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chknltl

(10,558 posts)
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:03 PM Apr 2016

The day after GW Bush was elected I felt this bad.

I have an internal moral compass, it works just fine. I know the difference between what is right for our country/planet and what will be horribly wrong for it.

Although I could not predict if Gore would have made things better I did not have to be psychic to predict that GW was going to make things far worse...looking back, 'far worse' turned out to be an underestimation.

Thanks to DU and especially Thom Hartmann I get it that unrestricted capitalism in a nation which has the largest military resources this planet has ever seen is a bad thing. No, nobody in DU nor has Thom Hartmann ever put it that way but this is the world's biggest problem as I see it.

My pain is less for the stupid my country does to itself, it is instead for the carnage that we cause worldwide. I have little doubt that our world, well the one outside this country bubble, is watching our election process from this very perspective.

74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The day after GW Bush was elected I felt this bad. (Original Post) chknltl Apr 2016 OP
If you don't know the difference between GWB and Hillary you may need some internal reflection. bullimiami Apr 2016 #1
Indeed. They have vastly different genitalia FlatBaroque Apr 2016 #5
Wow, that was disgusting and sexist The Second Stone Apr 2016 #11
Clinton is smarter than Bush, VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #12
Bush followed orders... chknltl Apr 2016 #23
Something tells me very much the latter. VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #24
She hasn't promised you a future RobertEarl Apr 2016 #46
Your post is Shameful. Grow up. riversedge Apr 2016 #26
Its hard to distinguish from policy but I think bahrbearian Apr 2016 #6
I get differences, i spoke to similarities. chknltl Apr 2016 #14
Absolutely. Serious internal reflection. Justice Apr 2016 #25
Both terrible people, but only 1 will destroy the Democratic party jfern Apr 2016 #53
The Clintons and Bushes are partners egalitegirl Apr 2016 #2
Card-carrying members of the cartel that has sold out this country. polichick Apr 2016 #29
OMG their charities invested in rebuilding businesses in devastated areas? The HORROR. bettyellen Apr 2016 #62
Well, you endorse business partnerships with BUSH FAMILY egalitegirl Apr 2016 #67
Not every answer is yes or no all the way, like it is for Tea Partiers. You'd have no charity- not bettyellen Apr 2016 #69
Hey! Please don't give up yet. Avalux Apr 2016 #3
With Sanders I had hope of being right... chknltl Apr 2016 #48
Nothing compared to the world of hurt a day after a Trump win splat Apr 2016 #4
Will the world be worse off? chknltl Apr 2016 #17
You might want to get that compass checked anigbrowl Apr 2016 #44
More wars coming kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #7
Oh Please- Comparing Hillary to Bush? Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators redstateblues Apr 2016 #8
Don't blame Nader. It was the corrupt scotus that gave that election away. bullimiami Apr 2016 #59
Elisabeth Kubler-Ross says hi./nt DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #9
is this really necessary? restorefreedom Apr 2016 #32
That is my response today for the attacks, implicit or explicit, on the candidate of my choice. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #35
wanting bernie to stay and fight is not an insult to clinton restorefreedom Apr 2016 #37
He compared Clinton to Bush DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #43
well, to be honest. i felt worse, too. restorefreedom Apr 2016 #49
When was GWB elected? Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2016 #10
Yep. I felt as bad then as I do now. nt chknltl Apr 2016 #16
You're not the only one with an internal moral compass, and mine works just fine too. BreakfastClub Apr 2016 #13
In terms of body count, or countries invaded? nt VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #15
oh, HELL YEAH. thread win. nt restorefreedom Apr 2016 #33
Most likely MuseRider Apr 2016 #39
Her history on the world stage... chknltl Apr 2016 #19
... riversedge Apr 2016 #27
OMG. This for so much win. I want this for my sig! nolawarlock Apr 2016 #68
Blech leftynyc Apr 2016 #18
All hope is gone Dems to Win Apr 2016 #20
It gets worse: That country's actions are for sale! nt chknltl Apr 2016 #41
It is time to admit that a sizable... actslikeacarrot Apr 2016 #21
Apparently this is the altar that Democrats fall to their knees at. VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #28
More Blood for the Blood God DookDook Apr 2016 #47
Can we not tarnish the name of the mighty Khorne with bilge like her? VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #72
No, a loud minority that suppresses the vote of the majority. Zira Apr 2016 #54
The reason Bush got elected in the first place is people saying stuff like this about Gore. YouDig Apr 2016 #22
Bush didn't get elected - he was chosen and installed by the ptb... polichick Apr 2016 #30
Yep Bush was chosen by the so called elites HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #42
Nope, PTB wanted Bush was reason. nt chknltl Apr 2016 #34
David Brock reddread Apr 2016 #40
Listening to supposed Democrats comparing Clinton to Bush makes me feel bad, too. Meh.... seabeyond Apr 2016 #31
Planet first, country second, party third. chknltl Apr 2016 #38
I vote Democratic because lives are at stake, and that matters to me. seabeyond Apr 2016 #50
I do not think President Romney chknltl Apr 2016 #51
FIRST sentence, and I stop. Of course a white privileged male does not get the women and girls seabeyond Apr 2016 #52
I believe in equality for all. chknltl Apr 2016 #70
Do you think Romney would have pulled off the Iran nuclear deal geek tragedy Apr 2016 #57
No of course not. I would not expect Clinton.... chknltl Apr 2016 #60
so your talk about Romney being no worse than Obama geek tragedy Apr 2016 #61
Romney would have cost us no more lives than Obama chknltl Apr 2016 #63
Other than starting a war with Iran and Syria and putting geek tragedy Apr 2016 #64
Perhaps. Was he sabre rattling for this like Hillary? chknltl Apr 2016 #65
Much, much worse. Google mitt Romney foreign policy advisors nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #66
Wait, GWB was elected? lagomorph777 Apr 2016 #36
Well LyndaG Apr 2016 #45
Kerry lost because he didn't inspire the voters. I voted for him and noticed the problem while Zira Apr 2016 #58
Hillary is not the right person for this country, imo bigwillq Apr 2016 #55
+1 for you. Right on! apnu Apr 2016 #56
Chicken Little? Lucinda Apr 2016 #71
I feel the same. smiley Apr 2016 #73
It's not just violence...our military activity is a huge contributor to global warming HereSince1628 Apr 2016 #74

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
5. Indeed. They have vastly different genitalia
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

but other than that, Her is much more militaristic, more ethically challenged, and possesses far less charisma than W.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
12. Clinton is smarter than Bush,
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:56 PM
Apr 2016

which means when it comes time to mislead America into yet another illegal, unethical war, she'll be able to sucker that much more of the populace-- and then IF any of us are alive ten years after the fact, we won't even have WikiLeaks to figure out just how wrong we were because PATRIOT Act and "Manhattan Projects against encryption".

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
23. Bush followed orders...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:36 PM
Apr 2016

...we knew that then, know it now...he blamed Saddam for that war, nobody with half a brain agrees with him now. If we bomb/put boots on the ground in Iran who will we blame then? The Middle East is destabalized because of our being there AND due to the ravages of global warming. Will our next POTUS focus more on our world's problems or will he/she focus more on the needs of those who would take by force the resources of other countries?

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
24. Something tells me very much the latter.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:38 PM
Apr 2016

Call me a cynic, but her foreign policy record gives me no hope for our future.

 

egalitegirl

(362 posts)
2. The Clintons and Bushes are partners
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:15 PM
Apr 2016

The Clintons and Bushes are partners and very close friends. They even had a Bush Clinton Katrina Fund and a Clinton Bush Haiti Fund. These funds actually INVESTED the money collected in businesses like luxury hotels. That is a problem.

Both families wage illegitimate wars and support bailouts for Wall Street. So there is no difference between the two.

 

egalitegirl

(362 posts)
67. Well, you endorse business partnerships with BUSH FAMILY
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:26 AM
Apr 2016

This is a clear endorsement of the BUSH FAMILY'S ACTIONS. Why should you be taken seriously when you claim to oppose Bush? Bushes are nice people who only have the good of Haitians are heart, right?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
69. Not every answer is yes or no all the way, like it is for Tea Partiers. You'd have no charity- not
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:38 AM
Apr 2016

pure enough for you. Got it.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
3. Hey! Please don't give up yet.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:18 PM
Apr 2016

We have no idea what may happen in the next couple of months. As I've learned through living life - anything can happen.

Don't let them bring you down at this point when it's critical to hold your head up and believe just that - anything can happen.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
48. With Sanders I had hope of being right...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:37 PM
Apr 2016

....with Clinton I hope that I am wrong. I had hope with President Obama but things did not turn out as I hoped. He did not help out as much as he could have with global warming issues and he did not do so well with a destabalized Middle East. It is no stretch to say that the world expected more out of him...it is no stretch to say that the world expects Clinton to do equally or worse than Obama.

splat

(2,294 posts)
4. Nothing compared to the world of hurt a day after a Trump win
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:18 PM
Apr 2016

Keep your eye on the prize, we need you.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
17. Will the world be worse off?
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:18 PM
Apr 2016

I've no doubt that our country would be worse off under Trump or any republican.

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
44. You might want to get that compass checked
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:47 PM
Apr 2016

If you think that a Trump presidency could somehow be better for the world than a Clinton one, then I wouldn't even ask you for directions to the bathroom.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
8. Oh Please- Comparing Hillary to Bush? Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:35 PM
Apr 2016

in Congress. Ask any Republican. The only thing Republicans hate more than Hillary would be a Socialist in the White House. Ask some of them how they feel about Bernie. The myth that they would vote for Bernie is just that. Oh and thanks to all the Naderites in Florida for giving us Bush/Cheney. "not a dime's worth of difference"?

bullimiami

(13,096 posts)
59. Don't blame Nader. It was the corrupt scotus that gave that election away.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:40 PM
Apr 2016

Gore would have won Florida. Even with Jeb! and Katherine.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
32. is this really necessary?
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:08 PM
Apr 2016

you put this in nearly every thread.

you like rubbing salt in the wound? i always saw you as different than many supporters of your candidate. not wanting to get personal or mean.

whats up with the snark?


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
35. That is my response today for the attacks, implicit or explicit, on the candidate of my choice.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:12 PM
Apr 2016

I have nothing against catharsis in general. I do when someone I like and admire is the target of it.

I assure you if Bernie was beating Hillary DSB wouldn't be making post after post denigrating him and his supporters.

I am the antidote.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
37. wanting bernie to stay and fight is not an insult to clinton
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:18 PM
Apr 2016

and fwiw, how are with all the viscious gloating, calling bernie and his supporters "losers" and calling for skinner to purge us?

sounds kind of out of bounds to me.

are you willing to say that some of the vile behavior here is coming from your associates?

i am willing to say that there has been nastiness in both directions. are you?


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
43. He compared Clinton to Bush
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:25 PM
Apr 2016

He compared Clinton to Bush

The day after GW Bush was elected I felt this bad.



and said in voting for Clinton the nation was inflicting stupid on itself:

My pain is less for the stupid my country does to itself,



i am willing to say that there has been nastiness in both directions. are you?
[

Of course. That being said. As Sista Souljah said "two wrongs don't make a right but they damn sure make us even."

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
49. well, to be honest. i felt worse, too.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:53 PM
Apr 2016

than when w was selected. does that mean i "like" w? no. i despise him. but i felt worse yesterday becsuse i am much more invested in bernie as pres than anyone before. doesn't mean i am comparing anyone to anyone else, just my feelings about different events.

only the poster knows what he or she meant, but i think it behooves all of us to not overinterpret comments made after a big win or loss when people are especially emotional.

and since the nom is to be running against trump, you hillary folks (if she is the nom) are going to have many similar ugly and depressing days. you will no doubt make emotional utterances from time to time. it happens, ya know? we all have our moments

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
13. You're not the only one with an internal moral compass, and mine works just fine too.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:57 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary will be one of our greatest presidents. Bank on it.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
19. Her history on the world stage...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:21 PM
Apr 2016

..leaves me with far less optimism. I could not predict how bad GW would be for this world but i knew in my heart that it would be bad. I am fealing that exact fear right now.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
18. Blech
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:18 PM
Apr 2016

another "there's no difference between the two parties" bullshit post. This is getting disgustingly, pathetically, boring. I trust my moral compass way more than yours.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
20. All hope is gone
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
Apr 2016

They stole it, fair and square.

A country that can't even run fair elections and maintain accurate voter rolls nevertheless has a massive military and nuclear weapons. Yes, the world should be very afraid.

actslikeacarrot

(464 posts)
21. It is time to admit that a sizable...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 01:35 PM
Apr 2016

...portion of our own party has no problem with military action around the globe. It was a tough pill to swallow when Obama went along with the surge to Afghanistan in 2009, and this pill is no less bitter. It is what it is. And what are the alternatives? They are all worse.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
28. Apparently this is the altar that Democrats fall to their knees at.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:03 PM
Apr 2016

An altar drenched in the blood of American servicemen.

DookDook

(166 posts)
47. More Blood for the Blood God
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 03:06 PM
Apr 2016

More Skulls for the Skull Throne



And maybe just to rub some more salt in the wound, they'll have "Fortunate Son" be her campaign song.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
72. Can we not tarnish the name of the mighty Khorne with bilge like her?
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:34 AM
Apr 2016

Khorne is a Chaos God of honor, not "flinging troops at meaningless causes while having no skin in the game herself". She's more along the lines of Nurgle, if you asked me.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
30. Bush didn't get elected - he was chosen and installed by the ptb...
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:06 PM
Apr 2016

Just like our next president.

HughLefty1

(231 posts)
42. Yep Bush was chosen by the so called elites
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:24 PM
Apr 2016

just like Hillary was pre-selected for this cycle. Debbie Wasserman can spin it how she likes but it is what it is.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
38. Planet first, country second, party third.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:20 PM
Apr 2016

It is where my head is at. I vote Democrat up to and until it causes problems with my planet or my country. If Trump ran next time as a Dem I would see no problem in NOT supporting him. He would be a bad choice for my country. Having a D next to your name does not grant one an automatic vote from me.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
51. I do not think President Romney
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:49 PM
Apr 2016

...would have cost us more lives than President Obama.
Domestically Romney would have emasculated himself politically had he actually pushed to overturn Roe V Wade.

Would President Romney have made things worse than they are in the Middle East? Probobly not, he would have been under the same constraints President Obama was. Would I have voted for Romney? Hell no, I had hope for a better world through Obama. That hope went unanswered and the world witnessed instead the ravages of increased global warming...and drone strikes!

I too believe that lives are at stake. Sanders gave me hope that he would better lead us away from the precipice that we are at with global warming, he gave me hope that he would not lead us off to further needless war in the Middle East. THESE LIVES MATTER TOO!

President Obama was given a Nobel Peace prize i believe because he offerd us hope for a better future world wide. With hindsight, i can not argue that he provided what the world hoped for. I do not see Clinton doing any better. I doubt the world is any less skeptical of her than I am. I guess it is up to a President Clinton to prove us wrong....if she can even get to that position.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
52. FIRST sentence, and I stop. Of course a white privileged male does not get the women and girls
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:52 PM
Apr 2016

lives matter and that Romney would have made a difference. I though, get it and find this comment incredibly uninsightful. Women and girls no longer have any wiggle room. Crunch time. We are out of options and choices to exercise our right over our health. I get that you think that does not matter. It is forefront for me though.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
70. I believe in equality for all.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:32 AM
Apr 2016

In our country, I very much want the equality that we do not have. I do not know Hillary's position here but Bernie Sanders regularly shows his understanding of our nation's lack of equality in gender and racial areas. He promises to fight for equality in these areas. I believe him.

That said, would I accept the terrible status quo as a trade off for righting what we have done to the Middle East? Yes. I would even accept our horrible status quo for the promise that we won't make things worse for the Middle East.

Put yourself in the position of a mother over in Iraq, your kids' future (those that may be yet alive), is pretty bleak! ISIS may be offering them the best job available. Your ability to even feed your kids may be challanging at best and healthcare...welll it aint as good as it was when that asshole Saddam was alive! We did that to them.

We did that to them because they had oil and someone wanted Saddam to not have control over it. Do you as an Iraqi mother give rats butt over America's fight for equality? These lives matter to me. Because we did this to them these lives matter to me more than our internall fight for equality.

That said I believe we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can fight for our own equality while not exacerbating the problems in the Middle East. We can do both while leading the world away from the precipice of global warming. That is the hope i got from Bernie Sanders.

With Hillary I fear she may only at best push the fight for gender equality a little further than the status quo, I fear an exacerbation of problems from her with the citizenry of tbe Middle East and I doubt she will lead us anywhere good when it comes to a needed war against global warming. I think i have a darn good reason to be sad right now.

Yeah, I want equality but i dont want it held out as a bone that may or may not be given us while the Middle East gets burned even more and our planet gets even warmer. I fear the kind of equality that comes when humanity can no longer survive on this planet.

Planet first, country second, party third.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
60. No of course not. I would not expect Clinton....
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:17 PM
Apr 2016

...to have done either on her own either. From her I would have expected Cuba to have been left as it was prior to Obama and a war in some fashion with Iran.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
65. Perhaps. Was he sabre rattling for this like Hillary?
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:45 PM
Apr 2016

This grows tiresome. I do not trust Hillary to do good by the citizenry of the Middle East. There has been far too much carnage there and I expect her to exacerbate the nightmare for these people. I am incredibly upset over this.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
36. Wait, GWB was elected?
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:15 PM
Apr 2016

Because that's not what I remember. I remember 2 stolen elections, following massive fraud and voter suppression in FL, then OH.

But yeah, it sucks to see that happening all over again.

LyndaG

(683 posts)
45. Well
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 02:55 PM
Apr 2016

I felt bad when my Primary candidate dropped out in '04. He quickly endorsed Kerry. I preferred my candidate, but realized Kerry was 100 better than Bush when it came to the issues important to me.

No, I don't feel Hillary Clinton is as bad as Bush. She is pro-choice.

 

Zira

(1,054 posts)
58. Kerry lost because he didn't inspire the voters. I voted for him and noticed the problem while
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:05 PM
Apr 2016

I was supporting him.

Clinton would lose the same way if she is the choice.

Us hardline liberals will try to stop the worst evil but most people are not hardline liberals.

Kerry proved what happens when you don't inspire the masses. The DNC has done everything they can to lose the general. It started by kicking the independents who would have voted Dem and whom they continue to kick.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
55. Hillary is not the right person for this country, imo
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:56 PM
Apr 2016

Not sure Bernie is, either.

I prefer Bernie but the people are speaking, and the majority want Hillary. That's democracy. But I will continue to fight and vote for the people and causes I believe in.

smiley

(1,432 posts)
73. I feel the same.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:57 AM
Apr 2016

We're headed down an even darker path if we are faced with only the possibility of Clinton or Trump.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
74. It's not just violence...our military activity is a huge contributor to global warming
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:53 AM
Apr 2016

There is an enormous amount of fossil fuel burned just for transportation involved directly and indirectly.

It makes a huge joke of blaming global warming on the farts of livestock

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