The reality is a harsh one for Hillary. She absolutely cannot win without appealing to Bernie supporters. It simply cannot happen. That's the reality she has to face.

..."supporters" make up a lot less than that, but he does have a high percentage of republican crossovers who would rather have their candidate run against Sanders than Clinton.

If the Sanders supporters want that to become reality, then by all means cut off your own nose to spite your face. Hillary Rodham Clinton will be the 2016 Democratic nominee. I would highly suggest that you hop aboard the H-train. The final destination is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

I woke up in a house I didn't recognize with a needle on the nightstand. And much like heroin, I fear the come-down is going to be the worst part of a Clinton presidency.

We don't fear Democrats here. We fear the homophobic, racist, misogynistic clown car candidates that call themselves Republicans. You are in for a real nasty come-down if you believe the shit you just posted.

and undermining welfare for hundreds of thousands of single-parent moms, and the children that rely upon them.

with that kind of money.

She's electoral poison. Why insist on her?

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I thought about this for a while On one hand we have a Republican who are like a gun shot to the head (Quick) or on the other we would have Hillary as Stage IV cancer (Slow & Painful). problem is both will kill ya.

Then I recalled, a parent punishes a child to teach them right from wrong and I can remember my pop saying this hurts me more than it hurts you.

So if we really want change in our party to shift from the elitist who have taken control ...we must do what is painful and will hurt us more then the elite.. otherwise we will never see change and will die a slow and painful death versus a quick and merciful end.

Many liberals are just done seeing the country go right, no matter who wins elections.

Instead of political terrorism, give people someone/something to vote for.

she can tack far enough to the Right to get Republicans to vote for her.

If she promises them restrictions on reproductive choice, big cuts in Social Security, and privatizing....well, everything, then she might get some of them.

I know they assume that they don't need lefties at all, hear it every day.

about Hillary supporters not voting for Obama.

I suspect that a Trump or Cruz nomination will pot everything in perspective.

Complete Dumbshits.

to be swayed, solidified, weakened, or modified as result of anonymous intarwebz snark is a mush-minded fool who should not be allowed to leave the house without a minder.

...is too naive to be allowed to perform such asshattery.

with my all-powerful snottiness!!

My god!! THE POWER! BEHOLD THE MIGHTY SNARK!!!

Well, not only hope...but it might end up that way.

*shrug* I'll take it...if it keeps Princess Weathervane off the ballot and out of the Oval Office.

I also think there are enough Trump voters who would vote for Bernie is nominated to give him the WH.

your argument. Your logic fails at the first step. You cannot demonstrate the correctness of your initial premise.

You've already made up your mind, and no amount of evidence would dissuade you from your chosen vote. I could dredge up the link to the information... but, frankly, you're just not worth the effort.

Thus your complaint about the "logic" is inapplicable, really.

it's a pretty solid speculation, I'd say. Hillary's numbers among independents and young voters are abysmal. Withoug the votes of Bernie supporters in those groups, her chances in the GE are very poor indeed (regardless of who ends up emerging from theclown car).

then draw conclusions from that premise, it's not really a logical argument? That's pretty funny, really. Do reread the OP, please.

Do please note the use of the term "formal," and consider its ramifications. The OP was obviously not intended as a formal logical argument, but instead as a simple speculative opinion. In such informal situations as this, falling back on more-formal analysis is nothing more than pedantry (and utterly transparent deflection, I might add).

Among minorities are terrible. Why is that any different? Guess the most popular candidate is the one who gets the most votes.

Bernie's numbers among African Americans are (inexplicably) poor, no doubt. But African Americans are not (to the surprise of some, it seems) the only minority in this country. Bernie's numbers among Latinos are good, and they're great among Asians, Native Americans, Native Hawaiians, and other minorities.

I should not have used minorities indiscriminately although I would argue the evidence that has been available has indicated his numbers among Latinos have not been "good". Although he seems to have done better with them than among blacks.

...then the party has to make a painful and difficult but pragmatic decision. It's becoming obvious that it will not be possible, this election, to have both groups. So which is bigger? Which is more important in swing states? The DNC seems to have made their call on this.

That's what the elections are for. If by some extremely unlikely chance Sanders were to catch up in pledged delegates I think it's likely the superdelegates would follow. It wouldn't be a very hard choice in that case because that outcome would require a true Sanders wave over these last 2 months in states very favorable to Hillary. Of course the much more likely outcome is the opposite will happen.

Just saying...

As the adults in the room, we have no problem letting you kids have your little temper tantrums.

Hold your breath, though, because that's always hilarious to watch.

cool story bro.

Post #22 that you are so proud of refers to "evidence". That's interesting because it's exactly what is completely absent from this entire thread.

You're not worth providing evidence to. You'd refuse to be convinced...so I wont waste my time. Good day to you.

You're of course free to take it however you want. I'm not interested in your opinion.

Thanks for sharing.

... so far. If she wins the primary, it's going to cost her in the end.

I like Democrats, and both of our presidential candidates have their strength's and weaknesses - either would be a great president.

I can't imagine what it's like to hate one so much that you feel the need to attack everybody who reasonably disagrees with you.

I'm already drinking a latte', so that puts me halfway there...



Glad you agree Bernie would be a great president.

340 for a chocolate stick.

I'll stick with my 250 calorie breakfast sandwich that has a thing known as protein in it.

I have my doubts about both candidates this cycle. In '08, Obama was the easy choice once he got rolling, I don't see the kind of candidate that can easily cause people to convert from one to the other this cycle. I don't feel good when I insult our candidates, I think I'm a "root for the underdog" sort, so whenever I see unfair attacks on either candidate, it gets my attention. I just hide most of these threads, but occasionally I feel the need to speak up. Basically this means I have no friends here. (Watch me pout now.) Actually, I think "grouping up" is a bad idea as it tends to reinforce the whole preconceived bias thing (I hate when I know there's a more clever way to say this, but I can't recall the phrase at this time.) I think you know what I mean.

a standard 16 oz. mocha runs Calories 360 with 140 of those being fat-based calories! Not good for losing weight!


I think you're referring to confirmation bias, and I'm totally on board with you. I've tried to be more center-of-the-road regarding the two candidates in the past as well, so I totally understand the not having friends on either side thing.

What really forced me to "pick a side" was the continual ad hominem from a wide number of Hillary supporters.

There were a few HRC supporters who wanted to talk issues, and were civil... and they were ones I enjoyed talking with, and I was more than willing to hear them out... giving their thoughts due consideration... but I almost never see them post any more, and I almost always see divisiveness and rejection of valid concerns from the Hillary camp anymore.

That and immense amounts of disingenuous attacks that, at any non-primary moment, would never be considered legitimate at DU.

So... no doughnuts.... how about popcorn?

Confirmation bias! Damnit, middle age isn't doing wonders for my recall - lol.

I found out popcorn I like has 360 calories per bag, but more stomach churning, ~12G of saturated fat.

I think if you move back to the center-of-the-road and some point, and can forgive those who've become mortal enemies, you'd probably find that the attacks are more balanced that you think. Meaning some are less offensive that they seem at first blush, while at the same time both sides make a fair number of these attacks, especially if you consider the >5:1 ratio of Bernie supporters to Hillary supporters. I'm not going to try to convince you of this, it's just my observation.

*sigh* I need to try to convert to black coffee, which only has 2 calories per 16 oz cup... problem is, I've never been a fan of plain black coffee.

Oddly enough, I actually have less issue with the insults, and more an issue with the Hillary supporters who pretend that media articles only matter when they post them. And that every article that shows Hillary in a less-than-flattering light is actually just RW media/trolls. Never mind the enormous amounts of data that can be shown on any given issue.

In fact, I've posted copious links in the past that support the OP I posted... from credible sources, and received nothing but scorn, ridicule, character assassination, and was told to stop posting RW smears... all from HRC supporters... never mind that it was from a liberal source.

But anyway... I digress. For now, I'll keep doing what I do; engage those willing to actually converse, and probably rile up those who don't like facts or who choose not to refute what they disagree with. I'll come back to a more of a middle ground eventually

to get the neo-liberal and neo-conservative and entrenched rot in general out of the Democratic Party.

They may be willing to write off a POTUS term and let the Party (and nation) burn for renewal.

I am not there but others are and it is a valid position.

Some people have been pushed into a particular stance because supporters of the opposition were absolutely terrible to deal with.

Anyway. I hope Bernie wins so we can avoid all the potential nastiness that could rear its head.

... who put their own anger and self-righteousness above the good of the country.

I mean being angry and self-righteous about demanding votes count and railing against voter suppression is so undemocratic...right?

Getting desperate, aren't we?

Resorting to threats now? Too bad, so sad.

You're very much mistaken if you think that.

Bernie will be running as an anti-establishment self-described socialist, with literally millions of extremely motivated followers. Hillary will be running with the rich liberals, DC dems, and "We need a female president right now" voters, but more baggage than will fit in the White House, and a bunch of youngsters and old school liberals who believe via the Sanders campaign that they don't have to settle for a candidate who is in favor of war, wall street, torture, privatization, capital punishment, and job-killing and wage-killing trade deals.

Independent vote. Hillary supporters can deny this fact all they want. Doesn't make it less true.

Just as Hillary's PUMAs were a tiny, tiny minority in 2008.

Once the losing candidate concedes, and campaigns for the winner, all is healed over. They are able to see the big picture.

Also, just like Starbucks, all over the country. Just a few short blocks from each other in some cases.

Donut?

Is really just too much.

Worst evils list

1. Kissinger (Clinton)
2. Cruz
3. Trump

I'll continue trying to keep Kissinger out and defeat the worst evil.
Enough brown children around the world have already died because of that hag.
I KNOW I will be saving lives by getting anyone but Clinton in.

Best Choice list:
1. Sanders
2. Kasich (who is actually extreme right but probably not a warhawk who will kill more kids like Clinton absolutely will.)

Clinton means a guaranteed Iran war. At least another 100 thousand dead. And, escalated wars all over the world.

I will vote to stop her no matter what. I will not waste my vote and stay home. I will do it knowing I am saving lives and knowing Cruz will bend to the war machine too if I have to vote for him to stop her. But, Cruz is not as corruptly connected as Clinton yet. She has decades on him. She will be the death of more children than he. I will choose saving the most lives. I will vote to stop Kissenger.

I will leave this site when I unregister as a Democrat and go independent. Which is the only thing I will be doing if Bernie doesn't win the nomination. I am only staying with this corrupt DNC because of Sanders, hoping he turns it around. I will not stay for Hillary's war party. I will never continue being a democrat with THAT and .01% corruption being the party. I will be joining a mass exodus from the DNC and knowing I was continue to be on the right side of history. Hillary supporters will be like her, consistently on the wrong side of history. War and killing is always the wrong side.

The indies as well as the millennials will stay home to a great
degree.~10-14% of registered Dems will do the same.

The threat of Trump or Cruz will not work in case the
nominee faces Ryan or Kasich.

08 election is no comparison, because it was the anti-Bush
mood of the country.

This year it will be the anti- establishment mood which
will prevail.

But it is of no use to point this out, because the course
has been set.