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George II

(67,782 posts)
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:37 AM Apr 2016

"Sanders is drawing people to the party"

That's been the theme for the last couple of weeks, and why the Clinton campaign was going to be "disappointed" last night.

Well, here are the comparative numbers between 2008 and 2016:

Turnout in 2008

Hillary Clinton 1,068,496
Barack Obama 751,019
John Edwards 21,924
Dennis J. Kucinich 8,458
Bill Richardson 8,227
Joseph R. Biden Jr. 4,321

Turnout in 2016

Hillary Clinton 1,037,344
Bernie Sander 752,739

Almost IDENTICAL, in fact actually 4% lower! Sanders certainly did not draw anyone into the party - that's a myth that was debunked last night.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Sanders is drawing people to the party" (Original Post) George II Apr 2016 OP
Many more to come ... I assure you! NurseJackie Apr 2016 #1
It has been a fact for a while. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #2
That's because the state of NY would not allow people to switch parties in the last several months mucifer Apr 2016 #3
Then how do you explain that Republican vote was up 33% (857,250 to 642,894)? George II Apr 2016 #11
Republican worship greed and that is what donald trump is all about. With us it is different mucifer Apr 2016 #15
He didn't motivate them enough to sign up as Democrats to vote for Bernie. MoonRiver Apr 2016 #26
Not in October. That was a long time ago. He had limited resources then. mucifer Apr 2016 #33
The wrong people, though. The kind of people of whom 11% don't vote for other Democrats. IamMab Apr 2016 #4
They weren't allowed to vote. End of discussion. ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #5
Who wasn't allowed to vote? Republican vote was up 33% (857,250 to 642,894) George II Apr 2016 #7
It was a closed primary... HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #6
There were only a few thousand of those. George II Apr 2016 #9
Link to provisional ballot numbers? HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #13
Link to provisional ballot numbers? George II Apr 2016 #14
You claimed only a few thousand provisionals. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #17
I never mentioned provisionals, you did. George II Apr 2016 #19
"There were only a few thousand of those." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #24
Yes, I "comprehended" it, but the person I responded to mentioned provisionals, not me. George II Apr 2016 #28
Provisionals were the "those" you cited. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #30
Had the unaffiliated been able to register as Dems up to election day pat_k Apr 2016 #8
Well, perhaps we should allow Canadians and British to vote, too? George II Apr 2016 #10
So CT, WV, CA, RI, IN, MT, NJ, SD, should all lock down... pat_k Apr 2016 #12
Dems are only 29% of registered voters. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #16
That's why there is such a difference... pat_k Apr 2016 #18
If she gets elected in Nov... HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #23
Open primaries can lead the party to a candidate chosen by republicans. Do you want that? George II Apr 2016 #21
Your argument sounds like RW 'voter fraud' myths. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #25
Tell me an instance where this occurred. pat_k Apr 2016 #27
Sanders supporters had plenty of time to register as Democrats. He announced his campaign... George II Apr 2016 #31
That doesn't answer the question pat_k Apr 2016 #35
Okay, to answer your question, each state is entitled to enact their own laws/regulations..... George II Apr 2016 #36
So, to return to original subject... pat_k Apr 2016 #37
I don't think it matters either way. George II Apr 2016 #39
So, we just disagree on that. pat_k Apr 2016 #40
Thanks George! Iliyah Apr 2016 #20
Maybe if Sanders et. al. had been Democrats for years they might have been able to.... George II Apr 2016 #32
Oh yes. And voter ID laws are great! pat_k Apr 2016 #38
At it's core, that's a dishonest statement. Sanders isn't registering Democrats who will participate KittyWampus Apr 2016 #22
The Sanders campaign didn't even understand how voter registration works! They were... George II Apr 2016 #29
Free Stuff again SheenaR Apr 2016 #34

mucifer

(23,550 posts)
3. That's because the state of NY would not allow people to switch parties in the last several months
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:40 AM
Apr 2016

How can he draw people to the party if there are roadblocks?

You can't have it both ways.

mucifer

(23,550 posts)
15. Republican worship greed and that is what donald trump is all about. With us it is different
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:01 AM
Apr 2016

you can't have it both ways.

Either you want to include independents in primary democratic elections and you let them vote or you are non inclusive and you don't let them vote in the primaries.

But, then don't say Bernie can't bring in independent votes. That simply doesn't make sense.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
26. He didn't motivate them enough to sign up as Democrats to vote for Bernie.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:56 AM
Apr 2016

It's really VERY simple.

 

IamMab

(1,359 posts)
4. The wrong people, though. The kind of people of whom 11% don't vote for other Democrats.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:40 AM
Apr 2016

See: Wisconsin supreme court race.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
6. It was a closed primary...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:42 AM
Apr 2016

And it appears a number of voters who reregistered as Democrats before the Oct deadline had their affiliation changed and were forced to fill out provisional ballots not included in your #s. Open primaries and caucuses have had large turnouts. Half of those Independants won't be voting Dem tickets in Nov with Hillary on top of the ticket. They'll stay home or vote for other candidates.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
17. You claimed only a few thousand provisionals.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:06 AM
Apr 2016

Do you have a source for those numbers other than your behind?

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
24. "There were only a few thousand of those."
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:53 AM
Apr 2016

Or did you not actually comprehend the post you were replying to...?

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
30. Provisionals were the "those" you cited.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:14 AM
Apr 2016

So you actually did mention them...because that's how demonstratives work.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
8. Had the unaffiliated been able to register as Dems up to election day
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:45 AM
Apr 2016

... as they are able to in CT, or if they had been able to vote in the Democratic primary, as they are able to in RI, WV, CA, NJ, you would have seen how many voters Sanders brought into the party.

Since NY "locked down" the number of people registered in the party last October, of course you don't see an increase.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
12. So CT, WV, CA, RI, IN, MT, NJ, SD, should all lock down...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:57 AM
Apr 2016

...registration changes and close all their primaries to anyone except people already registered as Dems?

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
16. Dems are only 29% of registered voters.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:05 AM
Apr 2016

Closed primaries can only lead the party down the path towards never exceeding 29% of GE votes. If bringing fresh blood into the party is desired, including millenials needed for party future, then they have to have candidates to vote for. Expecting them to join the party just to hold their noses is stupid thinking.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
18. That's why there is such a difference...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:14 AM
Apr 2016

...between the closed/semi-closed/open primaries this time around.

For a change, we have a candidate that they don't have to "hold their nose" to vote for.

You're right. We can open up those closed primaries "next time around" but it will make no difference if we don't have someone like Bernie or Elizabeth Warren, or Martin O'Malley, or ??

And, unless by some miracle we get Bernie elected, we are probably looking at 8 years of whoever wins in Nov. If that's Hillary, unless she undergoes some amazing transformation in office, she won't be attracting fresh blood.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
23. If she gets elected in Nov...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

...she will be sworn in with the lowest favorability numbers of any incoming president in modern era. And her numbers will only go down from there, as she acts out on her neoconservative fantasies and turns her back on minorities and other working class with her neoliberal free market economics. And the GOP will obstruct and work towards impeachment from day one.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
25. Your argument sounds like RW 'voter fraud' myths.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:54 AM
Apr 2016

What prevents a Republican from changing party registration and voting in a closed Dem primary now? In essence, that's what we have in Third Way.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
27. Tell me an instance where this occurred.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:57 AM
Apr 2016

Allowing people to register as a Democrat up to and on Election Day, and/or allowing unaffiliated voters to vote in the Democratic Primary is not opening the door to hoards of republicans.

George II

(67,782 posts)
31. Sanders supporters had plenty of time to register as Democrats. He announced his campaign...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:30 AM
Apr 2016

...last April, and registration closed in NY in October. That's 6 months to decide and register.

George II

(67,782 posts)
36. Okay, to answer your question, each state is entitled to enact their own laws/regulations.....
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:48 PM
Apr 2016

....as they see fit.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
37. So, to return to original subject...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:56 PM
Apr 2016

...which set of rules is more likely to enable more people to join the party?

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
20. Thanks George!
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:36 AM
Apr 2016


Campaigns should educate their supporters on each states voting registrations. Each states primary and/or caucus rules are there for everyone to view. Trying to change in mid-stream laws and rule concerning elections for each particular state is not helpful, plus, Tad Devine knows the Democratic Party's process, there is no excuse.

George II

(67,782 posts)
32. Maybe if Sanders et. al. had been Democrats for years they might have been able to....
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:31 AM
Apr 2016

....achieve changes in the way primaries are run. But they didn't, and now they want instant rule/law changes.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
38. Oh yes. And voter ID laws are great!
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:57 PM
Apr 2016

They just have to educate the voters.

Any people disenfranchised, screw them.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
22. At it's core, that's a dishonest statement. Sanders isn't registering Democrats who will participate
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

and fight within the party for progressive change.

His angry rhetoric and empty promises are attracting people who have no stomach for the real world, hard work necessary to participate in party politics.

His unwillingness to fundraise for Down Ticket Democrats also illustrates this point. Reinforcing the "both parties are the same" illustrates this point.

Showing up to vote for some guy promising free stuff isn't growing the Democratic party.

George II

(67,782 posts)
29. The Sanders campaign didn't even understand how voter registration works! They were...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:13 AM
Apr 2016

...complaining that the DNC didn't have registration tables set up at SANDERS rallies.

It doesn't work that way, campaigns register voters at their respective rallies.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
34. Free Stuff again
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:52 AM
Apr 2016

Never mind that part of Clinton's platform mirrors Sanders'

Back on the Free Stuff kick. There is no hope for you. This has been debunked at least a hundred times here. You were my first and only ignore (which says a lot in this place) and I should have kept it that way

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