2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLet's get real: if bernie was REALLY no longer a threat to clinton,
there would not be a zillion calls for bernie to step aside. he is delivering a powerful progressive message and getting people (especially young people ) involved. if there was ABSOLUTELY NO MATHEMATICAL WAY FOR HIM TO WIN the clinton campaign could smile and let him go through his paces as long as he wanted to, with the confidence that she had it.
except that they are all over the place today claiming its a done deal and sanders needs to step down for "unity." that tells me that, just as in march, they are desperate to get him out before the western states put him close again. we know that oregon and cal combined have the potential this time to be kingmaker on the last day of voting.
and THAT is why they want him out now.
Csainvestor
(388 posts)that is the real issue here.
Bernie has made HUGE strides with longstanding democrats.
Look at a map of NY Bernie won more than 90% of all NY counties.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)People vote, not trees. CDs reflect population density.
And your math is terrible. He didn't win 90% of counties. There are only 62 counties total--Hillary won me than 6.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)looking at the upcoming states
ct: date for party affiliation change was jan. ...not great but not as bad as oct in ny
pa: deadline was in MARCH and a local paper reported record numbers of people changing party! this bodes well for bernie
de: feb 26....not great, but much better than ny.,,this could work out well for bernie
ri: unaffiliated can vote IN EITHER PRIMARY ....good news for bernie
apnu
(8,758 posts)All this talk about closed primaries and registration dates. Why now are independents trying to join up and cram in the door? Bernie's been running since last year.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)to change party was early oct, and dws carefully resisted all calls for debate until LATER oct. they had this all planned out
SpareribSP
(325 posts)And he only started getting serious coverage this year.
apnu
(8,758 posts)To spend so little time and energy on the politics that affects their daily lives. It breaks my heart.
smiley
(1,432 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)a pol who's different for once takes some getting used to
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)It's shameful, the games being played in the name of "solidarity".
Solidarity with THIS candidate, the one being investigated?
Not gonna happen.
Skink
(10,122 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)getting super-delegates to go against her. HINT: They won't.
Skink
(10,122 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)and decide they want the Presidency more than anything else.
Sam
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)For our sake the hope is that if this is the end, Bernie knows the best way to maximize his amazing, groundbreaking, unfuckinglybelievable success this past 8 months.
We desperately need higher taxes on the rich, corporate taxes to be paid, education to be tuition free, and healthcare to be universal as well as Social Security being sound and safe.
To that end we need this revolution to continue.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)She increased her delegate lead by 31 and now has 2.7 million more votes than he does, come the 26th those numbers are going to increase. As for the west, or as it keeps getting referred to as west of the Mississippi, I've got one word.. Arizona.
This is about the general election, it's time to do what's right for the party and thankfully Senator Sander's agree's.
http://news.wabe.org/post/sanders-step-back-after-big-clinton-win
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)Let's wait and see.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Now it's about his character.
Is he determined to keep drawing blood, despite not having a shot?
Or will he consider the good of the country?
eomer
(3,845 posts)That's not impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Or even CAN happen realistically? I mean he's behind by over 10 in PA, and WAY behind in MD. Also behind in CT. After next Tuesday, things will be even worse. He is currently behind in CA, even, and he really need to win it by 65-35. Not gonna happen.
eomer
(3,845 posts)I do think he can still win.
I don't know if he *will* win or not. But that's why we, in theory, hold the elections. I say in theory because our elections are so fucked up that they are a sham. But if we were really a democracy, that would be why we hold the elections.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)its because her crappy policies and ties to wall st make her a weak candidate. its not his job to protect her. its her job to WIN, and if she can't handle bernie, what is she going to do with trump?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)If he cares about eh country, at some point he has to prioritize defeating the GOP, as he has said he will do. He has said that on her WORST day, she is WAY better than any of the GOP candidates. Did he mean it? If he did, he needs to start acting like it fairly soon.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and he has every right to be. and if the corrput dnc had not propped up a candidate under criminal investigstion, maybe bernie would have other options. but until we know for sure there are no legal issues and the convention has decided the nom, i actually think it would be irresponsible for him to leave now.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And I'm not even saying he should drop out. But I do think he should shift his fire at the GOP now. He can no longer realistically beat Clinton. There is no benefit in attempting to damage her further. He can advance his message and continue to gather delegates by focusing on the GOP, however.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)many of his core issues are ones that clinton is on the other side on. campaign finance, trade, foreign policy/war
even if he chose not to mention her by name, the very fact that he discusses "special interests buying politicians" will make some people accuse him of going after her.
its up to him which candidates, if any, he continues to mention by name. but the fact that she is on the other side of his basic message is one he can't do anything about unless he stops talking, which i am sure many would like to see.
and as long as he is in the primary process, he needs to highlight differences with his opponent, otherwise he is just doing ge campaigning. if thats the case, i would rather he just go back to the senate than water down his message to try and protect her.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)It would be for the good of Hillary and the good of Hillary and the good of the country are two very different things.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But he should recognize that he cannot realistically win. And he has had already said he would support Clinton against any of the GOP. Did he mean it? If he did, then he needs to start thinking about the election in November.
I wouldn't conflate Clinton's welfare with the Country's, but I will say that doing anything to improve the chances of Trump or Cruz in winning the Presidency would be decidedly AGAINST the good of the country.
In short, he needs to direct his fire against the Republicans at this point.
amborin
(16,631 posts)i think that's the sub-text here
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)And it's exactly why Bernie should stay in all the way to the convention and his people should continue to work the superdelegates.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)unfavorables I have a bridge to sell you.
They mentioned a fainting couch on With All Due Respect. Hmm...
Zynx
(21,328 posts)her a liar and embittering supporters of a campaign that can't win can only be harmful.
I can hold your hand through the calculations of the remaining delegates to show you how this doesn't work for Bernie. Do you want me to? I can.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)out of the race. They are chomping at that bit.
I can assure you, I don't have to have my hand held through math calculations.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)How can Bernie hurt her at this late date? Could it be that she's actually a weak candidate with sky high negatives?
amborin
(16,631 posts)if i'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be saying that Bernie supporters would become
embittered by pointing out HRC's lies? Bernie supporters already know full well about her.
Bernie can still win, and HrC is not guaranteed the nomination by any means.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)if he was harmless, they could just smile.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)He is not a legitimate threat to win the nomination.
That will be even more painfully obvious one week from today.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)How would she ever handle the Trump situation!
Also, the Mainstream Media, bought and paid for by Big Oil, Big Nukes, Big Military, slants every single news story positively for her. (Outside of Fox, which will go negative on her, but for things like her support of abortion rights.)
Bernie has to be on the attack. His opposition has royally screwed middle class America, and if he doesn't make that his message, the Mainstream Whores of the Major News Conglomerates certainly won't.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)she's not qualified
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Note that Sanders then turned around and sent a fundraising email citing their own accusations.
This is why many of us agree with "Bernie tones it down, if not, fuck him."
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)The sheer reckless brazeness of it is what outrages us. It's frustrating to deal with people who don't accept reality.
Do the math. You'll see that it doesn't make any sense for him to fight this bitterly to the end. Maybe as a happy warrior, but not how he recently did things, no.
Marr
(20,317 posts)She stayed in to the convention, making racist dog whistle attacks all the way.
Such a candidate has no room to say legitimate criticism needs to stop this early in the primary season, sorry.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Hillary stayed in until AFTER the last state voted (South Dakota) then went to the convention. Bernie will stay in until the last state votes and then go to the convention. According to some Hillary supporters here, it's kinda the same, but different. I think some are maybe too young to remember or don't give a shit...
Marr
(20,317 posts)since I remember Hillary's justification for staying in the race against Obama. She repeatedly referenced the Bobby Kennedy assassination-- saying basically she should stay in because who knows what might happen to Obama. It was pretty sick.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)about her ties to wall st, her hawkish policies, and her protrade sell out of workers is not slander. its reality. and if she needs bernie to protect her, she has no chance of winning a ge
randome
(34,845 posts)They are opponents in a political primary. Of course each wants the other out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)It's more like you insist on portraying them as enemies, though. They're simply opponents and eventually one of them will endorse the other.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)don't really know another word for it.
believe me, not a fan of anything war.
Triana
(22,666 posts)Establishment, corprat-friendly "Democrats" (ie: 1960s Republicans like Hillary) had better look out in 2018 and 2020. Because WE. THE. PEOPLE. have had QUITE enough of their Centrist 'Republican Lite' corprat-ass-kissing, Wall St.-coddling, economy-destroying, environment-burning-for-profit bullshit.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)She'll be indicted before she is the candidate!
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)The reason they're asking him to step aside is the same reason folks asked Hillary to step aside in 2008, so that the nominee would have more time to build up a strategy against the other side's nominee. In this case, both parties are up for grabs and every candidate they have over there is an idiot so I don't care that much if he steps aside. I know he's going to lose either way and the whole preparation works both ways. I've seen more Tepublican critiques of Sanders lately and every one of those critiques is one less critique for Clinton. So let him stay. He's still gonna lose and I have no doubt that Hillary will be president elect come November.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)For that ugly ass sig line alone.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Flounce if you will. No skin off my nose.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Ignore me all you like. Unlike Facebook, I can still see what you write and have the last word on any point we disagree on. Remember, in debate, it's all about the audience.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Autumn
(45,107 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Zira
(1,054 posts)spiral and continue that one direction that she's been on for months. Bernie support has continued to rise which has been his only direction. They will cross each other this week in the national Dem polls. Both heading in their consistent directions.
The last poll had Hillary with 2 points on him nationally and showing she was still going down, and him up.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)Not in the sense that he has any chance in hell of winning, but in the sense that he's going to continue to attack Clinton and give false hope to his supporters which will leave them even angrier and more disillusioned when she inevitably gets the nomination. The ultimate effect of the Sanders campaign is probably going to be reduced turnout among young people in the general. There is no benefit for an underdog to attack his own party from the left, other than hoping to throw the election to the republicans and force some kind of progressive revolution in the future. But when has that ever worked?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)there is no way bernie is secretly working for trump. he has a core message that he believes in which represents the best of progressivism. its not his or his supporters fault if clinton is so fsr right of him that him campaigning his message looks like an attack. that is her weakness and if it costs her the ge, that is on her, not bernie.
and besides, the longer she and bernie spar, the less either of them gets into it with trump, i would think that a good thing, considering all the material i am sure he is gathering.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)Getting the left worked up about an idealistic purity candidate with no chance of winning is only going to leave Sanders supporters angry and disillusioned in the general. If we end up with a racist, misogynistic, anti-gay, anti-abortion republican in the White House because Sanders supporters stay home, then that's absolutely on Sanders. We're arguing about $12 vs $15 minimum wage when the other party doesn't even believe in minimum wage? When Trump actually said he thinks wages are too high!? We're arguing about free college when the republicans would love to privatize k-12 education if they could get away with it? The main criticism of Clinton's policies from Sanders supporters is her connections to wall street and big corporate money, but republican's can't attack her on that front at all. But if Sanders successfully convinces his supporters that she's a totally corrupt right winger who is no different than Trump, then yes, he's doing Trump's work for him and is basically doing exactly what Nader did to give us eight years of Bush.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)scotus gsve it to w and gore was uninspiring. it was not naders fault.
but if she is really concerned about bernies core message, perhaps she should cut her ties to wall st and release the transcripts. if its a weakness, that is not bernies fault
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)I mean, that's the threat Sanders supporters are making right? They're not saying they'll vote for Trump, they're saying they'll stay home.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but many do not feel that a clinton vote is obligatory. especially if there is no reason to vote FOR her. for many, her being "not trump" isn't good enough. we are talking about many young people who finally got involved in the political process just to see the rigged system kick them in the gut.
if i was in my twenties, i might stay home too after that.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)If Sanders supporters feel like the system is rigged it's because they've completely bought into the story his campaign has been pushing. Every time he loses a primary it's "rigged" and the laughable conspiracy theories come out. His supporters aren't feeling the urgency of a "not trump" vote because he has done everything he can to paint Clinton as being no different from the alternative. So yeah, that's on him.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I just keep walking in my lane.
I really want to ask is : Why yall sweatin' when it's in the bag? Repub aren't going anywhere. Besides, haven't the Repubs heard it all before?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)she's entitled to that nomination according to some anyway
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)the less time she has to engage for the general.
there is a threat, it is just not the threat you want it to be.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Not much at all to worry about or so I've heard.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)i am not advocating that Bernie needs to step down, I am just pointing out that the threat this OP says there is, just isn't there. if there is a threat, it's a threat to the GE.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and still deal with trump, how is she going to win a ge or function as president?
she is free to discuss trump all she likes. but bernie's core issues place her on the other side of those issues. but its his core message. its not his fault she chose to be waaaaay to his and most dems right.
he is leading a revolution. even if he stops mentioning her by name, she is still to the right of him on issues. no way to avoid that unless he stops talking and gives up the revolution, and i don't see that happening.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)you know how i know this? the 2.5 million more votes she has.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)why she would be itching to get into it with him is beyond me. once he unrolls his "opposition research" she is in big trouble. she might prefer bernie for now.....
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He can damage the party and increase the chance of a republican winning the GE.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and calling out political corruption helping the republicans? this should be in the dem wheelhouse. unless it touches on hillarys political weaknesses, which will plague her in a ge, bernie or no bernie
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)or as a current candidate?
some have suggested that him staying in is "hurting the party." some think it depends on what he is saying and doing. i think he needs to run until he doesn't but i don't want him to water down his message. as to what he does if and when he is no longer a candidate, that will be up to him but i can't imagine him not continuing to lead this revolution.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He absolutely has the ability to damage the party.
I don't see this as revolutionary. I understand you do. I feel he is going to tell Weaver to shove it and go back to his message from the first month of his campaign.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and will continue to be. so do you think if he stays in and promotes his core message this hurts the party? or are you talking about the more recent focus on clinton in particular?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I believe his original message helped us all.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)is a HUGE threat!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It's "yooge".
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)because she needs to concentrate on the GE,
then I have to ask:
How much did she care about Obama's need to do
so in 08?
Again:What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.
(And I recall her viscous attacks against him then!)
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)it was never about the good of the party. its always what is good for HER.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)He can't win.
But he can absolutely stay in as long as he likes
If only so his most angry supporters have to endure this until Hillary's victory is complete.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i am sure those very individuals will flock to the polls to vote for her in nov, too...... (sarc)
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)It will make it harder to adopt "sensible" republican positions in the general election.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)well luckily for her she is already there
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)You have to react to the battering ram.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Hillary and her supporters to Bernie: Drop out NOW! Or you might WIN!
that's why there is such constant vitriol: because Bernie is such a YUUUUUGE threat!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Bernie is now a threat to all Americans.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,845 posts)But has a bit of truth to it.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)though people were urging her to do so. Just another double standard.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)Better it be done during the primary, where she'll have at least a semi-sympathetic crowd, rather than during the GE when both sides are all-in and the long knives come out. Practice the delivery, muzzle some of the surrogates, send Bubba on a mission to Samoa for seven months or so, things like that.
Or at least that's what I told John Podesta this morning when he called me for advice.