2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton’s Gender Argument
By Ray McGovern
Source: Consortiumnews
April 18, 2016
Hillary Clintons record as Secretary of State makes it unmistakably clear that like her hawkish predecessor Albright she lacks the level-headedness, vision, and, yes, compassion without which the countrys top diplomat or (even more importantly) the commander in chief can be outright dangerous.
If there is a Hell, I could visualize a special place for both men and women who operate with the cold-blooded, unfeeling cruelty toward victims of American power. What brought this to mind was the way Clinton exulted shortly after getting word that Muammar Gaddafi had been killed.
Frankly, it is hard to distinguish Clintons foreign policy from the neocons regime change obsession. Like the neocons, Clinton expresses full support for whatever Israel does and applies the same step-by-step approach toward dragging the United States into more regime change wars against governments and political movements that dont toe Washingtons line.
Currently, shes pushing for the U.S. military to impose a safe zone or no-fly zone in Syria, nice-sounding phrases that mean in reality a direct U.S. invasion of Syria, requiring the violent destruction of Syrias air force and air defenses. It is the same ploy that Clinton used in beginning the disastrous regime change in Libya: start with sweet phrases like responsibility to protect and no-fly zones and then escalate to another regime change.
As Secretary of State, Clinton supported the 2009 coup in Honduras that ousted a relatively progressive president who had offended powerful corporate and oligarchic interests. Also in 2009, she joined hawkish Republican holdovers inside the Obama administration to push for what turned out to be a pointless but bloody counterinsurgency escalation in Afghanistan.
In 2011, Clinton tipped the balance in convincing Obama to support the Western invasion of Libya. And in seeking another regime change in Syria, she advocated arming Syrian rebels, even though many fought side-by-side with Al Qaedas Nusra Front.
Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/hillary-clintons-gender-argument/
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)and lacking their own creativity, it makes our world a very corporate place.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I agree with you completely.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)It is a byproduct of identity politics. It is only going to get worse.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Our entire culture tilts towards authoritarianism. It is a byproduct of identity politics.
I've begun to hate "identity politics" especially when I see feminism slimed by warmongers, creators of hell for other women, and highly corrupt greedbags and power players and their minions.
I've also seen other "identity" causes slimed for various political and corporate purposes--gays, the disabled,* African Americans. I try not to let these causes be diminished in my mind by the slimebags who USE them for personal or corporate gain. But it takes some thinking through.
What do you think the connect is between authoritarianism and identity politics? I can see some indirect connections (see below). How do you see it?
-----------------------
*(I will give you an example. Establishment disabled groups were used to convert our entire vote counting system to a riggable, electronic system run on 'TRADE SECRET' code, owned and controlled by a handful of private corporations, the biggest one (ES&S, which bought out Diebold) with far rightwing connections. The meme was that it was too hard for the disabled to vote in the traditional way--hand-counted paper ballots--they needed an electronic machine. And that excuse was used to inflict these machines on everyone, at the cost of transparent elections and probably at the cost of our democracy itself.
Further, you were made to feel that you were against the disabled if you objected to these machines for all. I was angry at the disabled cause for a long time afterwards, but now I've realized that the Corporates, like Clinton, buy the leadership of groups like these and the vast majority of the members or affected people are not at fault, likely don't know what is going on, and likely have no power to stop it. Indeed, it can be very harmful to badly needed and important advocacy to associate a good cause with corporate/political exploiters.)
longship
(40,416 posts)Sell ones soul for what?
I learned feminism on my mother's knee in the 50's. But there's no way I could vote for Hillary Clinton in the MI primary because my mother was also an FDR Democrat. My father also taught me feminism at his knee in the 50's. But my parents didn't raise any fools.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But I can't because what you say it true and very sad.
thank god Thatcher isn't around to run as a Democrat. Imelda Marcos, Sarah Palin too. At what point do policies matter more than gender?
desmiller
(747 posts)What does she stand for you to vote for her?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)And, no, I never tire watching the effort you guys expend trying to convince that "to the right of Bernie" is the same thing as "extreme right." How's that going, by the way? Have you convinced the majority of Democratic voters?
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)the "neocon" argument is so I tired I stop listening
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But, you're not listening, which is what's going to put this country on a path to hell if either she or a Republican neocon get in.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)On Tue Apr 19, 2016, 03:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
She IS a neocon.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1780838
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This has come up before, calling ANY Democratic candidate a "neo-con", and has been hidden just about every time. Please hide, she's certainly NOT a "neo-con". Poster, learn the definition.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 19, 2016, 03:50 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: uh - "neocon" is as "neocon" does, democrat or republican. Facts are not hide-worthy, even when they are unpleasant.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: opinion is not hideable.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I am so tired of the disturbing posts that have been posted on DU since the primaries started....this is another one....hide it!
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Disturbingly enough, three jurors thought that noting Clinton's neocon foreign policy position is hide-worthy.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)the sun would rise in the east nevertheless.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)If I oppose a female candidate, absent any evidence of misogyny on my part, there is zero reason to assume or claim that I oppose the female candidate because of misogyny. That is intellectual sloppiness.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)no evidence that she is hawkish, right? No record of supporting regime change, wanting a more "muscular" foreign policy.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I prefer to argue specific positions, not generalized labels.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)it's Ray McGovern.
polly7
(20,582 posts)by her campaign as anyone else. Many people hate the warmongering and suffering because of it. Probably billions around the world.
I trust him very much - he's a brilliant man who well knows of the horrors committed by male and female leaders alike and doesn't fall for the bullshit.
Keep your head in the sand. It's not your kids washing up on beaches.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)The people you defend, polly.
And just spare us the fake concern. You side with Sanders and the gun lobby over twenty dead first graders, I imagine because you can't use them as human shields in your tired defense of authoritarian regimes abroad.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)
the horrors they're subjected to because of GREED.
I side with Sanders and the gun lobby against small children killed? WTF are you talking about? You're beyond SICK.
And ........ if you really want to go there:
Secretary Clinton approved a $4 million sale for Sandy Hook gun maker Remington in 2012
In the year of the Sandy Hook massacre, Secretary Clinton approved $120 million in sales for the companies that made the murder weapons Adam Lanza used to kill 20 children and 6 adults, including a $4 million sale for gun maker Remington. Clinton used her office to facilitate the very corporate greed she claims to oppose while enriching and empowering the gun lobby she claims to fight.
On 14 April 2016 a judge ruled that the Sandy Hook families lawsuit against gunmaker Remington Arms can move forward. Hillary Clinton is using the massacre for political gain in the presidential campaign. At the Univision debate in March, Clinton said you want to talk about corporate greed? The gun manufacturers sell guns to make as much money as they can make. But a newly identified Pentagon document shows that Clinton herself aided corporate greed of Remington. (A summary table of Clinton-approved 2012 gun and ammunition sales is included at the bottom of this blog page.)
All foreign weapons sales required approval from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The sales include over $100 million dollars ($100,737,273.66 by my count) of gun sales in 2012 alone. A sizeable fraction of these were handheld guns manufactured by household name gun makers: Colt, Beretta and Remington. These approvals represented lucrative deals for gun manufacturers that fund the National Rifle Association. Lee Fang found bankruptcy documents that prove Colt Defense was funding the NRA. Business Insider reports that the bulk of the groups money now comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, much of it originating from gun industry sources. NRA donors also include Beretta USA, for which Clinton approved $6.4 million in sales that year.
Investigative journalist Lee Fang of The Intercept recently tweeted a link to a Pentagon document showing the arms sold by U.S. companies around the world in 2012.
and much more: https://medium.com/@JeanetteJing/secretary-clinton-approved-millions-in-global-sales-for-the-sandy-hook-gun-maker-9e8b0e78c58d#.3tveyffmu
Response to polly7 (Reply #12)
Post removed
polly7
(20,582 posts)If you support war, you support dead children. PERIOD.
And yes, I did point out the lies wrt Ukraine .......... many, many times. As well as those with Georgia.
I'm glad you're done with me. You turn my stomach.
You come across like a Dick Cheney or Henry Kissinger with your view of the rest of the world - better not claim any moral superiority there.
Response to polly7 (Reply #22)
Post removed
polly7
(20,582 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:47 AM - Edit history (1)
Drop your shit bomb and run away again, seabeyond?
These millions of innocent children, women and men are the 'enemy'? I feel sorry for you. Seriously. I think you'd have a fine old time hanging out with Albright, Clinton and the late warmonger Thatcher - birds of a feather - enemies!!, brown little enemies everywhere!!! cackle, cackle.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)not be morally consistent with your blame for children's deaths. Given the conflict you had with Steve Leser on a similar issue, it confirms the suspicion I expressed to you previously.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I had no idea how sick a person you were.
Frankly, I wouldn't want you near a child, period.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)And ......... I do hope you rot in hell.
Oh, and because I know how much you whine, here it is:
polly7
You sick fucking PSYCOPATH.
Mail Message
How DARE you.
Seldom in my life have I ever felt hate. You, I hope rot in hell forever and I swear to god if you ever used my child to play whatever sick, sad and psychotic game it is you're playing - you'd wish you were there already.
You ignorant, ugly nutcase.
I've also kept all your horrible and disgusting pm's regarding my dad ............ you're one of the ugliest human beings I've ever had the misfortune to meet in real life, or otherwise.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)You've had several altercations with him. That you chose to deliberately misunderstand him and take offense is not his fault. Thankfully, Steve coninue to post here.....admin obviously saw the situation for what it was.
polly7
(20,582 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)are going to do to me?
polly7
(20,582 posts)> 'My dear' - coming from someone who whined sooooooooo much after asking your good pal to stop calling you that - how typically hypocritical of you. I couldn't give the slightest fuck about your poor little Steve. I pity anyone who has to be near you.
>
> You're a fucking nutcase. Do you 'really' think I have to put up with your bullying and there's nothing I can do about it? Takes some crazy narcissistic shit right there to believe that. We both know bullies are always the worst kind of cowards, just be fucking glad you're nowhere near me when you spew your big, bad bile.
>
> Poor, poor misanthrope. It must suck to feel such hate for yourself you just can't help spreading it around, eh???
>
>
msanthrope
Re: Re: Re: You sick fucking PSYCOPATH.
Mail Message
My dear....Steve continues to post here because obviously, cooler heads prevailed. I don't hate you....I pity you. What, precisely do you think you can do to me?
> Go FUCK YOURSELF, PSYCHO!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> And don't you worry, I have a heart and soul ............. those who come across me anywhere are quite happy. You on the other hand, nothing but the stench of pure hate - I think they'd smell it and you from miles away.
>
> 'It's just the internets' eh? I don't put up with bullying in real life and I certainly don't fucking have to here, especially from a NOTHING like you.
>
> Keep it up ....
>
>
>
> > Chill. It's just the Internets. And your problems with Steve weren't based on your son.......they were based on a deep seated hatred of him in which you chose to exploit the death of your son. No one with any sense was fooled....quite the contrary. I am sad for those who come across you in your profession.
> >
> > > How DARE you.
> > >
> > > Seldom in my life have I ever felt hate. You, I hope rot in hell forever and I swear to god if you ever used my child to play whatever sick, sad and psychotic game it is you're playing - you'd wish you were there already.
> > >
> > > You ignorant, ugly nutcase.
> > >
> > >
Your pm's are as disgusting as they were months ago. Do you honestly think you should get away with bullying?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)As for bullying...no one is bullying you. YOU madam....are the one who contacted me via pm. You are the one threatening, calling names.
polly7
(20,582 posts)seeing you jump right on with the pig-pilers regarding my son.
That's when you started with your unhinged pm's - and yes, of course you know all about what you said about my dad - he didn't really die of suicide, remember???
Sick, sick, sick person you are.
Here, this is from when you were pretending to be a ... something or other:
msanthrope
Re: Sorry!
Mail Message
No worries! I think sea's drinking.... her replies are way to nonsensical to be sober ones. I've found that being very short but polite with her gets the best antics. Im waiting for her next opus in gd.
What a hypocritical liar you are.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)flying fuck what I think or write about her? We've gone toe to toe, long before you ever signed up on this board. We are old timers here.
Shit......I posted her unhinged PMs to me, routinely. That magnificent woman and I go way back.
You accused Steve of posting about your son..... you accuse me of posting about your father...wow.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I'm done with you ............. you make my stomach sick. I honest to god don't know how you can even look in a mirror.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)kaleckim
(651 posts)what a pathetic thing to say. You might notice that that tactic backfired horribly on Clinton.
"No, that would be because of people like Assad and Gaddafi."
So, you are arguing that the policies she supported in Libya and Syria haven't been a disaster, haven't helped to destabilize the region and haven't (along with the war in Iraq, which she supported) helped to create conditions in which ISIS could come into being? Might be news to even Obama. Say, want to comment on her role in Guatemala? A well known environmental activist in Guatemala called her out specifically, shortly before being assassinated.
Also, do you think that Bill Clinton is in a position to call others sexist? I would bet that a lot of the feminists now supporting his wife probably wouldn't have liked working around him in the 1980's or 1990's, but what do I know?
polly7
(20,582 posts)Implying that Bernie Sanders was in any way to blame for those children's horrible death is just disgusting. As to the rest of that rant ... EXACTLY the type of reply I and so many others got protesting the invasion of Iraq online and came here to escape. This place has sure changed.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Thanks for the thread, polly.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Kissinger, PNAC Kagan, Sid Blumenthal .......... even Cheney thinks she did a great job.
The 'sexism' claims are nothing but bullshit to distract from just one of the many reasons people around the world distrust her .... she made no secret of her willingness to destroy and ruin - well, except that private server and email thing she hid from scrutiny while enriching her Foundation at the same time in all of this.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)desmiller
(747 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)That says a lot.
I expect Republicans to dislike her - even when she sides with them on major issues - because they've been trained for 30 years to hate her (one of the reasons their base will wallop her give what will be left of our base in the general), but most of the highly respected "muckety mucks" in intelligence who come from the left have no love lost for her, either.
Wonder why that is? (I know why - that was rhetorical).
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)[center][font size="5"; color="blue"]What Bernie Sanders Represents[/font]
[font size="5"; color="red"]What Hillary Clinton Represents[/font]
choose wisely
[/center]
polly7
(20,582 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Sheila Jackson Lee or Barbara Lee.
But not gonna be.
Unless
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Poor man has a sad and an axe to grind, and seems to a long time Republican apparachic.
Love the Big Tent view at DU where even non-Democrats can find a welcoming soapbox to lambast real Democrats.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Raymond McGovern (born August 25, 1939) is a retired CIA officer turned political activist. McGovern was a CIA analyst from 1963 to 1990, and in the 1980s chaired National Intelligence Estimates and prepared the President's Daily Brief. He received the Intelligence Commendation Medal at his retirement, returning it in 2006 to protest the CIA's involvement in torture.[1] McGovern's post-retirement work includes commentating on intelligence issues and in 2003 co-founding Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
Career
McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years (1963 to 1990), "routinely presenting the morning intelligence briefings at the White House."[2] His CIA career began under President John F. Kennedy, and lasted until the Presidency of George H. W. Bush.[3] McGovern chaired National Intelligence Estimates and prepared the President's Daily Brief, and in the mid-1980s was "a senior analyst conducting early morning briefings one-on-one with the vice president, the secretaries of State and Defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the assistant to the president for national security."[4] At his retirement in 1990, McGovern received the CIA's Intelligence Commendation Medal.[1][4]
He worked as an officer for the CIA, where he was responsible for the analysis of Soviet policy in Vietnam.
Post-retirement and views
Intelligence activism
McGovern has been an outspoken commentator on intelligence-related issues since the late 1990s.[5] He was heavily critical of the government's handling of the Wen Ho Lee case in 2000.[6] In 2002 he was publicly critical of President George W. Bush's use of government intelligence in the lead-up to the war in Iraq.[7]
In 2003, together with other former CIA employees, McGovern founded the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity or VIPS. The organization is dedicated to analyzing and criticizing the use of intelligence, specifically relating to the War in Iraq.[1]
In January 2006, McGovern began speaking out on behalf of the anti-war group Not in Our Name. According to the group's press release, McGovern served symbolic "war crimes indictments" on the Bush White House from a "people's tribunal."
In 2006 McGovern returned his Intelligence Commendation Medal in protest at the CIA's involvement in torture.[1]
On October 9, 2013, McGovern, along with three former winners, gave the Sam Adams Award for integrity in intelligence to Edward Snowden in a Moscow ceremony.[8][9]
McGovern is a founding member of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.[10] In September 2015 McGovern and 27 other members of VIPS steering group wrote a letter to the President challenging a recently published book, that claimed to rebut the report of the United States Senate Intelligence Committee on the Central Intelligence Agency's use of torture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_McGovern
http://warisacrime.org/
About WarIsACrime.org
In October 2012 we added the names HumansForPeace.org and HumanBeingsForPeace.org because we think such a group is needed. Veterans For Peace and Code Pink Women For Peace and various nationalities for peace are all terrific efforts. Humans For Peace is a way to include everyone. Join by making yourself a username and password on this site!
In May 2010 we renamed AfterDowningStreet.org WarIsACrime.org.
Please read When the World Outlawed War.
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations." --UN Charter
"all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land." --US Constitution.
AfterDowningStreet.org is a nonpartisan coalition working to expose the lies that create and sustain wars and occupations and to hold accountable those responsible. We have speakers available.
procon
(15,805 posts)My Google goes to Wikipedia too, thank you very much, but I still have no intention of extolling his anti-Democratic views.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Since when?
When I came to this site that's what it was all about ...... against Republicans engaged in it. Strange how things have changed here.
Personally, I think anyone supporting these atrocities is anti-Democratic.
procon
(15,805 posts)So you want to switch from posting Republican talking points that bash the leading Democratic presidential candidate, to actually exalting a Republican activist? Look, regardless of whatever views he may currently hold, it isn't enough to undo a lifetime of work in pushing the GOP's agenda, or give him high fives for bashing Democrats that you happen to disagree with.
I get it, and if that's your particular cause, then use your own words to bash Clinton all you like, or at least find some pro-Bernie pundit to quote from, there must be some still writing about their inner rage.
polly7
(20,582 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)dubyadiprecession
(5,711 posts)Hillary is the next President of the United States.
Bettie
(16,110 posts).did I sleep through the election? She's already been elected?
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I liked the person on TYT on this and as a feminist she felt targeted by the false feminists.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Gawd I was angry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511795379