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Ino

(3,366 posts)
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:23 PM Apr 2016

Hillary clarifies her stance on $15 min wage...

Lest anyone think she flip-flopped entirely on the issue, she is now making it clear that she only wanted to give that impression by leaving out all her caveats...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-minumum-wage_us_57139f45e4b06f35cb6fd5da

Clinton said she would sign a $15 minimum wage bill put forth by Democrats if it had certain stipulations in it. The new wage floor would have to be phased in gradually and the effects of the hike would have to be evaluated in areas with lower costs of living.


So, just like the question on whether or not she opposes fracking,* or will she release her transcripts, or does she support lifting the Social Security cap,** there are so many conditions attached to her "yes" answer that it actually means "no".

* http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/03/hillary-clinton-debate-fracking
Bernie Sanders had a simple answer: "No, I do not support fracking."

Hillary Clinton, though, needed more time to outline three conditions in a more nuanced answer on fracking. She's against it "when any locality or any state is against it," "when the release of methane or contamination of water is present," and "unless we can require that anybody who fracks has to tell us exactly what chemicals they are using."


** http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/15/us/politics/transcript-democratic-presidential-debate.html
SANDERS: — maybe I’m a little bit confused. Are you or are you not supporting legislation to lift the cap on taxable income and expand Social Security for 58 years and increase benefits...

CLINTON: I am...

SANDERS: — yes or no?

CLINTON: I have said yes, we are going to pick the best way or combination...

SANDERS: Oh, you — ah. OK.

CLINTON: — or combination of ways...

(BOOS)

CLINTON: — you know — it — it’s all — it’s always a little bit, uh, challenging because, you know, if Senator Sanders doesn’t agree with how you are approaching something, then you are a member of the establishment. Well, let me say then...

SANDERS: Well, look...

CLINTON: — let me say this...we are going to extend the Social Security Trust Fund. We’ve got some good ideas to do it. Let’s get a Congress elected...

BLITZER: Thank you.

CLINTON: — that will actually agree...

BLITZER: Well, thank you...

CLINTON: — with us in doing it.

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary clarifies her stance on $15 min wage... (Original Post) Ino Apr 2016 OP
Is it raining out? "Weather is a complex matter...This requires further study. ." Armstead Apr 2016 #1
A weathervane might be in order. ..nt TeeYiYi Apr 2016 #3
But we need 10 otehr weather-vanes to ensure that the first weather-vane is accurate Armstead Apr 2016 #6
I'll look into that. TeeYiYi Apr 2016 #9
Closer: "After I went to work for the Childrens Defense Fund, but before my Bin Laden raid..." CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #13
Oh No....Not loreum ipsum. The Big Bad One! Armstead Apr 2016 #19
Have you ever met anyone like that, who just loses you in words? CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #22
yep Armstead Apr 2016 #23
Well let's see... SHRED Apr 2016 #15
thanks, I'm stealing that from you nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #36
No problem...I did. :-) SHRED Apr 2016 #44
it all plays into her situational ethics & moral flexibility... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #43
try not to starve as we phase in relief roguevalley Apr 2016 #17
When a yes or no question can't be answered with a simple "yes", then the answer is "no". CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #2
Her answer is always, "Well . . . . . the way I see it . . . . " pdsimdars Apr 2016 #10
If there is a next debate - there it is - the drinking game! Everytime Hillary answers a question jillan Apr 2016 #24
Alcohol poisoning is no fun DJ13 Apr 2016 #38
Lol!! jillan Apr 2016 #42
The release of methane is *always* present n/t Blue Meany Apr 2016 #4
I'm ok with nuance, not so much with weasle words... Blue Meany Apr 2016 #11
The caveat about places with lower costs of living is valid griffi94 Apr 2016 #5
She always gives herself plausible deniability so later no one can say she flipped or flopped. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #7
She and the "inside the beltway" may think she's too clever by half and admire her "flexibility" pdsimdars Apr 2016 #12
$15 now or in three years.... peace13 Apr 2016 #8
I guess that's another case of beedle Apr 2016 #14
Her stance on the death penalty follows the same pattern. Broward Apr 2016 #16
"we are going to pick the best way or combination..." Autumn Apr 2016 #18
I like how she tried to blame... Ino Apr 2016 #28
She never accepts responsibility. Autumn Apr 2016 #30
I'm surprised she didn't say it was a sexist question. Marr Apr 2016 #40
What a champion! Scuba Apr 2016 #20
Oy . . . someone bring me the decoder ring. Nanjeanne Apr 2016 #21
Compared to what the Republicans are offering, this bickering about $12 or $15 is stupid Dem2 Apr 2016 #25
Yeah but it's the whole package deal with Hillary that is the problem. Kalidurga Apr 2016 #26
I don't know, I'm not obsessed with hating her Dem2 Apr 2016 #29
If you really think that you haven't been paying attention. Kalidurga Apr 2016 #31
Well that's either an ad hominem or I don't know what it is Dem2 Apr 2016 #32
Nah you are probably busy and have a life Kalidurga Apr 2016 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Apr 2016 #41
Sanders doesn't support $15 either. His "plan" takes so long to phase in Hoyt Apr 2016 #27
So in other words... Corporate666 Apr 2016 #34
that's like saying "yes" while shaking your head "no" nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #35
why doesn't she just say clearly & directly what she believes without obfuscation? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #37
She has said again and again the sweet spot for Dem support in the senate is 12$- which means that bettyellen Apr 2016 #39
 

CentralCoaster

(1,163 posts)
13. Closer: "After I went to work for the Childrens Defense Fund, but before my Bin Laden raid..."
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:40 PM
Apr 2016

"...President Obama and I worked on this. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, at eam eligendi scaevola. Vix tale etiam interpretaris te. Singulis quaerendum est in, at usu iisque nonumes inimicus, no dicit intellegat rationibus cum. Ea vim adhuc disputando, cum te utroque percipit. Pro falli veritus civibus cu, percipit disputationi usu et. Ne cum nibh comprehensam, mei in alia nominavi scriptorem. Ut has graeci fierent propriae, graeco mnesarchum efficiantur eum ne. Ea tantas possit ius. Ea eripuit epicuri sensibus mei. Te sea reque veritus gloriatur.

Eruditi democritum et per, omnis nonumes his cu, ex nam iusto facilis cotidieque. Vix an illud decore consulatu, mea ne facete percipitur. Usu ex nulla salutatus, cu mea etiam augue. Eos ad erant sensibus, an eum stet apeirian, cu est quando petentium. In sea animal vivendum, probo populo apeirian has ad. Prima debet vix ea, et populo vidisse dolorum vis. Pri ex cetero recteque intellegam, sea populo essent adolescens cu, ex laoreet posidonium deterruisset usu. Omnis exerci consetetur no quo.

So, I'll look into it.

 

CentralCoaster

(1,163 posts)
22. Have you ever met anyone like that, who just loses you in words?
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:49 PM
Apr 2016

I confess that my SO is that way, just can't do yes or no.

Hillary is epic, and I think part of it is evasiveness but another part is just "Won't Shut Up"-- loves the sound of her own voice.

Further, she takes advantage of chances to brag on herself, change the subject, and basically run out the clock.

For me, if it's a yes or no question and you don't get to yes or no in the first five words, I'm gonna tune out.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
43. it all plays into her situational ethics & moral flexibility...
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:44 PM
Apr 2016

It's really whatever works for her at any given moment.

I've spent my life standing up for what I believe in. Equality. Justice. Economic fairness. And standing up for these things has put me in conflict with the entirety of the GOP, and sadly more of the Democratic Party than I ever hoped to lock horns with.

The party is changing. Either people embrace the future (which is far more congruent with European-style Democratic Socialism than 1990s-era DLC centrism). Hillary represents a step backwards, and embracing the past as future. I fail to see that as progressive.

It doesn't make her the devil. It just makes her out of step with the new generation of Democrats, who do not shift there views and beliefs on a moments notice. The arc of the Democratic party's history bends to the left, and there is no good reason we should attempt to bend it back to the right.

Vote Bernie ... We don't need to relive the past.

 

CentralCoaster

(1,163 posts)
2. When a yes or no question can't be answered with a simple "yes", then the answer is "no".
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:27 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary is incapable of answering a yes or no question with a simple answer.

She's disqualified for that reason, among countless others.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
24. If there is a next debate - there it is - the drinking game! Everytime Hillary answers a question
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:54 PM
Apr 2016

with WELL - take a drink!

 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
11. I'm ok with nuance, not so much with weasle words...
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:39 PM
Apr 2016

The problem wouldn't be that those conditions represent her actual position. For example, I foresee that she will curtail fracking a little bit, but she will stipulate the pollution has to reach a certain percentage of the water table, or the methane release have to reach a certain level and be verified by independent scientests who have no funding to monitor it, or that local people have a say in this so long as they own the land and none of them have signed a contract with a fracking company. Then she will say "We have ended dirty fracking as part of our transition to clean energy."

griffi94

(3,733 posts)
5. The caveat about places with lower costs of living is valid
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:30 PM
Apr 2016

In rural Texas some of the places have pretty low costs of living
so $15.00 an hour there wouldn't really be feasible since the local
market couldn't bear it.

A living wage indexed to local economics might be better.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
7. She always gives herself plausible deniability so later no one can say she flipped or flopped.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:32 PM
Apr 2016

A flip-flop is built in to her answers. She can do whatever she wants and will always have an alibi.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
12. She and the "inside the beltway" may think she's too clever by half and admire her "flexibility"
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:40 PM
Apr 2016

But the public sees her as the LEAST Trustworthy among all of the candidates.
So, while she and hers may think it's clever, real people don't buy it.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
8. $15 now or in three years....
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:36 PM
Apr 2016

....it was needed yesterday! She says $12 creeping to $15 sometime in the future! Yes to $15......sometime.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
14. I guess that's another case of
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:41 PM
Apr 2016

where Hillary can't speak to an issue that's been on the table for ever, one that she just took fucking credit for in NYC .. and she gets a pass by the MSM.

Where Sanders is asked about a days old court case, whose written decision has not even been released as yet, and when he said "I need to study it" ... Sanders was declared 'unprepared'.

Journalists today ... people with a 4 year degree in 'how to sit in a chair and get your makeup done' .. and have read the 'hooked on phonics' book.

Ino

(3,366 posts)
28. I like how she tried to blame...
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:06 PM
Apr 2016

her refusal to give a straight answer on Bernie saying she's Establishment.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
40. I'm surprised she didn't say it was a sexist question.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:32 PM
Apr 2016

Oh wait-- I just remembered, her fans here DID claim that.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
25. Compared to what the Republicans are offering, this bickering about $12 or $15 is stupid
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:56 PM
Apr 2016

So utterly stupid.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
26. Yeah but it's the whole package deal with Hillary that is the problem.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 06:59 PM
Apr 2016

So, this is just one facet of the problem with Hillary.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
29. I don't know, I'm not obsessed with hating her
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:09 PM
Apr 2016

The differences between Hillary and Bernie are so slight compared to the Republicans.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
32. Well that's either an ad hominem or I don't know what it is
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:17 PM
Apr 2016

I personally am obsessed with politics but I'm sure you think I'm an idiot for not agreeing with you.

Response to Dem2 (Reply #25)

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
27. Sanders doesn't support $15 either. His "plan" takes so long to phase in
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:01 PM
Apr 2016

that it's nowhere near $15 anytime soon. Besides, he couldn't get it enacted, even if elected.

Corporate666

(587 posts)
34. So in other words...
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:27 PM
Apr 2016

..she is actually being smart about it, rather than being a populist pandering selfish doublespeaking politician?

What a breath of fresh air.

Bernie ignores the fact that $15/hr in rural Mississipi is a world apart from $15/hr in Manhattan. Yet Bernie understands nothing of economics or capitalism (this is a man whose only interactions with the private sector proved him a repeated failure in all sorts of work), so he gives pandering speeches like a true politician with full knowledge he has zero chance of ever having to actually deliver anything.

TheDormouse

(1,168 posts)
37. why doesn't she just say clearly & directly what she believes without obfuscation?
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:39 PM
Apr 2016
Hillary Clinton: ‘I favor a $12 an hour minimum wage’
11/03/15

Hillary Clinton on Tuesday stated in her most clear language yet that she supports a $12 an hour minimum wage, which falls short of the level sought by many labor unions but is higher than the one favored by President Obama.

“I favor a $12 an hour minimum wage at the federal level,” Clinton said at a town hall in Coralville, Iowa. “That would be setting it at a level that would be equivalent to the point in our history where the minimum wage was at its highest” since 1986, she said.

Clinton’s rivals for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley, support a call by many labor unions to raise the wage to $15 an hour, a move already made by several cities like Los Angeles and Seattle.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-i-favor-12-hour-minimum-wage
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
39. She has said again and again the sweet spot for Dem support in the senate is 12$- which means that
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:18 PM
Apr 2016

is what Dems think they can have success supporting. Pulling numbers out of your ass is not a substitute for working with the senate Dems.

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