It just gets wilder and wilder.

questionable antics and results. With Hillary still, to my knowledge, not saying anything about the weird and obviously wrong Arizona process. If this is so, just another clear example that karma can be a bitter pill to swallow.

they should be.

Who's been repeatedly sending out mailers with such disinformation to Sanders supporters?

We know the Sanders campaign isn't doing this kind of stuff. So this would just mean that most likely they sent the wrong message to their own followers and it backfired.

Even if that is the case too, that was a LOT of people that didn't bother showing up. I think it speaks to the enthusiasm gap.

Given those two thoughts, I think it's perfectly reasonable for some to be happy about this result.

It was to Clinton followers. I never denied that. I just said that given the current history of Sanders supporters receiving those types of things, it's not something to feel bad about when it backfires on Hillary.

If team Hillary didn't do that then whose fault is that. Now, I think we have proof someone is playing around so find out who is doing that then I will direct my outrage to that party. I guess long story short is no I am not thrilled. But, I don't blame Bernie or our supporters for this I don't even blame team Hillary for it, except that nothing stopped them from making calls.

They are still working making sure the delegates show up.

The caucuses are over, their job isn't.

Hillary supporters are asking for a criminal investigation. This is a felony

Bernie supporters were smart enough to hang in there. But this is not a good win.

Caucuses have to go.

-- and every single election year there is crap like this out there, sometimes in the form of telling Democrats that they vote on a different election day -- but why wasn't the Hillary campaign organized enough themselves to call their delegates and tell them the flyer had bad information?

The flyer's misinformation was bad. But that only one campaign seemed to catch it and try to correct things with there delegates is a completely separate issue.

a Hillary supporting official trying to exclude Bernie's delegates, so we need to get to the bottom of it. I'm not sure what power Bernie has in this situation, but he should at least speak to the issue and encourage delegates to vote in a way that represents the outcome of the caucus.

Is this something SEIU circulated? They're Hillary supporters. They wouldn't register delegates, then intentionally give them the wrong instructions.

It was a Sanders supporter

https://www.reddit.com/r/hillaryclinton/comments/4d4s24/update_from_clark_county_convention_in_las_vegas/


This has been happening and we are getting blamed. That's why we have to secure WI tight

Clark County Democratic Party Executive Board

Chris Miller, Chair

6233 Dean Martin Dr.

Las Vegas, NV 89118

gmail.com

Re: Removal of Christine Kramer as Credentials Chair

Dear Chair Miller:

I write as general counsel to Hillary for America to request the immediate removal of Christine Kramar as Credentials Chair of the Clark County Democratic Convention to take place this Saturday, April 2. Throughout Hillary for America’s attempts to engage with Ms. Kramar regarding the credentialing of convention delegates and other matters, Ms. Kramar has publicly engaged in a series of egregious, disruptive and biased behavior that irreparably undermines her credibility to administer a fair and successful convention on Saturday.

First, in an email sent today, March 30, Ms. Kramar exposed confidential Hillary for America (“HFA”) campaign information and data by unilaterally adding a representative of Senator Sanders’ campaign into a chain of email correspondence between HFA, the Clark County Democratic Party and the Nevada State Democratic Party. As you know, the confidentiality and propriety of data is paramount to any campaign. Ms. Kramar’s carelessness – or worse – in exposing HFA’s data is plainly unacceptable and must not be tolerated.

Second, in another email sent today to both campaigns, Ms. Kramar engaged in a series of unwarranted and inexcusable personal attacks against HFA representatives, and frivolously accused HFA of engaging in unethical practices in its preparation for Saturday’s convention. Indeed, it is apparent from Ms. Kramar’s email that she is advocating for positions in her role as credentials chair based on candidate-specific grounds, rather than making impartial decisions that are in the best interest of the tens of thousands of Clark County Democrats who turned out to caucus last month and who wish to participate as delegates to the Clark County Democratic Convention. Ms. Kramer’s behavior is at odds with the values of Nevada Democrats and the spirit of the primary campaign between Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders.

In her latest email to both HFA and the Sanders campaign regarding the credentialing of delegates, Ms. Kramar issued HFA an ultimatum: either the county convention proceed on Saturday under the terms agreed upon by both campaigns or the convention be delayed for further discussion and resolution of various credentialing rules. To be clear: it is and always has been HFA’s position that the Clark County Democratic Convention proceed as scheduled and under the agreed-upon rules and procures. However, it is my strong belief that Ms. Kramar’s behavior demonstrate that she is not suited to administer the convention in an impartial way according to those rules and procedures. As a result, I respectfully request that this board immediately relieve Ms. Kramer from playing any role related to the credentialing of delegates or any other party procedures to take place at this Saturday’s county convention.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if it would be helpful to discuss this matter further.

Very truly yours,

Marc E. Elias

General Counsel to Hillary for America

Arguably, we have never heard Ms Kramer's side to this story. I would really like to.

They make a point about the importance of data security while their candidate tries to downplay how.little regard she gave that issue as sos

It's somewhat dramatic as it shows Ms. Kramar squaring off against her accusers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511633669

This whole situation is rather confusing. Having been an Independent most of my life, I've never followed primaries or caucuses much. But it seems to me that this is a very confusing way to nominate a candidate.

That's a printed piece that was distributed.

And we need to have some accountability and oversight for the whole process, I don't really trust any of it.

Both the Clinton and the Sanders campaign should call for an investigation of where this letter originated. And if it came from either campaign, anyone involved should be fired. If it came from surrogates, they should be denounced and any donations returned.

I was there as a delegate. I got the same e-mail that was posted above and immediately contacted the Bernie campaign because it was such an obvious error. There were several errors I posted about here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511617463 I was not Bernie's campaign who wrote these confusing e-mails.

Hillary supporters discriminated against? Check out this video from this morning at the convention:

Please understand. I've never been to a caucus.

When I say "dirty " and "icky", I mean that it doesn't feel right. It doesn't reflect the vote on election night.

I can assure you, I AM A BERNIE SUPPORTER.

And I promise, we all got the same information from the Clark County Democratic Party but some of us were perhaps more cautious than others.

I'm REALLY not a fan of electronic voting.

in 2008. Check out this Wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Democratic_caucuses,_2008

Clinton won the caucus at the precinct level 51/45, Obama gained on her in the county convention (like they had today where Bernie gained) 51/49. He passed her in the State Convention 55/45.

This was not dirty or icky. Everyone got the same flyer. Some of the Clinton people did not show up (others did). You can't have your vote counted if you are not there. The Sanders team had a better ground game today. They followed up with their people and made sure they were there. The Clinton people obviously did not follow up with their delegates. That is not the fault of the Sanders team.

I also just read that Clinton flipped Washoe County, so I guess it's just the way caucuses work.

I don't like it though. It's the process that's icky, not the people who are working within the rules.

so the two pretty much determine the state's political leaning.

Something you also need to consider about the Clark County flip is that Reid pushed for caucus locations on the Strip, and many people who were there say that there was little enthusiasm in those locations to be a delegate to the county convention.

I'm not a fan of caucuses, I think they exclude people, but the Democratic Party of Nevada pushed very hard for a caucus instead of a primary, and they are reaping what they sowed.

so their employers saw who they caucused for. I have to wonder whether many who didn't turn up for Hillary today were people who fearing retribution from their employers felt pressured to support Hillary at the caucus but resented it. What is clear is that lack of enthusiasm played a significant role here.

Clearly Bernie's people aware of actual voter suppression that cost Bernie votes were on their toes. The fact that Hillary's people weren't on their toes speaks volumes about their assumption that they have nothing to worry about.

Stop excusing

Bernie's people were NOT the only ones contacted. This letter was handed out to Clinton supporters at the SEIU pre-registration on Friday.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

*IF* you check-in or register as a delegate *ON* Friday April 1st...

That is a pretty big qualifier.

ETA: I want to know if the no-shows actually checked-in or registered on the 1st. Or, if they took no action at all because they didn't understand what was printed.

Makes me question OP motives.

.

Voter suppression, anywhere, for or against any candidate, is wrong.

Creampuff compared to the western states caucuses or voter/amazing race/obstacle course. If it was only Iowa that would be OK because if tradition.

I do so love karma.

I don't want Sanders to win Nevada with fewer votes, especially if there was a dirty trick, but even if that posting about caucus rules was an honest mistake.

Next time, I want the Democratic nominee chosen by the popular vote.

No skewing based on precinct, county, or Congressional District.

No multi-level caucuses being used to determine the nominee.

No delegates. No super delegates.

This has been discussed in other threads tonight.

Here is one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511634159

Remember the snarky people saying Clinton "stole" the AZ primary and that "caucuses can't be stolen"? Now we have people cheering the potential for a flip of the delegate count (which will probably happen unless Clinton decides that it's worth starting a special bylaws committee under the rules to force appropriate national delegate votes).

Also, expect to be banned from the Sanders group any moment now.

I posted this above you at #48 but I'm re-posting for you.

Caucuses are nasty business all around. They're corrupt to the core. So much shenanigans can go on. So many people disenfranchised.

You can't do that with caucuses because they're ad hoc nonsense.

I guess it's just caucuses. I don't like it one bit.

I won't get banned. They know me there.

I'd denounce any Clinton supporter saying that they're happy about that, too.

Haven't looked at the totals, just analysis of Clark County, the result there was admittedly spectacular, but rife with BS. Took 8 hours, people were wrongly instructed they'd have to pay ( donations were accepted but if you didn't have the money you could still go in), the crappy mailers that were misleading.

Once you register (which requires listing a preference) you are officially on the books. You do not need to attend beyond registration to have your vote counted. You only need to attend the actual event if you

A) Choose to change your preference

and/or

B) Choose to vote on who will be a delegate moving on to the state convention.



Here is the actual process. The information you're looking for is on pages 9 and 10. It begins at

This thread has me scratching my head.

Is that the Bernie camp is on high alert after some shenanigans in the Iowa County Conventions a few weeks ago.

I think that situation put the Sanders campaign on high alert regarding these caucuses. I think they are taking NOTHING for granted and that they are VERY plugged into and involved in the caucus process--to lessen the shenanigans.

I heard that Bernie had attorneys at these NV County Conventions. He didn't do this in Iowa. However, the Polk County Convention was a shit show. Bernie Tweeted about it and said that Clinton was trying to steal Polk County.

It was a really rough day. 117 Clinton delegates didn't show up for their Polk County Convention. She had initially won Polk County, the most populous county in Iowa. However, Bernie was ahead in the delegate count at the County Convention. Long story short--we were kept there for 12 1/2 hours--counting and waiting around and counting and waiting around. The final count put Clinton in the lead, because more Sanders supporters left. A Bernie Chair said he witnessed a Hillary Chair telling Bernie delegates that they were free to go--the process was finished. But the process wasn't finished. And Bernie lost delegates. So, there were shenanigans.

In Nevada--it appears that the Nevada Dem Party sent out that disinformation. I imagine that some Bernie supporters alerted the campaign about this, and that the Sanders campaign worked hard to counter the disinformation.

I know in Iowa, we are working like dogs to get our Bernie delegates to the next Convention. We've all seen the cheating and suppression in so many states. We are staying in contact with fellow delegates and doing everything to ensure a great turnout for Bernie.

I think all in the Bernie campaign are on a heightened state of alert. So when a dirty trick or even an error goes out in a flyer--people alert the campaign and Bernie is on the case.

That's my guess.

It was a disaster!!

I think your assessment is absolutely right. I sort of wish I could delete this thread now, but there is so much discussion, perhaps it is good.

I'm afraid it shows my own ignorance about the caucus process. I do believe the final result should reflect the initial vote. This flipping is so bizarre.

But, Bernie supporters worked very hard for this win and my intention was never to diss them or their efforts.

Thank you, CoffeeCat for working so hard in Iowa!

There were complaints about problems in the first caucus votes and now complaints about this.

I am wondering whether the Nevada system permits or encourages people to vote twice.

Seems to me that the problem is with the Nevada system.

A voter could vote at the caucus and then show up to vote at this convention.

Maybe that is the intention.

Same for the superdelegates. They could vote twice -- once in their state's caucus or primary and then separately as superdelegates at the convention. And at the convention their one superdelegate vote counts more than many, many of the voters at a primary or caucus.

Not a democratic system. From one end to the other this system has serious problems if there is to be even a pretense of democracy.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Caucuses, superdelegates, never ending campaigning, the absurd amount of money involved, and...well almost everything. It all needs to go.

It needs to be reformed and made more democratic, more transparent, and much much shorter.[/font]