political spectrum. Polling shows that Sanders is a much stronger candidate.

Sanders would win.

Can destroy Bernie in 10 minutes.

What's taking Hillary so long? Seems she started this race way ahead in the polls. What's taking her so long to do what you say the Republican's can do in 10 minutes?

She's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Thinks she is. 93% liklihood of winning the nomination and Democratic candidate at 74% of winning the general. So I guess a lot of people think she can win.

Including Hillary. They've been wrong. He would be a far tougher general election candidate than Hillary. Independents love him. They do not like Hillary. That said, I think she's the favorite to win the nomination and probably the General. Is she our best candidate? No, not even close- on policy or electibility.

It's just the experience and knowledgw of history. The GOP lies and steaks and tricks. Like Karl Rove.

Is she more liked or trusted? Any polls showing she does better versus the top Republicans than he does? He should want to run against her. His horrible staple of candidates at least has a chance against someone like her.

she will unite them like nothing we have ever seen

Telling and frightening. Telling because the GOP has done it's opposition research against both Sanders and Clinton and they found more damaging info against Clinton than Sanders. Frightening because of what will happen if Hillary is the nominee in the GE.

arsenal.

The fact that after 30 years of Republican hate against her has almost certainly ensured that no Republicans or right leaning independents will jump ship and vote for her. Unlike many Republicans and right leaning independents who have said they would vote for Bernie.

Also, the shadiness of the Clinton Foundation is not going to help.

...can you imagine a Trump/Clinton debate? Trump would destroy her.

From, unless you live in New Mexico... The Rs are heading for a brokered convention. They do not want Trump, or Cruz for that matter

Independents, both left and right, who will decide the election just don't like her by a wide margin.

and preference is.

He's only looking out for our best interests.

Apparently the Benghazi report has been timed for release around the conventions. Convenient. And that will be the tip of the iceberg. Bernie wouldn't be a cake walk with his socialist background, but Hillary is going to be a nightmare.

Never occurs to Bernie fans that maybe Reince isn't being candid.

If anything he said was false. Since everything he said is pretty on the button, I would say he has a fair point

....but I do think that the Republican candidate would have much more to throw at Hillary. I think they would start with the late '80s and bring it all up to date.

They have.

Also, how did "I will raise your taxes" work out for Mondale?

Really bad idea to trust him.

I know the higher tax thing scares some, I can't deny that. However, I do believe that more people in the states are seeing how people in other countries live and they want to know why we can't have it here.

Mondale was a long time ago and the internet has made the world much smaller. When I talked about universal healthcare in the 70's I had a hard time explaining it to people. Not so much now, people are starting (here) to understand it better.

But, I think there's a false sense of security that's been developing because Clinton hasn't really punched from the right on it, not very hard at all. People assume she always throws her hardest, nastiest punch.

Debate in general election would be a lot harsher on the reality of the plan, its costs, etc. there was a giant freakout when 2% of the population lost their corporate junk insurance policies.

Imagine the freakout when the issue becomes 75% of the population forced to give up their employer plans for a brand new, untested government program (Medicare isn't single payer).

....as someone who has a foot in America and a foot in Sweden. It is very hard to get Americans to change anything. (think metric system) I think it's because the country is so large that it is really many little countries banded together, similar to the EU.

There would definite growing pains with a new system, but I do think it would be a step in the right direction. I think it's hard for people here to really understand how it works and I know it wouldn't work the same as the Swedish system.

I do agree that many would freak out.

that the end-state is a good goal, the next step is to show how they would achieve that goal without massive disuptions and costs.

my wife takes an expensive biologic paid for by her employer insurance. without it she wouldn't be able to walk, or eat solid food.

I would need a guarantee--not a promise, but an absolute guarantee--that we would have coverage at all times before I'd even consider supporting a switch directly to single payer.

You are very fortunate that the biologic is covered and if it were me I would want the same guarantee. Games cannot be played with peoples' lives.

My Dad has cancer and will soon be on a med that is $6000 per month and only $200 is covered by Medicare and BC/BS. In Sweden it is much, much cheaper. When the time comes I will take my Dad back home to get his meds. While we can do this to get around the high fees, most cannot. No one should ever be denied medication because of money.

Best wishes for your wife.

If she had anything on Bernie, she would have used it as soon as she realized he was a real threat.

precisely because he's not a real threat at this point.

the question isn't who will be the nominee, it's how long she has to delay setting up her swing state GOTV operations etc and end the nasty fighting of this campaign.

She's going to win big in NY-PA-MD and then this race should get a lot less negative.

My gut says he will get within 5 at least. Possibly more if the lines aren't too long and sites are organized and numerous.

Too funny.

all of the facts, all the polls, say as much. You all make it sound like what he is saying has no factual backing. She isn't trusted, is not nearly as well liked and Sanders polls better versus all of his candidates. He leads a horrible party, but all the facts at this point show that his party would do better versus Clinton. Talk smack all you want, you have nothing at all to back it up at this point. Nothing.

But he is. They cannot wait to unleash the hounds because they already are...somewhat

They prefer her. And here is where the half comes. Anybody but trump...party mantra.

when it benefits Bernie? He MUST be telling the truth, why would he want to further undermine the front runner by stoking anti Hillary sentiment in the primary? It wouldn't hurt Hillary down the road would it? Noooo

talking points. What a revolution

Nope.

Remember, let's keep it friendly bettyellen.. That's your motto.

It is a fondness to explain away every differing opinion with "they were paid for it" that is bullshit here.
What hilarious is that now we have tons of brand new posters hurling accusations- they are more likely to be paid shills, but common sense does not prevail here any longer. Many people are being so hostile I have to assume they are being paid- by the GOP, to make BOTH candidates look bad. That is how much they suck. I don't think they are doing this for either Dem candidate.

I have been here a few months, but at the least I can supply credentials to what I have done in my time as Democrat. There are a lot of under 100 posts authors of late making both sides look really bad.

For noting that SBS original campaign stump speech and website completely omitted any stance on reproductive rights.
People immediately went on the defensive in a very nasty way. Because I pointed out an uncomfortable truth. And then I was alert stalked 24/7.
Same thing happened to many members of the African American forum, serious harassment. The standards here dropped to allow personal insults- which were never okay before- because we were flooded with nasty posters and it became a norm overnight. I think most of them were never Dems and are not voting Dem in November. It is what it is.

I left Kos for similar reasons, but never accused like that.

Enjoy the rest of your day B.E.

I like Bernie, and love many people who support him in real life. Here at DU- people are playing games.
Does not suit me at all.
Thanks and have a good weekend!

And you are right - he should have that on his webpage. He has publicly stated multiple times (and his record supports this) that he is 100% pro-choice/supports Planned Parenthood/thinks they should get more money and will go after the governors and states that are chipping away at "a woman's right to choose" were (if I recall correctly) his exact words.

But regardless, no one should be going after you - you've been here for years.

We will get through these primary passions -- I am still sorry that happened to you!

All the Clinton supporters who cry Socialism and Free Stuff really ought to tone it down

supporters arguing against socialism. The free stuff refers to Bernie's inability to explain how he'd pay for that free stuff, or whether wealthier families who can afford college should be burdening the deficit with their free ride...

And there is a clear plan to pay for it.

And I have a message for the wealthier families... It's call the "Greater Good". Used to be something in America

Especially after the NYDN interview I just don't believe the possibility exists to implement Bernie's radical changes. Not only because of his lack of research, but because of the fact that the Republican Party still exists and still controls congress. Compromise is a key part of democracy, and you don't get what you want by thinking you're going to dictate to the right what's going to happen

Hence why we no longer have a monarchy or slavery

But the GOP has been dictating to the left what's going to happen and the frame of reference for policy for a long time, AND there was a time the situation was the opposite. Remember when universal health care and UBI was the *conservative* plan? Not even Bernie is proposing a UBI.

The plan, regardless of who you support in the primary is to get the "mainstream" back to that point.

I will give them the side eye, as always.

They aren't exactly "RW strategists".

It didn't fit what I needed to hear, but it was a sad realization of how far she's slid to the right.

As Bernie stated, Canada isn't a Communist Authoritarian government.

Countries all around the world are able to provide education and healthcare to it's citizens. For what we pay, we do a poor job providing these things, our priorities are misplaced.

agreeing with the RNC chairperson, on a Democratic website? Is this what Bernie Sanders has brought to the Democratic party? Nothing but hatred for Hillary. No unity whatsoever. Just anger, lies, right-wing smears. Sanders candidacy is very disappointing, I'll be glad when he's gone. He did not bring anything to the table whatsoever.

In the last 2 weeks. It's resembling fascism more than socialism at this point

think Hillary will just coast to the Presidency if she gets the nomination.

Wake up! The GOP is ready for Hillary. It has nothing to do with MY feeling for her.
IF she gets the nomination - she better win the Presidency, get it?

We had hatred for Hillary before Bernie. We hated her in 08 too. The GOP has so much baggage with Hillary, she is going to be easy to beat.

you acknowledged Bernie won't be the "Democratic" nominee..

She has huge unfavorables, much of the country will not vote for her and she is involved in an investigation


These aren't RW talking points, they are facts. Because someone we don't like said them, doesn't make it untrue

Fascinating revolution

Do I like either of those? No.

Do I support them? No.

Was Reince telling the truth? Factually speaking, yes.

Got it.

you know, I answer the question and you keep asking or twist my words, I get it.

So I will conclude that the answer he gave can be backed up with factual data (i.e. her unfavorables).

it's not me supporting the RNC. It's me supporting reality and common sense.

also believe all their "facts" without considering other information, the broader picture, or whether they have an agenda?

Revel in the wisdom and insight they bring to this discussion board!

start coming here quoting the RNC and using memes instead of thoughtful debate, you might have a point

You're ostensibly new here so lets go back in time shall we...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5258671

I certainly don't like it, although it is old and we are trying to concentrate on what's happening now. It's a fair point though you make. I would avoid adopting the sleazier tactics of campaigns if you want to inspire people though. Isn't that Bernies goal? To distinguish himself from that sort of thing? That's why I admire Gandhi so much and I believe that's why he was so successful. He never compromised his beliefs in order to win. He often said he'd rather fail than do that. That's a revolution I would join in a heartbeat.

in this instance, you have less of an appreciation of objective reality than Fox News, since the facts at this point are the facts. Might want to check your arrogance here, since it is you all that are saying things with no factual backing. If you can find the polls showing she has net positive likability, that she does better versus their candidates or is more trusted, posted them. Otherwise, again, you have less appreciation for the facts than Fox News. Stop and think about that before posting again, cause that ain't pretty.

cherry picked negatives without regard to the broader picture: Republicans often lie to split democrats, Bernie hasn't been tested in a general, the press hasn't started hitting Bernie hard yet, the RNC hasn't even begun to hit Bernie, polls this early are often found to be wrong in the general, Hillary's negatives are known and she still polls higher than the republican front runners, Bernie's an unknown compared to Hillary so what will happen in the polls when the spotlight truly hits him, like if he can't print a tax return how can he run a country... You may chuckle but ask all the other presidential hopefuls who were unknowns who lost due to one well designed RNC ad that was able to define the unknown candidate before the country formed a solid opinion of them.

That's just a beginner course for those who are swallowing these "facts" and early polls without considering the whole picture

the fact is that she isn't liked or trusted and has done worse than he has versus the Republicans for months now. The rest of what you said is a bunch of claims and I am going out on a limb and will say you can't predict the future, so what the hell do you have but a string of claims. As we sit here now, the facts are the facts.

She and her corrupt husband have gotten three billion from corporate and financial interests since they entered politics. She will not be able to focus on and critique their (the Republicans') corruption in the general election. That is a huge potential advantage she can't utilize because she has taken more of their (Wall Street's and multinational corporations') money than anyone in either party.

I knew you were an inferior debater and aren't really interested in the truth. I didn't bother to read the rest cause the heading tells me it's not worthy. Proceed with your Bernie blinders

I am not the one ignoring all the facts at this point in time. I have polls showing what people think right now and you have a bunch of claims about the future, and you want to claim I am the one with blinders. You're nuts if you think you're winning this debate.

All I am saying is that he did not pull some crazy answers out of his ass. He answered with some fact based analysis of why she would struggle. I don't like him and think he is an asshole. But what he said here is not some crazy idea.

...is pretty much what he laid out here, that he would fan the flames of dislike for Hillary and remind the people who don't like her of the reasons for their dislike (as well as inventing a few new ones).

I don't think we are on any kind of "wait and see" stand-by regarding charges being brought against her...I do not believe for a minute it will happen, period.

What I do believe is that every piece of film the RNC can get its hands on of Clinton, yelling, snapping at people, giving dirty looks when being asked questions she doesn't like...every frame of negative film, as well as film taken out of context (like her laughing out loud while they show some completely unrelated incident in split-screen)...it's all going to be used.

Their tactic is that a lot of people do not like Hillary Clinton. That is their "strategy."

in which case we are effed.

but Trump has made it clear his followers will riot against any candidate who steals it from him. Looking at the rallies I'd say he's right. Bernie or bust, remember? Yeah that works on the republican side too

....do not have anyone as likeable and decent as Bernie.

He is the better candidate against all Republicans. Hillary is not.

Bernie would be the GOP's worst nightmare.

And Mondale, and Dukakis...

unh-hunh.

Obama was less ahead of Hillary as Hillary is now ahead of Bernie, and still went on to win the primary and the presidency? The math... It's over for Bernie. Hillary will win and only Bernie supporters can now put a republican in office.

Who saved the country from itself, by getting himself nominated.

Bernie supporters despise because he often aligns with Hillary's policies?

Anyone here LISTENING???

Quoting Republican talking points and taking the bait on republican strategies to divide the democrats

RIGHT!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511744210

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107102458

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107102443

after Bernie went nuclear, full negative angry red face pull out all the stops Hillary will destroy humanity in order to win New York?

Does Sanders poll better versus top Republicans in the general?
Is she more trusted than he is?
Does she have better net-favorables?

Come on, prove these are "talking points" and not just objective reality. She is more beatable and is a horrible candidate.

Polls this early out are often wrong in November.

Yes or no - candidates that are mostly unknown to te country often collapse in the general election due to well crafted RNC ads.

Should I go on?

As we sit here right now, what do all the facts say? Your argument is basically that the Republicans' lies will cause a radical change in peoples' opinions of Sanders. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but you all have are claims and it seems complete confidence that he couldn't push back against their BS. You also seem to think they have nothing in waiting versus Clinton, which is just comical.

Again, what do the polls show right now, which is all the facts we have on the matter at this point? Come on, don't dodge answering my questions. At the very least acknowledge that these aren't "talking points", they are objective reality.

Sanders positives will fall lower than Clintons current negatives, yet her negatives will somehow either hold steady or magically become positives? Am I understanding you clearly? Is that your position?

The GOP faces a tough challenge. Their own candidate will be either eccentric or something well beyond eccentric. They're already dealing with uncertainty in their own ranks, so they might be more comfortable facing a mainstream Democratic candidate. At least they could employ the usual tactics, deploy the usual forces against the usual enemy, etc. Donald vs. Bernie would be chaos.

With all her baggage and lies, and Bills affairs. Why should we have to be subjected to hearing this SHIT again? That alone should disqualify the Clintons.

plus, he is liked while she is disliked, and he attracts independents -- who don't like Hill at all.

Yes, Bernie would give the Republicans a yuuge run for their money, while they would clean up handily against Clinton.

So let's defeat the Republicans: vote for Bernie Sanders, our best bet for the presidency!

He sees sure republican victory Bernie Sanders sinking fast so he throws a lifeline to him!

To late THUGS, Hillary is going to kick your ASS in the GE!

Because he's so busy screwing America that he always has to rinse it off.

... and they bite! LOL.

Never fails.

Someone who you can't guess their next move. Broad appeal. He could be lying, but I'm betting opposition research is struggling with Sanders, with Clinton they have everything they always used plus now her miserable term as secretary of state. Syria, Libya, Isis , can all be equated to her. Honduras as well.

She can't call the out against fracking, for she supports it. Nor Keystone.

She can't call them out on free trade deals, for we now see she supported NAFTA, TPP, and even lobbied for other congressmen to vote for the Colombian deal.

Clinton will have to defend her right leaning sides.. great more, "me too"

The one where Huckabee talks about how he likes Hillary more than Bernie. That was really telling because boy did he hate them back in the day.

that nobody votes in the primary based on what Priebus says........

especially if they manage to dump Trump. Ruining against Clinton WILL do that in spades.

.

by huge margins?

I'll bet it was a Hillary supporter who leaked those National polls.