2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow bout we talk a little Pope visit political strategy.
No matter who you support, what do you Strategically think of Bernies visit to Pope on 4/15.
This means two days travel away from New York. The Friday and Saturday before New York primary on the following Tuesday.
If you were one of Bernies strategists, would you be doing this?
I see both sides.
Yes, he will get some free publicity out of this.
But, it's on a weekend so there won't be as much coverage as a weekday trip.
Plus, he's canceling a lot of New York rallies for this.
With him so far behind in the math, does it even matter?
Would a Pope endorsement be a real Hail Mary? bad pun intended, lol.
Kidding on the endorsement...for the comically challenged...maybe a blessing?
Talk amongst yourselves.
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)This qualifies as earned media. Yes, it's a compromise in terms of schedule. On the bright side, he needs to bolster his foreign policy chops. An audience with His Holiness will be beneficial.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Unless Hillary can get a meeting with Yahweh himself
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Any of these foreign trips by candidates never generate much press unless like Romney, you say something stupid. It's a two minute blip with platitudes.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And there are a few days left for this, plus the Panama papers and all the other shite to build into a TSUNAMI!
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I disagree. Obama's trip to Berlin was a grand slam.
Bernie speaking at the Vatican on a moral economy can only help his campaign.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)between him and Hillary.
The night he's speaking at the Vatican on a moral economy, Hillary will be at a $300k/person fundraiser with George Clooney...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it will earn him national press but not that much local press.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Nobody in NY will hear about him that day.
They'll just hear about Hillary in CA at a $300k/person fundraiser with George Clooney instead!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)The night of the Vatican visit she is at a fundraiser with one of the architects of the deregulation that led to the crash of 2008. Gary Gensler.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Gensler, Clooney. .. gee, they're all starting to blend aren't they...
... all in the 1%.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)I was there, and it was so cool. There was one lonely man with and umbrella with McCain signs hanging off it...McCain signs that he printed off his computer...but anyways...good time had by all.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)knowing the math isn't there for the win
stellanoir
(14,881 posts)Papal protocol for a guest to negotiate scheduling conflicts when offered an audience.
Just guessing though.
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Even one day away this close to the primary (I think he can manage that with overnight flights) is not something a campaign that feels it can pull of a win does.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)You are embarrassing yourself. Think of the time gap btwn Wisconson and NY - Nada - except those small little states that don't matter - they've both got the time to do what they think is important. Pope - Clooney - Pope - Clooney - I dunno - whaddya think?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-george-clooney-fundraiser-221207
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'd guess neither will lose much time on the campaign trail
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it seems pretty obvious that if he was neck and neck with Clinton, with a chance to pull of an upset win here, he'd be doing everything he can to squeeze every last vote out here.
this move will be great for spreading message and augmenting national profile long term, but won't help in NY
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)They'll get both spend roughly the same # of hours at their respective events.
They're both gone off the NY campaign trail the same imo.
Meanwhile Bernie takes the moral high road while Clinton will be contrasted schmoozing with the 1% so even if we're talking a few extra hours off for Bernie the press from this will be priceless and I'm dead cert ALL of NY will see it.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)LMFAO!
4139
(1,893 posts)JudyM
(29,263 posts)Between the Pope's implicit endorsement and the bird's visit ... he has the spirtual world's attention.
4139
(1,893 posts)JudyM
(29,263 posts)seaglass
(8,173 posts)Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders reached out to obtain his invitation to the Vatican and showed monumental discourtesy in the process, a senior Vatican official said.
Sanders made the first move, for the obvious reasons, Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the conference Sanders will attend, said in a telephone interview. I think in a sense he may be going for the Catholic vote but this is not the Catholic vote and he should remember that and act accordingly -- not that he will.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Snippy, entitled sort of Catholic. I was raised a Catholic so I'm familiar with the type. Her remarks are exceedingly impolite and inappropriate.
As I wrote in another thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=168860
It doesn't matter how he got the invitation. The Vatican AGREED to it.
The way things work among public people--elected officials, candidates, celebrities--your contact person contacts people at events and venues that you deem desirable, and lets them know that you are available. Those running those events or venues don't have to invite you. They make a judgement as to whether you would enhance the event or would be an appropriate guest in one way or another. Then the invitation is issued.
So, whether or not this is how it happened, there is absolutely NO QUESTION that Sanders has been vetted by Pope Francis, who either thought of Sanders and invited him, or was told that he was available and invited him.
The absolutely stupid 'talking point' that Clinton bots are circulating that this wasn't an invitation from Pope Francis is for the ignorant--a group they often play to.
(Note: And this may NOT be a rejection of Clinton. She may not have thought of notifying them that she was available. Since she's the Goldman Sachs candidate, probably she wouldn't consider it. She might get criticized there. But she's a spinning top, so who knows? I doubt very much that the Vatican would have rejected her, if she'd told them she was available. Instead she's doing a Fat Cat fundraiser. Oh well.)
Regarding Margaret Archer, it sounds like she was overruled, probably by Pope Francis himself (or someone acting for him). She obviously disagreed with the invitation and is trying to sabotage it with her very undiplomatic remarks. If I have it right--Sanders contacted, Francis agreed, Archer had to obey her boss but didn't like it and got her dig in anyway--she should probably be fired. It is NOT OKAY to shit on a guest that your boss or your organization has either invited or agreed to invite to an event.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)Sanders earlier on Friday said, this is an invitation from the Vatican, from a pope that I have enormous respect for in term of the level of consciousness that hes raising on the need to have morality in our economy."
The office of the pope moved quickly to distance the pontiff from Sanderss visit. Father Federico Lombardi, the Popes spokesman, said Sanders had been invited not by the pope but by the pontifical academy of social sciences. Lombardi told the Italian news agency Ansa: For the moment there is no expectation that there will also be a meeting with the pope.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-04-08/sanders-accused-of-discourtesy-in-seeking-vatican-invitation
I don't care how he got the invitation either except for getting the fact straight that the Pope did not invite him.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)He was invited by the Chancellor of the Vatican Academy, Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, who just said so. The Chancellor's initiated the invitation. So I was wrong about the process (though it's generally true that public figures contact first, then venue invites or doesn't invite).
It's simply unknown, at this point, if the bishop got an okay from Pope Francis (or even needed to).
Margaret Archer was sabotaging her direct boss, the Chancellor, in making her rude remarks about Sanders.
What would be most appropriate for Pope Francis to do is a private meeting with Sanders.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)anything to do with this is just made up b.s.
Doesn't sound like Sorondo is her boss, he is on the Council, she is the President.
http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/about/council.html
The Council of the Academy consists of the President and five Academicians appointed by the Supreme Pontiff, on the proposal of the President, after consultation with the Academicians. Their term of office lasts five years. They may be reappointed.
In addition the following are members of the Council durante munere:
- the Chancellor appointed by the Supreme Pontiff,
- the Delegate of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace;
- the President of the Foundation for the Promotion of the Social Sciences.
These three members attend the sessions of the Academy with the right to vote. The Council assists the President in everything concerning the direction of the Academy, especially in planning the work and preparing the meetings; it receives the reports on the financial resources.
The Council meets at least twice a year at the Academy's headquarters.
The deliberations of the Academy and its Council are valid when a majority of the members are present and when they are approved by a majority of those present. In the case of parity the vote of the President prevails.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)He just stated publicly that HE invited Sanders and that it is NOT TRUE that Sanders invited himself. He says that Margaret Archer, who is president of one of the two Vatican academies (he is her boss, as chancellor of both academies) misrepresented the situation. "That's not what happened," he told Reuters. He made public his letter of invitation to Sanders, which includes Archer's name and his own as those inviting Sanders! He basically publicly chastised her, as well he might. What she said was not only completely untrue, it was rude and extremely undiplomatic.
It's as if President Obama had invited Sanders to the White House and Sec of State John Kerry stated publicly, "Sanders invited himself and I hope he behaves himself and doesn't ask the White House staff for their votes." It was THAT rude and inappropriate! A second in command NEVER does that to their boss! They get fired for that! It puts the whole institution in a very bad light.
Anyway, it's inconceivable to me that the Chancellor would invite a U.S. presidential candidate to a Vatican academy event on income inequality WITHOUT consulting Pope Francis. I mean, that's ANOTHER thing a subordinate does NOT do--issue big, important, politically "hot" invitations without telling his boss!
That's nuts. I think we can be sure that Pope Francis okayed the invitation.
jillan
(39,451 posts)jehop61
(1,735 posts)Has been looking a bit tired and haggard. Campaigning is brutal. Don't think taking a quick round trip flight to Europe is the best use of his time. He is 74 and not made of steel. Bad decision. PS. I'm a contemporary and fear for his long term health.
revbones
(3,660 posts)and come back rejuvenated...
I will say though, that I think the "tired and haggard" is much more apparent on Clinton...
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm sure they'll splurge to ensure he has maximum time to stretch out.
I'd say he'll probably get more rest on the flights to and from Rome (an 8 hour trip one way), than he might have gotten here on the campaign trail.
His stamina is unbelievable though. Its amazing.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)What a crock.
And BTW,I am also in my 70s.. The guy is fine.. depends on one's life style, genes, mental and emotional state..... Sounds like your's may be.. a little different from Bernie's and mine in these regards...
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)will notice. I think it's a worthwhile gamble.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)33% of all US Catholics are in NY.
I think this is a great event for Bernie and will pay dividends in the primary and the GE.
4139
(1,893 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)4139
(1,893 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)There are a greater % of Catholics in NY than there are Evangelicals in Little Rock, or Mormons in Salt Lake City, and her goons just called the Pope a liar
What I find pretty amazing is that Bernie sat on this till just now, that must have taken great willpower!
Campaigning like a Brooklynite, indeed!