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Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 02:41 PM Apr 2016

Sorry, Bernie. The Supers are not switching to you.

The Democratic party has Super Delegates in order to ensure that elected Dems and other top Dems have a say in who wins the party's nomination for president. This encourages presidential candidates to build relationships with other Dems.

Say you're a Dem senator from a red state or a swing state. The Dem's nominee for president can either make or break your candidacy for your election. Shouldn't that Dem senator have a say in who gets the nomination. Look at the Senate Republican candidates freaking out over having Donald Trump at the top of their ticket.

Bernie also likes to cite the Supers switching to Obama as it became clear that he had a majority of the delegates prior to the Dem convention in 2008. What he fails to mention is that from 2004 through 2008, Obama campaigned for and raised money for several congressional Dems in the 2006 mid-term which resulted in huge blowout wins for the party in that year. Another example is Elizabeth Warren who fund raises and supports other Dems wherever she can. In contrast, Bernie has not raised a single dime for any other Dem.

Progressive senators like Sherrod Brown, who represents a major swing state, OH, knows this. He's a super delegate, and he supports Hillary. He needs support from the national party to hold onto his seat.

In our system, a president has very limited power to get anything done domestically. S/he needs congress to draft and pass legislation in order to get anything accomplished. You want to make public colleges free? That bill has to originate from the House of Representatives. If you don't have a majority there, it's not going to get done.

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Sorry, Bernie. The Supers are not switching to you. (Original Post) Yavin4 Apr 2016 OP
See 2008, dozens flipped from Clinton. CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #1
See my post explaining where I explain why that happened in 2008. Yavin4 Apr 2016 #6
This isn't 2008. nt BreakfastClub Apr 2016 #23
YOU THINK THAT THERE MAY BE A REASON ALL OF THESE "SUPER DELEGATES" WENT WITH HILLARY? CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #29
So, IOW - the PARTY selects the candidate. Hmmm...got it. nt jonno99 Apr 2016 #2
No, party leaders have a say in who gets the nomination for president. n/t Yavin4 Apr 2016 #8
The OP says the party elites are there to block nominees who they think are too liberal, right? morningfog Apr 2016 #14
My exact quote. Yavin4 Apr 2016 #16
You implied it by referring to red state Dems. morningfog Apr 2016 #18
You interpreted my implication. Yavin4 Apr 2016 #19
I'm sure you are glad. Authoritarians live undemocratic process. morningfog Apr 2016 #44
If they want a say noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #30
I am voting for Hillary because she won't raise my expectations... Human101948 Apr 2016 #3
whats wrong with the better things in Barack Obamas term? MFM008 Apr 2016 #33
Absolutely...but I think we can do better... Human101948 Apr 2016 #34
Polled them have you? cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #4
Didn't have to. 400+ have gone on the record stating that they're for Hillary. n/t Yavin4 Apr 2016 #11
How many of the where bribed? Gwhittey Apr 2016 #22
Plus.. fun n serious Apr 2016 #5
if Bernie goes into the convention with a pledged delegate lead ibegurpard Apr 2016 #7
But he won't have the pledged delegate lead Yavin4 Apr 2016 #9
I guess we'll see won't we? ibegurpard Apr 2016 #12
they will switch if he can win among pledged delegates JI7 Apr 2016 #10
Very nice Yavin4 rock Apr 2016 #13
Thanks for the support. Yavin4 Apr 2016 #17
A little bribery goes a long way. bobbobbins01 Apr 2016 #15
Was it bribery when Obama campaigned and fund raised for Dems in 2004 and 2006? Yavin4 Apr 2016 #21
Dunno...haven't looked into it. bobbobbins01 Apr 2016 #24
So it's not really about democracy, it's about cronyism, and scratching each other's back?? reformist2 Apr 2016 #20
unfortunately it is. i also DesertFlower Apr 2016 #32
From the OP: "The Democratic party has Super Delegates in order to ensure that... Miles Archer Apr 2016 #45
Yeah, real sorry. Cha Apr 2016 #25
They need support from the party? daleanime Apr 2016 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Apr 2016 #27
Oh Please Help Me noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #35
How about the voters deciding no matter who? marlakay Apr 2016 #28
We'll know how the superdelegates will vote CanadaexPat Apr 2016 #31
If he does win the pledged delegates, and supers pick Hillary TDale313 Apr 2016 #36
Exactly. OnionPatch Apr 2016 #43
We have a two fold process to select our nominee Lucinda Apr 2016 #37
Tell me how many times in history the super delegates went against the voters. We'll wait. Nt eqfan592 Apr 2016 #39
There is no such thing as going against the voters. The votes belong to the SD's but Lucinda Apr 2016 #46
Nonsense eqfan592 Apr 2016 #38
We have a winner! Newkularblue Apr 2016 #41
Why do you hate democracy? Odin2005 Apr 2016 #40
Bernie's not stupid. Which he would have to be to give money to people who oppose him. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #42

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
29. YOU THINK THAT THERE MAY BE A REASON ALL OF THESE "SUPER DELEGATES" WENT WITH HILLARY?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:10 PM
Apr 2016

See if you find their rationale in "The $Numbers$?

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
14. The OP says the party elites are there to block nominees who they think are too liberal, right?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:13 PM
Apr 2016

It's undemocratic. Let the people decide and if the party needs to adjust so be it.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
16. My exact quote.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:54 PM
Apr 2016
The Democratic party has Super Delegates in order to ensure that elected Dems and other top Dems have a say in who wins the party's nomination for president.


Did I say anything about blocking Liberals? No. For instance, what if Donald Trump ran as a Dem and he brought in new people and was leading the delegate race. Wouldn't you want there to be a way to thwart his rise?
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
18. You implied it by referring to red state Dems.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 05:01 PM
Apr 2016

We know how you feel about the role of super delegates.

Your trump reference is pure straw. The supers are there as a safety valve against a nominee too liberal for the centrist Dems party insiders.

They are undemocratic in theory and irrelevant in practice.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
19. You interpreted my implication.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 05:49 PM
Apr 2016

My whole point was that Dems need to feel comfortable and confident with their presidential nominee which is why they have a say in who gets it.

I'm glad that we have Super Delegates.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
44. I'm sure you are glad. Authoritarians live undemocratic process.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 09:55 PM
Apr 2016

Why even let the people vote?

The super dupers know what's best for us little folk.

noretreatnosurrender

(1,890 posts)
30. If they want a say
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:11 PM
Apr 2016

they can vote in their caucus or primary. Why do they get 2 votes? Doesn't seem very democratic does it?

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
3. I am voting for Hillary because she won't raise my expectations...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 02:47 PM
Apr 2016

I am super enthusiastic about her plan to keep everything the same!

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
33. whats wrong with the better things in Barack Obamas term?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:13 PM
Apr 2016

Some things the same are a damn good idea.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
34. Absolutely...but I think we can do better...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:15 PM
Apr 2016

and it is disappointing to be told to settle for crumbs.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
7. if Bernie goes into the convention with a pledged delegate lead
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 02:50 PM
Apr 2016

And supers flip it say goodbye to this election. I would say the same if Hillary goes in with the lead in pledged delegates.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
9. But he won't have the pledged delegate lead
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 02:52 PM
Apr 2016

That's the whole point. He has to win on average 56% to 44% from here on out just to tie in pledged delegates.

JI7

(89,262 posts)
10. they will switch if he can win among pledged delegates
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 02:52 PM
Apr 2016

Which is why they switched to Obama in 2008

rock

(13,218 posts)
13. Very nice Yavin4
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:11 PM
Apr 2016

Both the OP and the responses you provided. I believe you've made a solid case for your point. Thanks.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
17. Thanks for the support.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:55 PM
Apr 2016

I posted a scenario up thread. What if Donald Trump ran as a Dem? What if he brought in new voters and was leading in the delegate race?

Wouldn't people want some way to thwart him?

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
15. A little bribery goes a long way.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:14 PM
Apr 2016

But they're all opportunists...if they see the tide turning they'll jump ship.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
21. Was it bribery when Obama campaigned and fund raised for Dems in 2004 and 2006?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 05:54 PM
Apr 2016

All of which helped Dems to have majorities in the House and Senate in 2009? Which then lead to the passage of the ACA?

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
24. Dunno...haven't looked into it.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 06:16 PM
Apr 2016

But I know what I just called bribery was bribery, thats what matters.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
32. unfortunately it is. i also
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:12 PM
Apr 2016

think caucuses are undemocratic, but nothing i can do about it. it's up to the states.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
45. From the OP: "The Democratic party has Super Delegates in order to ensure that...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 09:57 PM
Apr 2016
...elected Dems and other top Dems have a say in who wins the party's nomination for president."

So yes, you are correct.

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
26. They need support from the party?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 07:49 PM
Apr 2016

But not from voters?



Fair enough, we'll just have to hope for the best.

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

noretreatnosurrender

(1,890 posts)
35. Oh Please Help Me
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:16 PM
Apr 2016

Super Delegates. Help me. You must take 2 votes in the Presidential election to save the people from themselves. Vote in your state's caucus or primary and then take an extra vote at the Convention. It's the only way to save us from the terrible scourge of democracy. One person, one vote is just too horrible to imagine. Save us Super Delegates. Save us from ourselves! Only you know how to save us with your wisdom.

Love the artwork. Is it yours?

marlakay

(11,484 posts)
28. How about the voters deciding no matter who?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:04 PM
Apr 2016

I had a talk with a republican upset with dems over this...what a joke since they are the ones to stop minorities from voting, but they feel they are on the right side with no super delegates.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
36. If he does win the pledged delegates, and supers pick Hillary
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:19 PM
Apr 2016

It will rip this party to shreds. You can't say fuck you to half the party and expect them to continue to support you. If she wins pledged, fine. I won't be thrilled but I'll deal. If the supers decide we're too stupid to pick our nominee, get ready for a mass exodus from the party, cause it will be clear it no longer even pretends to represent its voters.

OnionPatch

(6,169 posts)
43. Exactly.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 09:54 PM
Apr 2016

I can't even count the number of Democrats I know who say they will not vote for Hillary in the event that Bernie wins the popular vote but she's foisted upon us anyway. The Democratic Party will be torn to shreds, you're right. And they will lose in November and possibly for many years after because they will have lost the entire youth vote and many of the rest of us.

If she wins the popular vote, I will hold my nose in Nov. and vote for her. I've been a Democrat for 40 years and have never missed an election. But I wont vote for a party that spits in the face of democracy.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
37. We have a two fold process to select our nominee
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:40 PM
Apr 2016

The people have their say in the primaries which award part of the delegates
The party leadership, people who have worked to build the party and serve their constituents, also are part of the process and have a delegate to award.

It's been working for quite a long time now, but anyone who doesn't like the system, should work within the party to change it.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
46. There is no such thing as going against the voters. The votes belong to the SD's but
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:55 PM
Apr 2016

if you mean show you an election where they all did not switch to the nominee you can start here and work your way back

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

eqfan592

(5,963 posts)
38. Nonsense
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 08:45 PM
Apr 2016

Literally never have the super delegates overrode the selection of the people, and for good reason.

Your inability to recognize that tells me all I need to know on the quality of your opinion on anything else. I wouldn't trust you to point me to a good pizza place, much less on anything like this.

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