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Funtatlaguy

(10,885 posts)
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:34 AM Apr 2016

How bout we talk a little Pope visit political strategy.

No matter who you support, what do you Strategically think of Bernies visit to Pope on 4/15.

This means two days travel away from New York. The Friday and Saturday before New York primary on the following Tuesday.

If you were one of Bernies strategists, would you be doing this?

I see both sides.
Yes, he will get some free publicity out of this.
But, it's on a weekend so there won't be as much coverage as a weekday trip.
Plus, he's canceling a lot of New York rallies for this.

With him so far behind in the math, does it even matter?
Would a Pope endorsement be a real Hail Mary? bad pun intended, lol.
Kidding on the endorsement...for the comically challenged...maybe a blessing?

Talk amongst yourselves.

52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How bout we talk a little Pope visit political strategy. (Original Post) Funtatlaguy Apr 2016 OP
Debate, Then Red-Eye corbettkroehler Apr 2016 #1
Strategy? He has now won all the remaining states by HUGE margins! floppyboo Apr 2016 #2
Yahweh will need to cough up some bags of gold. nt CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #39
Another unforced error by Jeff Weaver redstateblues Apr 2016 #3
unless you don't watch MSM. This WILL get the vote out!!! floppyboo Apr 2016 #6
Lol, Obama in Berlin... riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #7
Obama trip to Berlin was for the general election, not the primary, which he had already clinched nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #10
The optics are terrific for Bernie now. Much better for him to amplify the differences riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #14
optics are not a replacement for local campaigning in a MUST win primary. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #15
Oh gosh, you're right. None of the NY papers will cover his Vatican speech... riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #18
Are you serious??? pangaia Apr 2016 #29
Its actually worse... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #35
Oh my! I thought that was the date for Clooney's soiree. riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #36
That was for the general.... all american girl Apr 2016 #52
either that or he's going back into "run on the issues" mode geek tragedy Apr 2016 #12
Not sure it's within the boundaries of approriate stellanoir Apr 2016 #4
GeorgiaPeanuts Offers Keen Insight corbettkroehler Apr 2016 #5
^^this^^ PLUS all the atheists and independants. She's cooked. n/t floppyboo Apr 2016 #8
it means his internal polls show he isn't close there. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #9
Again: Your girl Hill is pulling out the same night to fly to SanFran to kiss some butt floppyboo Apr 2016 #13
How many days off the trail is she spending? nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #17
don't know - but I don't think she afford even 1 - especially not that 1 nt floppyboo Apr 2016 #19
I'm guessing she spends zero days off the campaign trail. nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #21
6 hour flight to CA, 8.25 hour flight to Rome. riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #20
except he's committed to spending one full day away from the campaign trail. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #22
They're both flying for roughly the same amount of time. riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #25
You should be happy, but you're so concerned, I wonder why? JRLeft Apr 2016 #26
It is a Papal endorsement, the Pope invited Bernie. 4139 Apr 2016 #11
Certainly seems so. It is glaringly obvious that Hillary was *not* invited. JudyM Apr 2016 #23
38% of New York State is Catholic... Pope trying to nudge undecided in NY, RI, CT 4139 Apr 2016 #34
I love it and I also feel kind of guilty. JudyM Apr 2016 #48
Actually Bernie asked for the invite. seaglass Apr 2016 #41
Sounds like Ms. Archer is not used to dealing with Brooklynites. Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #42
No, the Pope specifically said he did not invite Sanders. seaglass Apr 2016 #44
Vatican has debunked smear of Sanders Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #45
He was invited after the invite was requested, likely by Jeffrey Sachs. Suggesting the Pope had seaglass Apr 2016 #47
The Chancellor, Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, is a confidante of Pope Francis. Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #49
I was wondering how the hillbots would spin this. Thank you. jillan Apr 2016 #16
Lately Bernie jehop61 Apr 2016 #24
Perhaps he'll get a little replenished spiritually by his visit to the Vatican revbones Apr 2016 #27
I'm going to guess the campaign hires a private jet for the ride over riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #28
It sounds like 10 hours of forced downtime. Perfect place to rest. TheBlackAdder Apr 2016 #31
Oh jesus did you really type that silliness. pangaia Apr 2016 #32
It's so sweet you fear for Bernie's health. I guess he should decline the invite immediately. Avalux Apr 2016 #43
The gamble is that NY's many Democratic catholics like Cuomo, Gillibrand, and ordinary others Renew Deal Apr 2016 #30
New York has the highest percentage of Catholics in the US riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #33
38% of ny state Catholic ... RI 51%, CT 45.6 and their primaries coming shortly 4139 Apr 2016 #37
Oh I'm happy to be wrong! riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #38
Ny is home to the largest number of Catholics 4139 Apr 2016 #40
Nope, that's California jfern Apr 2016 #51
I wonder if Hillary stills wants to take off the gloves? demwing Apr 2016 #46
Talking about issues we care about? It's a win, why do you think we're voting for him? nt Joob Apr 2016 #50

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
1. Debate, Then Red-Eye
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:37 AM
Apr 2016

This qualifies as earned media. Yes, it's a compromise in terms of schedule. On the bright side, he needs to bolster his foreign policy chops. An audience with His Holiness will be beneficial.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
2. Strategy? He has now won all the remaining states by HUGE margins!
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:37 AM
Apr 2016

Unless Hillary can get a meeting with Yahweh himself

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
3. Another unforced error by Jeff Weaver
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:38 AM
Apr 2016

Any of these foreign trips by candidates never generate much press unless like Romney, you say something stupid. It's a two minute blip with platitudes.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
6. unless you don't watch MSM. This WILL get the vote out!!!
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:41 AM
Apr 2016

And there are a few days left for this, plus the Panama papers and all the other shite to build into a TSUNAMI!

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
7. Lol, Obama in Berlin...
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:44 AM
Apr 2016

I disagree. Obama's trip to Berlin was a grand slam.

Bernie speaking at the Vatican on a moral economy can only help his campaign.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
14. The optics are terrific for Bernie now. Much better for him to amplify the differences
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:54 AM
Apr 2016

between him and Hillary.

The night he's speaking at the Vatican on a moral economy, Hillary will be at a $300k/person fundraiser with George Clooney...

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. optics are not a replacement for local campaigning in a MUST win primary.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:58 AM
Apr 2016

it will earn him national press but not that much local press.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
18. Oh gosh, you're right. None of the NY papers will cover his Vatican speech...
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

Nobody in NY will hear about him that day.

They'll just hear about Hillary in CA at a $300k/person fundraiser with George Clooney instead!



 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
35. Its actually worse...
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:31 AM
Apr 2016

The night of the Vatican visit she is at a fundraiser with one of the architects of the deregulation that led to the crash of 2008. Gary Gensler.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
36. Oh my! I thought that was the date for Clooney's soiree.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:34 AM
Apr 2016

Gensler, Clooney. .. gee, they're all starting to blend aren't they...

... all in the 1%.




all american girl

(1,788 posts)
52. That was for the general....
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 06:17 AM
Apr 2016

I was there, and it was so cool. There was one lonely man with and umbrella with McCain signs hanging off it...McCain signs that he printed off his computer...but anyways...good time had by all.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
12. either that or he's going back into "run on the issues" mode
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:52 AM
Apr 2016

knowing the math isn't there for the win

stellanoir

(14,881 posts)
4. Not sure it's within the boundaries of approriate
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:39 AM
Apr 2016

Papal protocol for a guest to negotiate scheduling conflicts when offered an audience.

Just guessing though.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
9. it means his internal polls show he isn't close there.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:47 AM
Apr 2016

Even one day away this close to the primary (I think he can manage that with overnight flights) is not something a campaign that feels it can pull of a win does.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
13. Again: Your girl Hill is pulling out the same night to fly to SanFran to kiss some butt
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:53 AM
Apr 2016

You are embarrassing yourself. Think of the time gap btwn Wisconson and NY - Nada - except those small little states that don't matter - they've both got the time to do what they think is important. Pope - Clooney - Pope - Clooney - I dunno - whaddya think?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-george-clooney-fundraiser-221207

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
20. 6 hour flight to CA, 8.25 hour flight to Rome.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:05 AM
Apr 2016

I'd guess neither will lose much time on the campaign trail

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. except he's committed to spending one full day away from the campaign trail.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:07 AM
Apr 2016

it seems pretty obvious that if he was neck and neck with Clinton, with a chance to pull of an upset win here, he'd be doing everything he can to squeeze every last vote out here.

this move will be great for spreading message and augmenting national profile long term, but won't help in NY

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
25. They're both flying for roughly the same amount of time.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:15 AM
Apr 2016

They'll get both spend roughly the same # of hours at their respective events.

They're both gone off the NY campaign trail the same imo.

Meanwhile Bernie takes the moral high road while Clinton will be contrasted schmoozing with the 1% so even if we're talking a few extra hours off for Bernie the press from this will be priceless and I'm dead cert ALL of NY will see it.

JudyM

(29,263 posts)
23. Certainly seems so. It is glaringly obvious that Hillary was *not* invited.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:09 AM
Apr 2016

Between the Pope's implicit endorsement and the bird's visit ... he has the spirtual world's attention.

seaglass

(8,173 posts)
41. Actually Bernie asked for the invite.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:49 AM
Apr 2016
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-08/vatican-academy-criticizes-sanders-s-monumental-discourtesy

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders reached out to obtain his invitation to the Vatican and showed “monumental discourtesy” in the process, a senior Vatican official said.

“Sanders made the first move, for the obvious reasons,” Margaret Archer, president of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the conference Sanders will attend, said in a telephone interview. “I think in a sense he may be going for the Catholic vote but this is not the Catholic vote and he should remember that and act accordingly -- not that he will.”

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
42. Sounds like Ms. Archer is not used to dealing with Brooklynites.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:03 PM
Apr 2016

Snippy, entitled sort of Catholic. I was raised a Catholic so I'm familiar with the type. Her remarks are exceedingly impolite and inappropriate.

As I wrote in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=168860

It doesn't matter how he got the invitation. The Vatican AGREED to it.

The way things work among public people--elected officials, candidates, celebrities--your contact person contacts people at events and venues that you deem desirable, and lets them know that you are available. Those running those events or venues don't have to invite you. They make a judgement as to whether you would enhance the event or would be an appropriate guest in one way or another. Then the invitation is issued.

So, whether or not this is how it happened, there is absolutely NO QUESTION that Sanders has been vetted by Pope Francis, who either thought of Sanders and invited him, or was told that he was available and invited him.

The absolutely stupid 'talking point' that Clinton bots are circulating that this wasn't an invitation from Pope Francis is for the ignorant--a group they often play to.

(Note: And this may NOT be a rejection of Clinton. She may not have thought of notifying them that she was available. Since she's the Goldman Sachs candidate, probably she wouldn't consider it. She might get criticized there. But she's a spinning top, so who knows? I doubt very much that the Vatican would have rejected her, if she'd told them she was available. Instead she's doing a Fat Cat fundraiser. Oh well.)


Regarding Margaret Archer, it sounds like she was overruled, probably by Pope Francis himself (or someone acting for him). She obviously disagreed with the invitation and is trying to sabotage it with her very undiplomatic remarks. If I have it right--Sanders contacted, Francis agreed, Archer had to obey her boss but didn't like it and got her dig in anyway--she should probably be fired. It is NOT OKAY to shit on a guest that your boss or your organization has either invited or agreed to invite to an event.

seaglass

(8,173 posts)
44. No, the Pope specifically said he did not invite Sanders.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:07 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders earlier on Friday said, “this is an invitation from the Vatican, from a pope that I have enormous respect for in term of the level of consciousness that he’s raising on the need to have morality in our economy."

The office of the pope moved quickly to distance the pontiff from Sanders’s visit. Father Federico Lombardi, the Pope’s spokesman, said Sanders had been invited “not by the pope but by the pontifical academy of social sciences.” Lombardi told the Italian news agency Ansa: “For the moment there is no expectation that there will also be a meeting with the pope.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-04-08/sanders-accused-of-discourtesy-in-seeking-vatican-invitation

I don't care how he got the invitation either except for getting the fact straight that the Pope did not invite him.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
45. Vatican has debunked smear of Sanders
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:21 PM
Apr 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511681404

He was invited by the Chancellor of the Vatican Academy, Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, who just said so. The Chancellor's initiated the invitation. So I was wrong about the process (though it's generally true that public figures contact first, then venue invites or doesn't invite).

It's simply unknown, at this point, if the bishop got an okay from Pope Francis (or even needed to).

Margaret Archer was sabotaging her direct boss, the Chancellor, in making her rude remarks about Sanders.

What would be most appropriate for Pope Francis to do is a private meeting with Sanders.

seaglass

(8,173 posts)
47. He was invited after the invite was requested, likely by Jeffrey Sachs. Suggesting the Pope had
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:33 PM
Apr 2016

anything to do with this is just made up b.s.

Doesn't sound like Sorondo is her boss, he is on the Council, she is the President.

http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/about/council.html

The Council of the Academy consists of the President and five Academicians appointed by the Supreme Pontiff, on the proposal of the President, after consultation with the Academicians. Their term of office lasts five years. They may be reappointed.

In addition the following are members of the Council durante munere:

- the Chancellor appointed by the Supreme Pontiff,
- the Delegate of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace;
- the President of the Foundation for the Promotion of the Social Sciences.

These three members attend the sessions of the Academy with the right to vote. The Council assists the President in everything concerning the direction of the Academy, especially in planning the work and preparing the meetings; it receives the reports on the financial resources.

The Council meets at least twice a year at the Academy's headquarters.

The deliberations of the Academy and its Council are valid when a majority of the members are present and when they are approved by a majority of those present. In the case of parity the vote of the President prevails.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
49. The Chancellor, Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, is a confidante of Pope Francis.
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 04:32 AM
Apr 2016

He just stated publicly that HE invited Sanders and that it is NOT TRUE that Sanders invited himself. He says that Margaret Archer, who is president of one of the two Vatican academies (he is her boss, as chancellor of both academies) misrepresented the situation. "That's not what happened," he told Reuters. He made public his letter of invitation to Sanders, which includes Archer's name and his own as those inviting Sanders! He basically publicly chastised her, as well he might. What she said was not only completely untrue, it was rude and extremely undiplomatic.

It's as if President Obama had invited Sanders to the White House and Sec of State John Kerry stated publicly, "Sanders invited himself and I hope he behaves himself and doesn't ask the White House staff for their votes." It was THAT rude and inappropriate! A second in command NEVER does that to their boss! They get fired for that! It puts the whole institution in a very bad light.

Anyway, it's inconceivable to me that the Chancellor would invite a U.S. presidential candidate to a Vatican academy event on income inequality WITHOUT consulting Pope Francis. I mean, that's ANOTHER thing a subordinate does NOT do--issue big, important, politically "hot" invitations without telling his boss!

That's nuts. I think we can be sure that Pope Francis okayed the invitation.

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
24. Lately Bernie
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:13 AM
Apr 2016

Has been looking a bit tired and haggard. Campaigning is brutal. Don't think taking a quick round trip flight to Europe is the best use of his time. He is 74 and not made of steel. Bad decision. PS. I'm a contemporary and fear for his long term health.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
27. Perhaps he'll get a little replenished spiritually by his visit to the Vatican
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:18 AM
Apr 2016

and come back rejuvenated...

I will say though, that I think the "tired and haggard" is much more apparent on Clinton...

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
28. I'm going to guess the campaign hires a private jet for the ride over
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:18 AM
Apr 2016

I'm sure they'll splurge to ensure he has maximum time to stretch out.

I'd say he'll probably get more rest on the flights to and from Rome (an 8 hour trip one way), than he might have gotten here on the campaign trail.

His stamina is unbelievable though. Its amazing.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
32. Oh jesus did you really type that silliness.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:26 AM
Apr 2016

What a crock.


And BTW,I am also in my 70s.. The guy is fine.. depends on one's life style, genes, mental and emotional state..... Sounds like your's may be.. a little different from Bernie's and mine in these regards...

Renew Deal

(81,869 posts)
30. The gamble is that NY's many Democratic catholics like Cuomo, Gillibrand, and ordinary others
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:22 AM
Apr 2016

will notice. I think it's a worthwhile gamble.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
33. New York has the highest percentage of Catholics in the US
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:28 AM
Apr 2016

33% of all US Catholics are in NY.

I think this is a great event for Bernie and will pay dividends in the primary and the GE.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
46. I wonder if Hillary stills wants to take off the gloves?
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 02:32 PM
Apr 2016

There are a greater % of Catholics in NY than there are Evangelicals in Little Rock, or Mormons in Salt Lake City, and her goons just called the Pope a liar

What I find pretty amazing is that Bernie sat on this till just now, that must have taken great willpower!

Campaigning like a Brooklynite, indeed!

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