It's always been a wet dream of the right wing and fringe left enablers.

I was a crass comment.

the discourse around here here has been in the gutter fro some time.

And I agree with you on the second point. It's on both sides

I think the Bernie supporters here may actually fantasize about it more than the GOP does.

Of course, who can tell the difference anymore when it comes to anti-Dem rhetoric.

the investigation within the FBI.

Department IG. As to the FBI investigation, they have played everything close to the vest. It seems they are now to the point of possibly interviewing some of the Clinton aides and maybe Clinton. Several people who know more about process have suggested this means they are nearing the end.

The BEST this comes out for HRC is that the FBI determines there is not sufficient reason to indict Clinton or any aides. This would lift a cloud from her, but the entire email decision will still have been a negative. It exposed that she did not keep her agreement on the Clinton Foundation/State Department avoidance of conflicts of interest and it reminds people of her secretiveness.

The the summary given by Obama - that she was a good Secretary of State, but careless in what she did with her email is a mixed message. Note that Clinton herself has already conceded that she made a "mistake" with the email. (Note Obama spoke just to National Security, not whether not archiving the emails made it impossible for the State Department to respond to FOIA requests.) Note also that is in Obama's interest to portray this in the most positive light as it reflects on him as she did this as part of his administration.

I do not think SHE will be indicted. I do think that it is possible that an aide(s) could be indicted.

I also think she will be our nominee and will be President. What concerns me is that this is another in a long list of things that Bill or Hillary Clinton have done that is essentially on the borderline of what is acceptable. It worries me because it shows that it was mostly Bill Clinton and that she had not learned from the past.

from Sid Blu's computer, emails that Clinton had scrubbed on her end.

seems to ignore there are two investigations.

I would challenge anybody to read the article with an open mind, layperson or lawyer, and say with a straight face that the fact pattern of those prosecuted had even remotely similar fact patterns as Secretary Clinton.

Just despicable. Glad that Obama is stepping up in her defense.

(and, unfortunately some Bernie supporters) a handy message to keep trying to smear her. When they finally have to give up on it it will be a) a big letdown and b) open season on all the reasons why it was a Clinton conspiracy that didn't let them indict her.

moving heaven and earth to keep the "scandal" alive. Remember Vince Foster, Travelgate, Whitewater, etc. etc. etc. It's all they have.

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

the email system itself nor issues revealed within the emails.

I do think that the issue makes Hillary Clinton unqualified to be SOS as I do not believe good can be found in rogue privatized portions of our political system.

Such is the USA.

It is not just GOP that finds the issue troubling and disqualifying.

You know this because there are many good and very long term Democrats here at DU that share my opinion.

Thank us for calling me foolish and desperate (and GOP), none of which is true and you know it is not true.

Edit: Replace "us" with "you" and "me" with "us" in sentence above oops.

FIXED IT FOR YA

I don't expect you to change your opinion nor delete your post. She reminds me a lot of Richard Nixon in manner, more than any other politician. Today's neo-liberal wing of the Democratic Party are quite similar in policy to the Rockefeller wing of the GOP contemporary to when I first became politically aware and then aged into a vote.

Hillary Clinton is unacceptable to me because she is a war hawk and a fundamentally dishonest person; I don't think she can help herself and is not as adroit as Bill Clinton.

Specific new negative issues to me are The Clinton Foundation, the wealth gained post-POTUS by the Clinton family, her poor votes, and her poor performance as SOS.

The emails aren't that much an issue to me though Hillary Clinton did sometimes undermine POTUS Obama, recalling Blumenthal and Libya and what went on in Honduras

I once thought highly of Bill Clinton and voted for Clinton twice for POTUS but evolved.

There was no better choice, nice to win again for a change, and did not look close enough at some issues nor was that hep to neoliberalism.

Plan Colombia caused my first Clinton concern.

I have been a registered Democrat and Democratic voter since came of age and voted for McGovern. I was most active in 1968 before I was old enough to vote and was in the streets of San Francisco and Berkeley to stop the war and elect a Democratic POTUS who was anti-Vietnam. One exception was that I registered GOP to vote John Anderson in the 1980 California primary against Reagan. My vote always has been a "sure thing" but just about always have backed into my final vote. I really liked the young Jerry Brown and Ron Dellums too.

By POTUS campaign 2008 Hillary Clinton was the last of the nine Democratic candidates. One can see my posts at DU. Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign was nasty to POTUS to be Obama, apart from any other candidate and very unappealing.

Prior to 2016 POTUS campaign there were already many Democratic folks at large and at DU that had highly negative opinions of Hillary Clinton and very few people that spoke ill of Bernie Sanders. The Clinton campaign has taught people to speak ill of Bernie Sanders. What an accomplishment!!!

My preference is Sanders but I backed into Sanders because he was the one who holds the torch against Hillary Clinton Probably I would have preferred someone else; maybe Jerry Brown though I am not the strong supporter of Brown as I was in the past. Jerry Brown is unique in his skill and commitment as an administrator compared to other pols and has been always a good Governor of California, though I am not as often now in agreement.

Hillary Clinton is very likely to be our POTUS nominee and that is going to suppress vote from top to bottom of the Democratic ticket. Clinton will not be as good a POTUS as Obama and we will continue to tread water or lose ground on progressive issues. Aside from social, I do not consider Hillary Clinton a progressive (historically a morphing term, liberal, nor a warrior for economic justice.

So carry on. I have always respected you at DU but IMO your head is screwed on backwards regards Hillary Clinton.

its the slush fund, er...clinton foundation that laundered money to provide favors to her international friends while in the sos office.

THAT is the bigger problem by far, but the server issue is still likely to be determined to be criminal. especially now that they have one of the hackers talking.

Her future viability rests on Comey's report imo.

If he clears her 100% , then she easily moves forward with the nomination.

Anything less than that will mean it plagues her relentlessly from the GOP and independents who already think she's untrustworthy.

I should clarify that I believe there's plenty to indict her and a couple (all?) of her aides.

I just don't think Obama will allow Lynch to indict her

As I see it, Obama has to survive and hopefully thrive post-presidency. He doesn’t want to piss off and alienate the Big Dawg, Hillary and their extended "family", the Bushes. The rest of his life (which is considerable) would be hell politicallly.

I predict he won't do it. Hillary will have to win it despite an indictment rec from Comey. I predict he neither hurts her on this front or helps her.

Oh and Paul Thompson is a genius and a treasure!

As always Hillary will not go down for having the wrong info in her emails it will be for not turning over everything she had on her home server when the DOJ asked. Let us not forget that Martha Stuart went to jail not for insider trading but for lying to the FBI and Bill did not lose his law licensee over getting a Blow-job in the oval office it was for lying under oath. Hillary thought that she had wiped her hard drive but it is not that easy to hide info from the FBI, we know that emails to Blumenthal were left out of the emails Hillary turned over and that the FBI has "recovered" info which was erased. We also know some people including the tech who set up the server and maintained it has been given immunity, not to mention the ties to her family foundation.... So all in all this will go way beyond a few careless emails she sent.

But it will be the end if her political career

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to conduct State business on a unsecured server that had been sitting in her basement throughout her tenure as Secretary of State--and also two years after she left the position--be held accountable?

What she did was so egregious. There's absolutely no precedent for it.

No one should be made to feel guilty for being horrified that Hillary sent thousands of classified emails via her secret server that even Obama was unaware of. That's jacked up.

Yep. Call us crazy for suggesting that Hillary follow the law. Why! What an inconvenience for her!

Executive Order 13526 and 18 U.S.C Sec. 793(f) of the federal code make it unlawful to send or store classified information on personal email.

Executive order was issued by President Obama on Dec 29, 2009.

Look what we have here! Sid Blumenthal's inbox and an assortment of emails that Sid and Hillary had going back and forth.

The FBI asked Hillary to turn over all of her work emails. See where the red star is? That's an email that Hillary didn't turn over to the FBI. She "wiped" it from her server (with a cloth or something). "Libya Security latest" is the title of that email? Doesn't look personal to me. Does it to you?



Do you know how the FBI discovered that Hillary didn't turn over that particular email? A hacker "Guccifer" broke into Blumenthal's emails and published the emails between Hillary and Blumenthal. The FBI happened to notice that "Guccifer" published emails that Hillary didn't turn over.

You want to know what the FBI did then? They asked Blumenthal for all of his emails. And next they extradited "Guccifer" to the United States.

Sid Blumenthal doesn't have a security clearance. You can't discuss classified information with someone who doesn't have a security clearance. That's what Petraeus did. But Petraeus didn't do it over a private, home-brew, unsecured server during a period of four years. Clinton and Blumenthal went back and forth about Libya and other sensitive subjects. And she deleted that Libya email and hid it from the FBI. Or so she thought. The FBI has recovered all of her deleted emails. What a relief, right?

She has every right to delete emails like that.

that is titled "Libya security."

Do you suppose that Hillary was scoping out Libyan wedding-reception venues for her daughter's wedding?

Perhaps, Hillary and Sid were planning to take a yoga class in Tripoli and they were concerned about security?

Oh Bob. Your denial is truly a work of art.

Please go on. Tell us more.

Just because it was about Libya doenst make it work related or classified or anything.

There is nothing there.. sorry to disappoint you.

You are not a serious person.

Yeah. I email my close friends and discuss yoga classes, family vacations--and security in Libya.

Clearly, this was a work-related email. And she failed to turn it over when she should have.

I dont get it.

that will bring her down.

The fact that she deleted it while deceptively calling it "personal" shows INTENT.

Thanks CoffeeCat.

Those would all be considered personal.. correct?

that she was consulting with Blumenthal on issues of foreign-policy and national security.

I've read that Blumenthal was sending her reports on Sudan that were classified documents containing word-for-word analysis of NSA reports on Sudan. It appears that Blumenthal had someone in the NSA who was funneling this information to him.

And Blumenthal was sharing the information and discussing it, back and forth, with Hillary Clinton her private, unsecured email server.

Furthermore, Blumenthal didn't have security clearance.

That is not Hillary's fault.

It is her job to know what information is classified--and she undoubtedly knew that sending and receiving the information via a unsecured, home-brew email server--was illegal.

To suggest that Hillary Clinton, the Secretary of State (the one with so much experience) would not be able to tell that sensitive information about Sudan was being sent back and forth, in and out of her private email server, is ludicrous.

I have to go. Ciao.

The only ones she didnt turn over were her personal ones. That's all within the rules and regs.

You would need to have proof she intentionally did not turn over any work related emails to avoid scrutiny. That's would be very difficult to prove.

Give it up dude... she's will be cleared. I am sure of it.

She is Toast you have just not noticed yet.
So many believe that this is some Right Wing BS when it is really all by Hillary's own making.

Sid Blumenthal is a personal friend of hers that corresponded with her regarding all sorts of matters.

You have no idea what was in those emails, or what those emails were about.

You're trying to make the case that an email titled "Libyan Security" was personal. That's a bit wacky.

That's only 20 emails per day over a 4 year period.

I have more than that and I am nobody!

because we don't know what she "wiped with a cloth" and failed to send to the FBI.

I certainly can't make any claims that those emails contained classified info. However, you are unable to make claims that they were personal. Neither of us knows.

But what we do know is that she didn't turn over a work-related email to Sidney Blumenthal, because she was caught.

Those were the rules at the time. She followed the rules.

I just want it wrapped up one way or another.

& before the GE, if its an indictment.

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 11:33 AM - Edit history (1)

No other high-level Federal employee has built a home-brew, unsecured server, kept it in their basement and sent thousands of classified and Top Secret emails via this server--that even the President of the United States didn't know about.

That's never happened.

And don't give me the bullshit line, "Welllll Condi and Colin did it too." No they didn't. They never sent classified information over a private server. Never.

And if you don't understand the difference between sending a personal email with your Gmail or Yahoo account (which is what Rice and Powell did) and Hillary conducting four year's worth of State Department business on an unsecured server--then stop talking.

Don't even try to defend it.

Will she be indicted? That's a whole other ball of wax. I don't know. I sure as hell hope so. She deserves it. Ask anyone who knows anything about security clearances and how seriously the government takes the dissemination and transmission of classified information. Many of them stay away from these threads, because THEY DO KNOW.

I think it was rather clever to set up her own email server. I might have done the same in similar circumstances. It would provide better control, convenience and reliability. Nothing illegal about any of that.

Simple logic, if Bush and Cheney (among so many other countless bad actors) escaped justice, Hillary certainly won't be.

After all, they're all in the same private club. They don't have to play by the same rules everyone else does.

You can bookmark it!

What Mrs. Clinton did was unprecedented.

In this case there is little doubt that she did wrong either by accident or design.

Whether the voting public will take it under consideration, whatever the outcome, is yet to be seen.

Guaranteed.

Opinions differ. At best, they won't drop further than her already dismal favorables.

As evidenced by her historic unfavorable ratings.

Truly.

But good on you for supporting your candidate.

That's the whole thing in a nutshell.

You can't reasonably entirely dismiss the possibility. There is some small-but-not-entirely-insignificant chance that she falls into substantial legal difficulties, which even assuming she wins the nomination, can come back to bite her in the general, or in her presidency.

Similarly, note the words I bolded:

and I have come to the conclusion she is going to be cleared of anything illegal.

He said...

"I haven't been sorting through each and every aspect of this" - acknowledging that he doesn't know all the details.

"She would never intentionally put America in any kind on jeopardy" - intention is not the only thing that determines culpability.

"I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America's national security" - that's what he believes, but he does not know for certain. As he said, he does not know every detail.

And, if by some chance, things fall the other way, Hillary cannot count on Obama for help:

"I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line."

"I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the justice department or FBI."

"Guaranteed, full stop, nobody gets treated differently when it comes to the justice department, because nobody is above the law."


You may have "come to the conclusion she is going to be cleared of anything illegal" but it is simply not something anyone can know with certainty.

He knows exactly what he is doing and was totally prepared for that question. He knew it was coming.

That being the case, let's assume for a moment that he was not 100% confident that Hillary would be cleared of any possible wrong-doing. How do you think his answers would have been any different? Would you actually expect him to give ANY hint that he thought there was a chance that the frontrunner for his party's nomination would be indicted?

Really, the only other answer he could have given would have been something like "I'm not going to offer any comment on an on-going investigation." And that would have just about sunk her campaign. While you might suggest that he gave a great answer, I could also argue that there was no worse answer he could give, assuming he did not want to torpedo her campaign. He left wiggle room, as he started by saying he didn't know all the facts, he took the "character witness" approach ("she would not intentionally...&quot , and talked about what he "believed" rather than "knew." There was no vindication there, only statements of opinion... a show of support that he was on her side, but not so much that she could count on any help from him if she found herself in any real trouble.

I understand you see a lot of reassurance in his answer, but seriously, how do you think he would have answered it if he actually thought there was, say, a 1% or 10% chance that she could be indicted? Do you really think the answer would be any different?

And would be working like hell to get someone ready to take her place like Joe Biden.

As you said, he knew the question was coming. How could he have not said anything? Just sit there mute? The closest to that would be "I don't want to comment on an existing investigation" which would have been the end of her campaign. That would make no sense, unless he was quite certain she *was* going to be indicted. But if he thinks there's only a small chance, what is he supposed to say?

He is letting Hillary "own" this one he even said as much; the issue which he had to be carful what he said had to do with the emails which she "owned". Obama was just going on the record that he had nothing to do with this mess and would not get involved.

He knows she is going to be found clean. I am sure of it.

"I have to be careful what I say" If there is no there, what does he have to be "Carful" about? He then went on to make it clear the the emails were "Owned" by Hillary why use the word "Owned"? I think he just wanted to distance himself from her mess. If Obama had not offered words supporting her job as SOS then he would have had to answer why he keep her on. In my mind Obama was and still is out of the loop on Hillary and her friend Blumenthal ( a person that Obama had told Hillary could have as part of the State Department)

what would be the result of an
"Insufficient Evidence" judgement by the FBI?