay for it. Good point.
We get treated like we don't count --and then we're supposed to fund the party that treats us like we don't count.
-------
IF Bernie gets the nomination, THEN the money will be more available.
Actually this IS how it's been done in the past--money flows to other Dems AFTER the nomination.
For Hillary to have dumped money into the DNC and state races already....well, that's buying votes, basically.
Response to marions ghost (Reply #98)
lunamagica This message was self-deleted by its author.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)dchill
(38,529 posts)Somehow...
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)I think he believes that he can issue executive orders to implement his entire platform and completely ignore Congress. There is only so much that can be done with executive orders...
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)..which is working so hard to support Hillary right now...that we are going to help in November..
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,183 posts)and wags his finger and poof! It all gets done,
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)And how much is going to any candidate that is not a super-delegate for Hillary?
Interesting eh?
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)a better return on the investment...
OK everybody thinks it's fine for Hillary and her deep pockets to do this--how do we like it when the Kochs or Art Popes fund their candidates up front to buy states?
--------------
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-02-03/clinton-rakes-in-millions-through-state-channels
Clinton's move last year to lock in fundraising alliances with 33 state Democratic parties has already added $26.9 million to the mountain of hard money she has raised so far, a Bloomberg analysis of Federal Election Commission filings shows. Bernie Sanders, her competitor for the nomination, has inked one such deal, netting a total of $1,000.
The agreements, thanks to a 2014 U.S. Supreme Court decision, make it possible for major donors to give hundreds of thousands of dollars in hard money to a candidacy, amounts far greater than the $2,700 limit on contributions directly to a campaign.
At least 24 donors have given $300,000 or more to the fundraising vehicle, known as the Hillary Victory Fund, including Haim and Cheryl Saban, George Soros and Daniel Abraham, longtime donors to both Bill and Hillary Clinton's political campaigns and the Clinton Foundation. The only other way to make such large contributions is through outside groups, such as super-PACs, which can take unlimited donations but can't coordinate with the candidate.
Under the agreements, the first $2,700 of a contribution goes straight to Clinton's campaign, the next $33,400 to the Democratic National Committee, and the remainder is split evenly across the 33 often cash-strapped state committees. Unlike super-PAC donations, the money can be spent to directly support her campaign on anything from get-out-the-vote efforts to TV ads.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Show me the money being spent...
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)ESPECIALLY applies to the Clintons.....
I hate to compare them to the Kochs because after all they are more on our side, but we DON'T like this when the Rethugs do it. It's buying influence. Especially predatory when the state parties are so hard up and campaigns are costing megazillions.
Bernie is creating a more level playing field, and people don't even see the benefits of it. That's how far gone this country is.
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)Jennylynn
(696 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)look at this face would I lie.?
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)I truly feel for the people who have bought into his act. In reality, though, his whole "independent" schtick has always been about standing out from the crowd and maximizing his leverage. It's never been about principle - only grandstanding and perpetuating his whole act.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)jane123
(34 posts)He is running his campaign from his supporters small donations, not Wall Street and big campaign contributors. He is not doing thousand dollar a plate fundraisers..his priority is and has always been winning the nomination and using his contributions wisely....any reasonable person would understand that he will do whatever he can to help down ticket dems but he needs to win the nomination. It is easier for Hillary because, clearly, she doesn't care where her money comes from and I guess that's okay with her supporters.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)..and that hasn't happened yet.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Jennylynn
(696 posts)When I asked, "Did he (Bernie) say why? In another post. I already knew his why answer. I wanted to see if anyone would answer it honestly unlike Maddow and her news crew tonight on a different subject. You nailed his answer! Thank you!
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)Won't give progressive Democrats the time of day or any help to the more progressive Dems running for office. Has done all sorts of things to hinder his campaign and you wonder why most of us progressive dems want little or nothing to do with the DNC? if you are wondering about sources just read the Nation or go thru the Nation archives. I've run a Nation discussion group for 12 years the story about the DNC backstabbing are endless.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)He made the decision to run as a Democrat. Bernie has raised alot of money, he brags about it all the time.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Let the supers do whatever they want.
If they decide to reverse the results of the human sized delegates then that's their choice. Voters will take that into consideration in the future.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)with him not supporting them. I imagine he will help out some.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)with the democrats and been a reliable vote for them. Then there are elected democrats who say they don't know who he is.
obamneycare
(40 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Sounded pretty arrogant and cocky. I was surprised he said it that way while his campaign tries to woo super delegates.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Sanders isn't fit to lead a party he wants to starve to death.
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)LexVegas
(6,094 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... no wonder that NONE of his colleagues have endorsed him.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)the take away I get from your post is this:
Politics...it's about Party, and Party is about money.
Nothing in there about issues, integrity, record, etc.
Okay.
FYI: I'm a Democrat. I've never, not once, donated money to "the party." My donations all go for candidates. Outside of presidential candidates, most of my donations go to local and state candidates, with, when I can, a bit of money sent out of state to others. Most recently that was Chuy Garcia and Zephyr Teachout.
I'm about issues. I support Democrats who get the issues right.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)was paid off by donors. So she raised money to give away to enhance her network of support, spent until she was in the red and then raised more money.
Who actually supported the Party and other candidates? The donors. Who sort of brokered that money? Hillary's campaign. Is that really all that impressive?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)engage in that kind of thing are not capable of leading a political party. They are much better suited to being college professors, media talking heads, and backbencher legislators from sparsely populated states.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Clinton can go to big money fundraisers for herself , and throw some remaining crumbs to other Democrats after she has taken her vig.
But Sanders has had to overcome the resistance of that same inbred crowd, and he has gotten actual grass roots people to fund his campaign.
They (we) are funding HIM and the movement he represents.
If I want to send money to otehr Democrats, that's a seperate decision. Right now the focus is on this primary race.
randome
(34,845 posts)Even if he doesn't have the money right now, why not use his influence to support other Progressive candidates? We've heard so often at DU how the bully pulpit is the single most effective weapon in his arsenal. So why isn't he using it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]