2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow come Bernie Sanders never said John Kerry was unqualified to be President?
Kerry voted for the IWR, and he's voted for trade agreements, and he used super pacs.
Or Biden, when he ran in 2008? Biden also voted for the IWR, has supported Trade agreements and used super pacs.
So what's different about Hillary, other than the fact that women are never qualified enough to suit some men?
And no, the answer is NOT some version of "Hillary said it first." Hillary REFUSED to say Bernie was unqualified, despite being pressed three times by a reporter to say it.
From Mediaite:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-lied-hillary-clinton-actually-refused-to-call-him-unqualified-three-times/
Mediaite: Bernie lied! Hillary actually refused to call him unqualified three times.
Democratic presidential candidate and independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders has initiated a mass fainting spell among the political media by rattling off a list of reasons why he considers rival candidate and current frontrunner Hillary Clinton not qualified to be president. The attack has also galvanized Hillarys supporters, who have responded with the trending hashtag #HillarySoQualified. Unlike a lot of pundits, Im not that bothered by the charge, I love a smash-mouth campaign, and if it is indeed to be on like Donkey Kong, Hillary Clinton can handle herself.
What is a problem, though, is that Bernie Sanders launched his attack by first telling a big, fat, insane lie about Hillary. Heres the full context of Bernies remarks, but pay close attention to the first part:
As Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon noted on Twitter, Hillary never said that, but its actually worse than that. Hillary Clinton not only never said that, she actually was aggressively pressed to say that exact thing, three different times in a row, and like some kind of reverse-Apostle Peter, refused each time:
Now, there are actually some Sanders supporters pointing out, with a straight face, that she also didnt say he is qualified, or that what she did say wasnt exactly a compliment, but Ive got news for you guys: Hillary Clinton is Bernies political opponent, it is not her job to compliment him. It also doesnt change the fact that she did not say what he directly quoted her as saying.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)RATM435
(392 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)not enough
dubyadiprecession
(5,720 posts)in the early 70'S. By your insinuation, John Lennon would somehow support Hillary if he was still alive.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Weren't attacking Bernie and telling lies about him.
Kerry was much more professional than the slash-and-burn Clintonists.
Bob41213
(491 posts)That and dancing around calling him unqualified. But maybe it's because he hates women and holds them to a different standard (sarcasm).
Dem2
(8,168 posts)It's what a presidential campaign is about.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Madam Mossfern
(2,340 posts)JudyM
(29,263 posts)*wipes tears from eyes* Wow. I needed a good belly-laugh. Thanks!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Well, sort of . I hate crying "sexism" when there's none.
revbones
(3,660 posts)PufPuf23
(8,811 posts)You know that is not the truth.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Billshit and you know it.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts).
While, pnwmom and you think you are coming to the defense of HRC, studies from the only university specializing in women in politics, the Rutgers-Eagleton Center for American Women and Politics, has compiled research showing that any gendered attack, whether it's to highlight looks, family, begin a woman or man--only has negative effects on one candidate, the female candidate.
You can trash a man's looks, this manner of speech, anything about their physical being and there will be no negative impact at the polls, for a woman, it hurts them by 5 percentage points.
So, you might want to spend a week over at the following site and learn something. If would be better if you have an EDU account and can look at more peer-research as JSTOR and other sites:
http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/
.
awake
(3,226 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)The details for him are unimportant.
awake
(3,226 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)to justify the war?
Not that I heard of it.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)to force inspections and to avoid war.
frylock
(34,825 posts)How many more apologies will we be treated to after a second Clinton presidency?
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...of poor judgement.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)the Clinton Foundation shenanigans, DOMA, DADT, TPP, NAFTA, and other conservative causes.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Your reply sounds like something one might hear her say
frylock
(34,825 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)blabh blah blah female blah blah blah years of experience blah blah blah electable blah blah blah socialist
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...judgement, not a good quality in a president.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)every last one of those who voted for it knew just what they were doing.
The only mistaken thought Hillary had about that vote was that is would make her look tough if she voted to send other people's kids to die for her political career.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)This is the way one uses quotes. Lol.
Thanks for the article. Right on.
JI7
(89,260 posts)And Sanders thinks that's what Hilary said about him even though she didn't.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because he didn't do his homework
JI7
(89,260 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)revmclaren
(2,528 posts)Clinton has working experience in all things political. Sanders is a pure reactionist.
Clinton is winning...Sanders is reacting in the only way he knows how. That is why she WILL win.
A vicious circle with only one logical outcome.
Congrats Madam President.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)JI7
(89,260 posts)You can't expect candidates to read everything.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)despite the fact that they fed him bad information.
At some point, a candidate's fitness to lead is reflected in who they trust to be their senior advisors and leaders.
Hillary's 2008 campaign showed, quite honestly, that she was not ready for the Oval Office. It was a dysfunctional shitshow headed up by Wormtongue himself, Mark Penn.
She's much better this time out.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Sort of proved her point.
awake
(3,226 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)before spouting off in reaction like that.
Headline writers are known for exaggerating and twisting content to get more readers.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)Nevermind all the crap that she said indicating he wasn't qualified or a democrat - he actually used the word! Oh noes!
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)All she said was that he hadn't done his homework on that issue. That does NOT equate to him not being a qualified candidate.
And what she said about his only recently changing to being a Democrat is true.
revbones
(3,660 posts)rather than why he said she was "unqualified". Sort of speaks volumes about how there's no talking point to cover up those faults he exposed huh?
Who really cares about when he was a Democrat? That's kind of childish and ridiculous. Repeating it just says "Hey, I don't care about policies, positions, principles, actions and honesty. I just care about a magic letter behind the name."
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)He said she was unqualified because she voted for the IWR, and supports trade agreements, and had super pacs.
I pointed out that John Kerry had done all those things but Bernie never said HE was unqualified. Same with Joe Biden.
But Bernie only turns on the woman.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Bernie's answer was to a question about Hillary calling him unqualified. Get John Kerry to imply he was unqualified and then get a reporter to ask Bernie about it. You might get your answer then...
No, he turns on the one attacking him as it should be. That you tried to say it was sexist just shows your own incompetance and that you have no real desire to discuss anything legitimately. You just want to repeat talking points. Sad. Truly sad.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)She repeatedly directed the reporter's attention to specifics and issues.
But Bernie didn't bother to read past the false headlines. He just jumped on her.
revbones
(3,660 posts)In the same passive agressive way she couldn't deny Obama wasn't a Muslim or when she couldn't say she wouldn't lie. You think those questions were scripted??? There have been stories after stories about how scripted her interviews are.
She declares war on him saying they will "disqualify" him.
She conducts that scripted interview
Her communications director comes out questioning his qualifications
They leaks stories about it, even questioning whether he's a democrat
and you're hung up over whether she actually said the word rather than every synonym in the thesaurus for the word.
She deserves it. If she can't handle being "vetted" as you guys say, she should drop out.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)the reporter's stupid questions and pointing him to specifics.
And there is no evidence that this interview was "scripted." What a crock.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Didn't think so.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)He went off half-cocked, and that is a bad quality in President.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Going off half-cocked is a bad quality in a president? Guess you didn't see the video of her and the Greenpeace activist...
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Plus, Kerry never implied that Bernie wasn't quified the way Hillary did.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)to specifics and issues, not to any global assessment of his qualifications.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)This is the same crap she pulled when asked about Obama being a Muslim.
She is incapable of learning from her own mistakes. Considering what some of those mistakes have been, that is terrifying.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Which is what they both should be talking about.
From Mediaite:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-lied-hillary-clinton-actually-refused-to-call-him-unqualified-three-times/
What is a problem, though, is that Bernie Sanders launched his attack by first telling a big, fat, insane lie about Hillary. Heres the full context of Bernies remarks, but pay close attention to the first part: (video)
As Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon noted on Twitter, Hillary never said that, but its actually worse than that. Hillary Clinton not only never said that, she actually was aggressively pressed to say that exact thing, three different times in a row, and like some kind of reverse-Apostle Peter, refused each time: (video)
Now, there are actually some Sanders supporters pointing out, with a straight face, that she also didnt say he is qualified, or that what she did say wasnt exactly a compliment, but Ive got news for you guys: Hillary Clinton is Bernies political opponent, it is not her job to compliment him. It also doesnt change the fact that she did not say what he directly quoted her as saying.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Nor is it an attack.
Why is it that Clinton supporters can't grasp that?
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)into a discussion of overall qualifications, preferring to discuss specific issues.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)She could have gone there but choose not to.
Foolish mistake from a terrible candidate.
Prism
(5,815 posts)"Is Bernie Sanders a child molester?"
Well, no. I mean, maybe he made eyes at some kids and spent a lot of time alone with them. I can't say what happened, really, but he was, perhaps, a bit too affectionate with all those hugs and touching.
"Uh, is he a child molester?"
No! But sometimes he wanted some cuddles. And you know those boy shorts and things. And no one really asked him how he felt about Jonathan Taylor Thomas . . .
"Is Bernie diddling kids?"
I never said so. I just don't particularly think I'd personally leave him in charge of a kindergarten . .
We're fucking adults. Do you think this shit plays?
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)They were asking her to speak to whether he was qualified, and she wanted to only speak about specifics and issues -- not some global judgment on how qualified he was.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)They gave her a chance to say things they could hang a headline on, and of course she did so.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)as proven by the fact they asked her three times, so they used the headline they wanted anyway.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)She gave them everything but.
What's it called? "Plausible deniability".......
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)or deceptive saying that Hillary said he was "quote unquote unqualified."
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)what innuendoes are, or "wink wink" hints, then
you guys must be tone impaired.
I know that you refuse to remember 08, but for
me it strikes home. I just wait for a repeat of
the "Shame on you Obama, Shame on you"
with a different name inserted.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Whatever happened during the campaign, they've healed those wounds.
Let's hope Bernie also takes the high road after he loses.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)JI7
(89,260 posts)LexVegas
(6,088 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)refresh my memory.
Jarqui
(10,129 posts)Because he didn't lie and flip-fop as much
Because he had a heck of a lot more practical experience than she did.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)uponit7771
(90,348 posts)... reality doesn't suck
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)It's fairly clear that most of what Sanders says is based on political expedience.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)to call them unqualified.
Marr
(20,317 posts)he never ran against Kerry in a campaign, and had Kerry's campaign openly broadcast their intention to 'disqualify him' the night before those arguments began?
You aren't doing yourselves any favors crying 'sexism' over garbage like this. It looks pathetic, manipulative, weak, and it's insulting to your audiences' intelligence.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)to get attention, and Bernie swallowed it, hook, line, and sinker, without bothering to read what she actually had said.
She REFUSED to take the reporter's bait 3 times and instead directed him to specifics about issues. But Bernie just swallowed it, without reading past the false headline.
Marr
(20,317 posts)That interview on Scarborough was all about how unqualified Sanders is; that he's not experienced and doesn't know how to get things done. Her campaign was pushing it left and right yesterday, and broadcast their intentions to do so they night before (disqualify, destroy). It was their shiny new product yesterday, and everyone knows it. Now they're trying to back pedal from it.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)n/t
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)So unless you absolve HC of what goes on in her own campaign how can you ever expect people to believe she is capable of handling a nation . It was sanctioned by her not disavowing the point .
In short HC owns the entire situation and is presenting a cry bully façade .
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)DUH.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Kerry has a penis
CBHagman
(16,987 posts)It's all right there in the roll call.
Hillary Clinton now sees her Iraq resolution vote as a mistake, and so does Harkin.
[url]http://www.thenation.com/article/what-we-will-lose-when-tom-harkin-leaves-senate/[/url]
He voted for the 2002 resolution that became President Bushs excuse for a war of whim in Iraq, but by 2003 he was declaring: I made a mistake, and I wouldnt do it again. He bluntly said that Bush misled Congress and got his war
a pre-emptive war that has ended in disaster.
choie
(4,111 posts)duh!
mythology
(9,527 posts)It does provide another piece of evidence that Sanders is a regular politician. I think it's a continuation of a trend that he doesn't respond well to being challenged. He had the same reaction recently when Chris Matthews asked for specifics of how he would deal with Republican opposition or at the Netroots Conference where he was interrupted by some protestors.
He's like so many others who become convinced that only their interpretation of things is correct that they lose the ability to be objective or open to other points of view.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Cha
(297,494 posts)Bros4Hillary ??@Bros4Hillary
Hey @taddevine how come it's ok 4 you to defend @JohnKerry record on Iraq vote but not @HillaryClinton?
0:52 PM - 6 Apr 2016
100 100 Retweets 93 93 likes
http://theobamadiary.com/2016/04/07/chat-away-807/#comments
Thank you, pnwmom~
Vinca
(50,300 posts)Don't you realize how that diminishes your candidate? I don't think she needs this kind of "protection" from opposition. It's very demeaning and I'm betting it pisses her off royally when this "defense" is rolled out by her so-called supporters.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan in particular Mrs. Reagan we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."
brewens
(13,615 posts)We now have a whole shitload more people that feel that kind of influence is a dis qualifier.
dubyadiprecession
(5,720 posts)Kerry in 2004. No need to go negative in an old race he wasn't in and losing badly. His message only changes to meet his needs. We need less BS and more credibility in this country.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Obviously, Bernie is a wife-beating he-man woman hating communist.