If her last name wasn't Clinton she would never be considered for the spot.

Not that Hillary lied but that the Bush cabal didn't provide Congress with an intelligence estimate that was more supportive of their aims.

Made. Always follow the money.

Campaign 2016: Hillary Clinton Pitched Iraq As 'A Business Opportunity' For US

http://www.ibtimes.com/campaign-2016-hillary-clinton-pitched-iraq-business-opportunity-us-corporations-2121999

The intel was good. The truth was hidden and blatant lies told by BushCo.
Hillary knew this.

She thanked Shrub today for giving NY billions after 9/11 when she asked for it...then she paid him back. Her performance on the Senate floor reciting all the neocon talking points and saying "this is the hardest decision I've probably ever had to make" are worthy of an Oscar.

I wonder if she even bothered to read it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511751392

Good OP!

I especially like the video being in it - there is no arguing about her stance (with the caveat that we have the important date-and-time stamp to keep track of her evolving opinions).

making process as she built her "Bush Family" street cred.

The Cincinnati speech was full of lies which were directly contradicted by the NIE. This was pointed out in the commentary below:

Yes, Bush Lied
“Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists,” Bush said Oct. 7 in his nationally televised Cincinnati speech. “Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving fingerprints.” The terrorists he was referring to were “al-Qaida members.”

By telling Americans that Saddam could “on any given day” slip unconventional weapons to al-Qaida if America didn’t disarm him, the president misrepresented the conclusions of his own secret intelligence report, which warned that Saddam wouldn’t even try to reach out to al-Qaida unless he were attacked and had nothing to lose – and might even find that hard to do since he had no history of conducting joint terrorist operations with al-Qaida, and certainly none against the U.S.

If that’s not lying, I don’t know what is.

So no surprise if she didn't read this too

for sure.

If her IWR vote plays a factor in her failure to win the presidency, the "bad judgment" part was a miscalculation on how it would serve her political ambitions in the long run.

If she read the classified NIE, which was available to her Hillary Clinton had to know the campaign to sell the war was a lie, and she repeated those lies.

and that should be her legacy...

Except she wasn't one of the architects.

I hate the duplicitous behavior. Always an angle.

Actually no, from what you posted, that's not the answer. It says the NIE was sent to the Senate... there is no evidence there that she read it. In fact, the rest of the article says she probably at least didn't read the full 92 page classified version (there's no indication either way as to whether she read the 5 page unclassified summary). I'm not sure which explanation is worse.

so you're just voting for incompetent and dishonest, instead of competent and dishonest...

I guess that's a fair way to read it... lol

I would add this paragrpah as well:

"Senators Bob Graham and Patrick Leahy would later say that reading the classified version helped convince them to vote ‘no.’ And during a lunch two days before Clinton’s speech, according to Gerth and Van Natta Jr., Graham “forcefully” urged his Democratic Senate colleagues to read it."

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/whats-missing-from-hillary-clintons-iraq-war-apology/372427/

Last edited Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

... you can, I don't hate her like that.

EDITED from she wasn't given the details till after the vote... my bad

"Senators Bob Graham and Patrick Leahy would later say that reading the classified version helped convince them to vote ‘no.’ And during a lunch two days before Clinton’s speech, according to Gerth and Van Natta Jr., Graham “forcefully” urged his Democratic Senate colleagues to read it."

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/whats-missing-from-hillary-clintons-iraq-war-apology/372427/

She DEFINITELY had access to it before the vote. 100%

... get my vote.. dogmatic and ridged to the end.

Some people value someone who's wrong on an issue all the time, show's their tough and principled... like Bush

I value the recognition that something better could be done and doing better in the future

That's just funny.

He has positions that he doesn't change based on popular opinion.

That's a rarity in politics, but that doesn't make him inflexible. It makes him trustworthy.

I literally can NEVER trust a word that comes out of Hillary's mouth due to her "flexability".

Do you honestly think she's opposed to TPP? That's she's really changed her mind about gay rights? Etc etc.

I'd much rather have someone whose position is clear, and consistent with the rest of his beliefs... I may not agree but I know the things I do agree with aren't going to flip flop if they get unpopular. And that's worth more to me than any pseudopopulist flexibility.

I'd also note - and I say this with all due respect - that you were wrong about Hillary and the NIE. Maybe you should take that as a sign that there's other beliefs of yours about Hillary that might Also be wrong. Like about her role in Syria. And Honduras, for example. Her friendship with Mubarak. Her priorities at State. Her dishonesty re transparency with her Foundation, including breaking a major promise to Obama. Etc etc.

You moved it so far away I can't see it.

that poster is sometimes very brave and has a nak... er... knack for words. Or word salad, if you will.

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Oh and to cost America trillions of dollars while leaving tens of thousands of American veterans with horrific injuries and trauma that has already resulted in thousands of suicides.

It was all Hillary's fault.

But I put most in the gullible and naive category with a healthy dose of caustic mixed in.

It took a lot of support to get his fraud of a war on, and Hillary lined up with him. That's the fact.

after the vote, out of your ass.

Why would you do such a thing?

No one with enough intelligence to type a sentence could type those sentences with sincerity.

There's no way around it. It can't just be dismissed, and no one that had access to this and supported it deserves our vote ever.

It was not only a raid on our countries treasure, but in the lives of our soldiers, their families, and the countless innocents who died and continue to suffer today as a result of the massive destabilization and chaos this brought to the region. Not to mention the advancement of further terroristic behaviors/retaliation as a result.

... still acts as if Sanders can chunk that stone he has in his hand.

Hit by a drunk driver, and the car wasn't faulty. Why on earth would I sue the gun manufacturer?

Sanders is against militarized weapons being sold to the public. But if the weapon is legally obtained, the gun shop and manufacturer shouldn't be liable. If you have an issue with marketing, change the marketing laws, if you have an issue with the weapons, restrict access. Legally obtained, functional weapons are not the fault of the legal seller/manufacturer. If the manufacturer sells it to someone illegally, then sure - fare game. But then aand only then if it isn't faulty.

And just so we are crystal clear. I support the idea that we need the most stringent limitations on gun ownership. Mental Health clearance not just for owners, but dependent a or anyone living in the home who may have access. No guns for any criminal record resulting in jail, or violent crime including alcohol related (dui). Imp, if you don't have the judgement on when to get behind the wheel, you wouldn't have the judgement on when to touch a gun or not. I'm annoyed that the Sandy Hook families aren't pushing congress harder, and making light of the sums of money they are taking from the NRA - like Clinton currently is, while real legislation stalls.

... and that's what Sanders overtly immoral vote has done. There's no pretrial motions for the gun makers, that's disgussting

That would require an operating device. Cars can be equipped with those, and some with dui's are required to have them added. That still doesn't make the auto manufacturer responsible.

The only way I would hold fault is if the individual purchasing was drunk at time of purchase, or did not meet the legal requirement.

... what direction its looked at Sanders vote was immoral and he still to this day supports it.

Gun corps shouldn't have immunity from magistrates and pretrials like all other corps, that's for the judges to decided and not congress

He voted against gun manufacturers being sued when their product performed exactly as it was supposed to perform. Why should any manufacturer be sued for that?

Are you out on the streets demanding that auto makers be sued whenever a drunk driver kills someone? Are you demanding that toaster manufacturers get sued when someone puts one in the bubble bath with them? Do you know how crazy it is to allow victims of shootings to sue a gun manufacturer because the weapon is doing what it was intended to do and did not malfunction?

That's not how you solve the gun problems we face. That's how you make the US an even more litigious society than it already is and it's already way out of control with frivolous lawsuits crowding the courts. Sheesh.

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... votes like this are huge tell tale's that he's a shit talker and not a movement maker

So much fail in all your posts. Keep flailing... it only makes so many things more obvious.

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where hundreds of thousands of innocent people are killed and out of which Isis is born.

That's just peachy.

Btw... did you google her buddy Kissinger yet? Don't forget!

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Why do you support war?

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... war so from there everything else falls apart.

I don't support war nor hatred of a person

Really, you should read the OP. ESPECIALLY since you keep posting in its thread. It's generally not wise to say you don't believe in facts. It may be somewhat brave, but you should have a better nak... er... knack for words if you are going to continue doing so.

And did you ever google Kissinger? You said you didn't know about him, you should check it out and maybe you'll wonder why you support someone who reveres him so.

Oh, wait, I forgot, you don't care about facts, you just believe what you want to believe. And Hillary thinks it's the millenials who don't bother to do their research.

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... is usually formed from speculation.

There's usually never a proffering of facts that aren't in dispute

Rather than just using that blanket excuse that anyone who criticizes someone you support hates them, how about you actually put forth a rebuttal? Using facts, of course.

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... something that's NOT in dispute and take the conversation from there.

Hate precludes them seeing someone eles's perspective and shuts down willingness to listen at all.

So From the OP title I disagree with the premise she lied at all

You're just a noun, a verb and hate.

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Read important shit like whether to kill innocent people.

But, it's not being ignored on social media nearly as much. If it wasn't for message boards all this stuff would be going on completely under the radar.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but I remember Kucinich made some comments on this - either that he was the only person who read the thing, or that none of them had time to read it before the vote

And some - a few - did. Hillary has refused to answer whether or not she did, but I hope since she spoke so definitively about its contents that she did.

The alternative is that she pretended to know what the intelligence services were saying... Bob Graham who DID read it encouraged her to read it two days before the vote - saying that after he read it he changed his vote to "No".

So I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that she wouldnt vote to invade a country and send thousands of Americans to their deaths without bothering to read the short document that laid out what the intelligence community thought...

She definitely had access to it, she was encouraged to read it by someone who had, and she spoke about the intelligence like she HAD read it.

Neither option reflects well in her.

just had their staffers read it.

That was the Patriot Act!

I need to go back and re-listen to his his speeches on the IWR.

It's hard to know which is worse. Exercising cold blooded self interest and ambition at the expense of the lives of US soldiers and innocent civilians.
vs. Being a US senator with decades of political involvement and falling for Bush's lies.

I think she has asserted the latter, but the former is closer to the truth. She wanted to believe him. I suspect she believed it would be quick and easy and she would come out as a heroic supporter who got revenge for NY.

and all voted yes. Sanders voted yes on the AUMF. This was a f*ed up mess and I still think *co should be in the dock at the Hague.

The AUMF wasn't what got us into Iraq.

Why did Hillary parrot Bush's lies about Saddam harbouring Al Qaeda?

They treat it as though it's inconsequential and irrelevant, hey she already apologized, what more do you want?

millions of dollars for "the city of New York"..

This was her "set of experiences" with Bush which gave her different perspective on the question of honesty wrt to Bush et al.

Just saying, she answered this question, she sold her vote, and that was that, and besides that was a long time ago, and we're supposed to just get over it.

Hillary supporters here are sooo over it.

including the GOP.

That might have something to do with it. How does she lie with herself knowing what she did? She has to be a sociopath to have done that and continue to lie about it and STILL think she should be president.

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She is despicable. Maybe she owns shares of Haliburton?

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There's more than one way to profit from war.

Bush, Cheney, Rummy, the whole PNAC crowd are most to blame and on the outside chance there is a hell they should rot in it. Lied us into it and some profited massively as war profiteers.

However blame also goes to all those enablers who gave the thumbs up. I lean toward most non conservatives who voted yes knowing better but being afraid of the fallout from voting no.

Bless people like Phil Donahue and damn MNSBC for firing him for just questioning the rush to "shock and awe". Thank you Bernie and the precious few others who both were not dumb and not afraid to vote correctly.

This war has been historically costly in lives and dollars, and as bad a man as he was Saddam kept the various sects at bay. The vacuum created by him being deposed has led to ISIS and other crazy religious terrorist groups who are savagely killing people and destroying so many historical sites.

Judgement and the courage of your convictions....that is Bernie, not Hillary.

"cut it out"

They and their families deserve to know the truth no matter how long it takes.

Progressives and liberals, you know, what the Democratic Party is supposed to be comprised of, are against war. How come you aren't?

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For her planned presidential run. Blew up in her face.

Well put!

Those who would condone it are voting for Hillary.

There is really no other way to spin it.

no matter the cost and any way that can get it done quickly.

This does not surprise me in the least.

What this does though...it pretty much shows Bush up for what he is (along with his admin) and heads should roll.

They won't though, will they?

and a vote for Clinton is a vote to send more soldiers over there to die!