but probably mostly, some of whom hold, perhaps with good reason, resentful feelings towards men, all men, women, who support Ms. Clinton for viscerally sexist reasons, boston bean.

doesn't drive on all fours does she?

"Sarandon's been a life long Dem."


No , she isn't

She was the head cheerleader for Nader's Green Party.

perhaps more politico-demographically representative parties, then you could have four- or five-party politics, more European-style. Wouldn't that bring in a breath of fresh air?

First day in office.....

What could possibly go wrong?

and policies, in such conditions.

And, given current low registration & turnouts under present conditions, a US president rarely represents a majority of the people as it is.

We have conservative dems, progressive dems, liberal dems, moderate dems all under the working group Democratic Party. We have Catholic dems and Jewish dems and on and on, each with their own list of top three priorities. And when we come together to support one candidate our diffused base sharpens its focus and creates a party platform on which we run.

Splintering even further makes no sense to me...

Peace

to form other coalitions, such as with greens, according to issues.

And many (though not all) of the key priorities of these other parties are part or become part of the larger Democratic Party's platform. Like gay rights for example.....enough pressure moved the party over time.

It's the size of the Democratic Party, the infrastructure that generations of Democrats have created that wins elections. And let's face it, winning the election is key to ANY change.

Heck, look at the republican party now. It's clearly in the middle of that same split you're advocating for...and where is it getting them? Stronger coalitions? Nope, Trump and Cruz as nominees is where it's got them. Bundy militias is where it's got them.

((I appreciate that this back and forth is being done in a civil tone. Short in supply of late.))

and for your time and consideration.

Let me meditate on the points you make and get back to you.

The immediate observation is that the party has wandered into some very unprogressive territory in recent decades...

Susan Sarandon may like Bernies utopian vision more, but she can not deny that Hillary is the
Most qualified candidate running from both parties. Not voting for a woman because you don't like her is sexist, calling her unqualified is sexist, calling her a corporate whore is sexist.

I am for Hillary, but I also understand that many are rubbed the wrong way by her. I don't particularly like her. There are many times when she sounds inauthentic that I cringe. Some things
That she has said to Bernie I do not like. But I am an adult and can differentiate wanting a someone I like vs. someone who is the most qualified to be the President.

I agree that voting for a woman just because she is a woman is sexist, but this is not the case with
Hillary.

That's what we're hiring her for.

Monsanto is one of Tad Devine's clients

she turns into the evil queen.

"on the take" so they can tell their listeners to grow the fuck up with their CTs already.

I saw the Hartmann thread

.

Of course it would be sexist if that is the only reason someone voted for her. Just like
it would be sexist to vote for a male candidate only because he was running against a
woman.

She also said she'd love a female prez just not one who was super rich and whose husband
had already been president. I couldn't agree more. No more Bushes, no more Clintons.
It's America and we need some new blood.

Not so much anymore. The Clintonistas loathe her as much as Republicans do.
She is a true progressive-that used to be a good thing.

"Not a dime's worth of difference"?

and not those 200,000 registered Democrats in Florida who decided that GW Bush was the better Republican to vote for than the neoliberal New Dem Gore.

She has a judgement issue. I don't trust or have any use for anyone who voted for Nader.

that votes for a neoliberal and a neocon. The enmity is mutually shared.

Go ahead and hang your hat on them. Makes no difference to me.

may I ask?

I am certain it matters not to you. They fit like a glove.

I love how you blame the Democrat and not Nader. "not a dimes worth of difference?"

And it is your side that lives in that state of denial.

Yes, I blame Democrats that voted for Bush, and I blame Democrats that voted with Bush for the illegal invasion.

Yup, not a dimes worth of difference there.

Y'all need to stop bitching at the progressive left and clean your own fucking house!

And with only 25% of the registered electorate as Democrats, y'all need the leftist independents in order to win.

Must suck having to wake up and face that reality from your pretty little pious perch of party purity!

The number of registered Democrats before the beginning of the primary season had hit an all time low of 23%. It bumped up to 29% during the primary because of independents registering to vote in closed and semi-closed states.

The number of frustrated long-time Democrats and those disrespected independents will leave again and already are. It may go as low as 20% of the electorate by fall.

Yes, they do, but the delusion both parties live under is that independents are centrists. We are not. We are either leftists or rightists. You will be taking your chances because without leftist independent voters in the GE, y'all are bluntly fucked.

instead of for Trump.

And I sure don't get why you seem to think that people are frothing at the mouth to vote for that racist, woman-hating, immigrant-hating, demagogic Trump. His negatives are higher than anyone's.

Last edited Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

voting for Clinton is voting for Trump?

There are other candidates on the ballots. There are other parties. There are down tick votes without choosing a presidential.

Personally I always vote.

not so much (accepting) against corporatists and oligarchs.

...because Hillary's campaign supporters were throwing the gender card, which is what she was referring to when she talked about the in the closet Bernie supporters. This is why she was vigorously condemning the shaming of women for supporting Bernie.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/19/susan-sarandon-women-are-pressured-to-support-hillary-clinton/

Sarandon agreed with the suggestion that there are more “in-the-closet Bernie lovers” out there than people realize. “Absolutely,” she said. “Because if you’re a woman, everybody dumps on you like, ‘How can you be a feminist?’” and vote for Sanders. She also said she knows some superdelegates who have expressed regret to Sanders about getting behind Clinton so early.

with factoring in gender when deciding.

I'm not going to let men and clueless women tell me that gender should be ignored when they've done the the exact opposite for centuries.

Symbols are important, especially when there's still a major sexism problem in this country and the world. The fact that she's also the most qualified person running kind of makes it a no brainer.

symbolism < substance

And if you think this woman is "clueless" for pointing that out, then try and imagine how few fucks I give for your opinion.

Moreover, Hillary isn't remotely qualified from an ethical POV. She's a venal, lying, pandering corporatist.

It's your choice. I really don't care.

And I have zero problems with him on gun issues...

Jesus Christ, Susan. Get a fucking life!

There was also the "Trump may bring the revolution faster" remark and then the hectoring of Dolores Huerta.

Not good.

Other Sanders' surrogates haven't served him that well either — Cornel West (ugh), and even Rosario Dawson with her disrespectful open letter to Huerta.

I would back her 100%. But, she is a crappy human. She lies even more than most politicians and she has backed some horrific policies. I can't get passed Libya as a business opportunity or her cozy relationship with Sid. I didn't like her before that, but I would have been okay with her getting the nomination even though she would be pretty close to my last choice just cuz I didn't like her. Now, she is on my SOL list because of all the crap that has found it's way into her campaign.

People that are close to her like her. I'm sure Bernie has no "crappy stuff" in his past. The kind of campaign he has been running lately is disgraceful. Tha Hail Mary Ambush gambit- trying to use the Pope to save his campaign is close to rock bottom.

I just loved her in Thelma and Louise. I've been wondering what happened to her since she drove off that cliff.

A movie about a woman fighting against a male dominated society goes decides that to control her life and to never let a man control it again, she kills herself...now in real life she is being told by a woman that she can not control her life? I see what you are getting at, it is massively ironic and misogynistic to say a woman has to vote for another woman because of her sex...you are saying that it is sexist.

I don't think it's sexist to vote for Hillary. I don't think it's implicitly sexist not to vote for Hillary. I think either argument is lame.

She is such a horrible person. I can't believe she is so famous and so many people love her. She has not forced anyone to vote for her and called them racist or said they may be muslim. I don't think she should be president because if all of those women are mad at her for not voting for Hillary because she is a woman then she must be sexist. And as you said it is about her career, since all she has done since Obama was in office was...

It been a long way down from Bull Durham

My aunt was an actress until she passed away, she got in to a few movies, several series, starred in some, was in soap operas starting out... but the one thing she always said was the theater and independent movies was what mattered. Susan has done tons of that. She also said that as a woman, and as you get older the movie industry pushes older women out...why because it is sexist. You are basically attacking a well respected actress that has a huge amount of work she has done, for not being in anything you deem worthy now that she has gotten older? Are you bragging about a sexist system? You want a funny look at it watch the Amy S skit with all of the ladies turning too old to act.


Plus 133? How many have you been in?

was elected. Sarandon used her celebrity to damage this country and I don't respect her. My father was an actor on Broadway-He wasn't famous. He also didn't go around advocating electing someone like Trump. And as matter of fact I'm not an actor but to answer what have I done- I'm not bragging but I've produced, played and sung on a lot of very successful records-probably close to that number you came up with.

I know they have proven that people select singers based on looks, that many places are trying to use a blind of types to do try-outs to get the more skilled person. I know the music industry used to be only male dominated for singers (which seems crazy). I can not attest to the likelihood of a musician or producer getting singled out because she is an older woman, all I know is my aunt watched all of her jobs dry up as she got older, so I have seen first hand the effects. So for someone to brag about an actress doing movies that are not the most proud of as they get up in age is a bit shallow and a bit of a hypocritical thing to do in a post on sexism. Amy's skit was to the teeth on what my aunt went through and also what Susan is facing. She has been outspoken in her views, she was a Green party activist last time. To attack her for having a view is sexism as well. You are saying your view, but you are attacking her for it.

Are you a Hillary supporter defending Susan? That what it reads like, so I agree.

and the one I want running things in a crisis.

I dont listen to Susan Sarandon except when shes in the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

"She argued that it is a disservice to the entire feminist movement when women are required to vote for a presidential candidate not because of her platform or plans but mainly due to her gender. "

I must have missed the memo...but I did it anyway

Casting one's vote isn't sexist.

In Sarandon, we're talking about a would-be political pundit with the acumen of an eggplant. She, who told us all to get "F__ed" if we didn't BELIEVE in Saint Bernardo!

Sorry can't find a clip.

some Clinton aide said Fuck him and they've lost their minds...

to believe that women are voting for Hillary because she is only a woman. After millions of votes, millions of women voting, and millions of women voting for Hillary, why would one assume that they voting for her because she's a woman? Women choose a candidate they want for their own reasons, and it's no one's business, and I bet most women never have really thought about the fact that they had to justify their reason of their vote. Why is it not sexist to assume that men are voting for Bernie because he is a man? See how silly that is.

Now, I do have to say, this is a historic time if she gets the nom. She will be the first woman presidential candidate, and this is right up there with President Obama's historical run. That should not be dismissed.

and everyone has their on reasons. If someone wants to vote for her because she is a woman, well that's their choice. I'm not sure why people seem to think they get to tell people their reasons aren't valid to them. Would you say that to an AA person who voted for Obama?

a woman? strange people.

Oh yeah, requiring a woman to vote for who we say. Yeah, sure.

"There's no such thing as bad publicity."

If you can access DU, you can access IMDB.

2017 The Death and Life of John F. Donovan (pre-production)

2016 Mothers and Daughters (completed)
Millie

2016/I Spark (filming)
Bananny (voice)

more at link:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000215/?ref_=nv_sr_2

Susan Sarandon
Actress | Soundtrack | Producer
Susan Sarandon was born Susan Abigail Tomalin in New York City, New York, to Lenora Marie (Criscione) and Phillip Leslie Tomalin, a television producer and advertising executive. She is of Italian (mother) and English, Irish, Welsh, and German (father) descent. Soon after the 1968 Democratic convention, there was a casting call for a film with ... (snip)

And I don't care how acclaimed they may be. to Sarandon.

more I realize what an idiot she is

Stupid idiot. Speaking for myself and my vagina, it has other things to do, thankyouverymuch.

Just as voting for or against a candidate because of race is racist.

in their lifetimes?

wut

Just as it was for whites who voted against him for the reason he is black.