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Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:33 PM Apr 2016

If its not over, it's all but over. However, while I can still say this here:

Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I think that there is a schism way too wide to repair within the party. I think that the party is leaving behind progressives, and doing so at their own peril. I honestly don't think Hillary wins the GE against any Republican, and I think it's mainly going to be because of how moderate to conservative she is.

She doesn't excite independents, she doesn't excite a large base of the party(obviously not the majority of the party, but a larger segment then any imagined) which includes the young up and coming liberals. That is going to be a huge problem for her.

I think the party is weaker after tonight and because of who we as a party have chosen to nominate, the country will be weaker in January.

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If its not over, it's all but over. However, while I can still say this here: (Original Post) Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 OP
Are you voting for her in the general, yes or no? JoePhilly Apr 2016 #1
My vote is mine alone. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #2
LOL JaneyVee Apr 2016 #4
'Dude' I've made my stance painfully obvious, I'm not going to take a loyalty oath for the upcoming Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #7
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #22
I owe you no explanations for anything actually. Though I will be a peach and answer the first part Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #25
LOL, you're backing a right-winger. Broward Apr 2016 #27
9th most liberal senator of her time. JaneyVee Apr 2016 #30
Way to but into the Third Way and Repub framing. Broward Apr 2016 #32
Lol none of your business azurnoir Apr 2016 #20
What a dickish question. morningfog Apr 2016 #21
It's the only question that matters. JoePhilly Apr 2016 #23
Who are you? The inquisition? morningfog Apr 2016 #36
No one expects the inquisition! reflection Apr 2016 #47
Haha ha! Reminds me of road trips with my kids... once upon a time you'd be slapped floppyboo Apr 2016 #37
Nobody is leaving anybody behind metroins Apr 2016 #3
You're asking a large number of people to vote against some very basic principals. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #5
Hillary has been a democratic leader metroins Apr 2016 #11
Don't whitewash her record Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #14
Everyone will move forward to the election KingFlorez Apr 2016 #6
She is winning despite the voters you mention fun n serious Apr 2016 #8
She is winning closed primaries, a point that was driven home time and time again this week. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #12
I don't think you're correct fun n serious Apr 2016 #13
Come one, we had this argument all week, that it would be best for Hillary if indies didn't vote. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #16
She has more votes and more pledged delegates fun n serious Apr 2016 #18
You're missing the point. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #19
She isn't barely winning mythology Apr 2016 #24
This is 'handily winning the nomination' Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #26
Kerry's opponent's all melted down of their own accord. Codeine Apr 2016 #29
I disagree fun n serious Apr 2016 #28
Trump is running a 3 man race, with 4 to 5 people for the majority... Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #31
... LexVegas Apr 2016 #9
the guy that hijacked the democrats' bus cant even beat the driver and passengers lol nt msongs Apr 2016 #10
I don't even know what this means.... Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #45
Well said. nt cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #15
+1 Zira Apr 2016 #17
stolen election indeed Phantom Shouting Apr 2016 #35
What stolen election? mythology Apr 2016 #43
Yet another self-fulfilling prophecy ... It is sickening. Jitter65 Apr 2016 #33
If the democratic party nominates a person who is not...lets say a progressive... Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #34
My state is semi open. Independents can vote in Dem. primary. Jackilope Apr 2016 #38
WE need a real 3rd (and 4th) party. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #41
And, IRV instant runoff voting. nt Snotcicles Apr 2016 #46
I'm down with that as well. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #49
First thing Old Codger Apr 2016 #39
Agreed. frustrated_lefty Apr 2016 #40
She has 3 million + more voters than Bernie redstateblues Apr 2016 #42
K&R vintx Apr 2016 #44
Democrats are only about a quarter of the voters. . . . pdsimdars Apr 2016 #48
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
4. LOL
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:38 PM
Apr 2016

Dude, she's going to be the Democratic nominee. You are posting on a site called Democratic Underground. The Republican frontrunner wants to punish women for having abortions, and make racism/bigotry codified law. How are you going to waffle on that softball question? You ok?

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
7. 'Dude' I've made my stance painfully obvious, I'm not going to take a loyalty oath for the upcoming
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:40 PM
Apr 2016

purge.

Read my op. Look close. Your answer is there. However you want to interpret it.

Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #7)

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
25. I owe you no explanations for anything actually. Though I will be a peach and answer the first part
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:51 PM
Apr 2016

of your question. Because without them, she's home sitting on her ass in New York come January.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
30. 9th most liberal senator of her time.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:55 PM
Apr 2016

Saying ridiculous things only makes you look ridiculous. Not me.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
32. Way to but into the Third Way and Repub framing.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:58 PM
Apr 2016

You're enthusiastically supporting a candidate right of Nixon.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
37. Haha ha! Reminds me of road trips with my kids... once upon a time you'd be slapped
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:06 PM
Apr 2016

"Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?"

metroins

(2,550 posts)
3. Nobody is leaving anybody behind
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:36 PM
Apr 2016

People are choosing to not jump on the #StopTrump bus.

The bus for Hillary has it's doors open, waiting for people to join the 800k+ so far in NY that #StandWithHer

All you gotta do is jump on.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
5. You're asking a large number of people to vote against some very basic principals.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:38 PM
Apr 2016

I don't blame them if they don't get on the bus.

metroins

(2,550 posts)
11. Hillary has been a democratic leader
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:40 PM
Apr 2016

For at least 20 years.

She was appointed SOS by Barack Obama.

She has been out in public for Democratic issues more than almost anybody.

If you can't support that, you can't support anybody.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
14. Don't whitewash her record
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:43 PM
Apr 2016

She is pro war, pro corporation, pro citizens united, pro trade agreement, pro drug war, pro-continue to fill in the blanks...

Those are not democratic ideals. Scratch that, progressive ideals.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
12. She is winning closed primaries, a point that was driven home time and time again this week.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:41 PM
Apr 2016

The 'hipsters' who were 'too cool for political parties' didn't vote today. That's fine, thems the rules, but you can't pretend she's going to bring them with her in November.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
16. Come one, we had this argument all week, that it would be best for Hillary if indies didn't vote.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:44 PM
Apr 2016

Don't act like that wasn't the case, don't act like that wasn't the excuse for Michigan. When EVERYONE votes, Hillary loses. That has been the meme ALL week. "Don't let indies pick our nominee!!!!'

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
19. You're missing the point.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:48 PM
Apr 2016

And that may be my fault for being obtuse.

Yes, she has proven that she can (barely) win a party nomination this time. However, you can't win the GE without independents, and a ground swell of support on the ground (mainly from the young) to give you turnout. The republicans will have that because they get to run against Hillary, they've been out of power for a long time, and if they nominate trump, they have an ugly man who knows how to rouse his rabble.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
28. I disagree
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:53 PM
Apr 2016

I think we just proved huge rallies do NOT equal votes. Hillary has more votes than anyone running INC Trump. Trumo has more votes than Bernie. Bernie can NOT claim to be the better candidate on indy votes ALONE

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
31. Trump is running a 3 man race, with 4 to 5 people for the majority...
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:55 PM
Apr 2016

plus, that side has just stopped letting people vote all together, but all those southern states wins had trump pulling in HUGE numbers compared to Hillary.

 

Zira

(1,054 posts)
17. +1
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:45 PM
Apr 2016

This stolen election will be the end of them.

We're watching Rome burn. DWS and the DNC are just too stupid and corrupt to see what's happening. It will be far higher than the current 30% that won't vote for Hillary no matter what, after tonight. And they will not rally behind her for the GE. I doubt they will be Dems much longer. I won't.

35. stolen election indeed
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:00 PM
Apr 2016

please friends, these numbers just don't add up. even after all the confirmed election fraud shenanigans, msnbc and cnn exit polls showed bernie losing by only 4 points. right now it's at 14. what gives?

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
43. What stolen election?
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:20 PM
Apr 2016

She won by a wide margin and was the clear preference of voters today and over the course of the primaries as a whole.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
33. Yet another self-fulfilling prophecy ... It is sickening.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:58 PM
Apr 2016

I don't think all Independents are quite as uncompromising or ill-informed as many BS supporters try to make them seem. Nor are many as hateful and disingenuous as many BS supporters. Instead of leaving room to unify after the primaries the Sanders camp would rather set the stage to destroy the Democratic party and the nation by influencing people to not support the Dem candidate. Really sad.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
34. If the democratic party nominates a person who is not...lets say a progressive...
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:00 PM
Apr 2016

why you expect progressives to blindly follow him/her? Because the have a 'D' after their name? Fuck that. The 'D' only gets you so far.

Jackilope

(819 posts)
38. My state is semi open. Independents can vote in Dem. primary.
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:07 PM
Apr 2016

Following casting my primary vote for Sanders, and after being a Democrat my whole life I am registering Independent. Have been thinking about it for some time. Third Way is not my way. At this point, however, I don't think our voting system truly reflects the will of the people. It can be rigged and hacked. Until people get incredibly more unified and angry and willing to take a stand, the corruption continues.

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
39. First thing
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:07 PM
Apr 2016

Is a lot of indy's won't vote at all probably, and a lot of Dem's may not vote for her just down ticket maybe, but the amount of R's that will flock to vote against her will turn it into a debacle

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
42. She has 3 million + more voters than Bernie
Tue Apr 19, 2016, 11:18 PM
Apr 2016

If you saw the exit poll data almost 20% of Hillary's supporters would not vote for Bernie. Only 16% of today's voters were under 30. I think you underestimate the negative impact of Bernie's tax plan, his inability to explain how he would pay for it. His economic proposals depend on an unrealistic growth rate of 5.3. Once the Republicans spent 5 months on Bernie's Socialist past he would be lucky to win any states. The last Democrat to run on raising taxes was Walter Mondale-He won one state-his home state of MN. I understand why people like Bernie- I personally just think Hillary would make a better President. I think the party will be stronger in November(that's actually when the election is) because Bernie ran. Hillary will be our next President.

BTW-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress-Your "moderate to conservative" is just plain wrong. To lump her in with Cruz et al is serious hyperbole. She may not be acceptable to the Purity Party but she is more in step with the electorate. Her popular vote total is testament to that.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
48. Democrats are only about a quarter of the voters. . . .
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:22 AM
Apr 2016

And Bernie is not tied with Hillary among Democrats.
And Bernie gets about 70% of Independents which make up 42% of voters.
If you can't think that through, you will lose the GE.
Easy peazy

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