For example.. Single payer.. How is that going too happen when we barely got ACA passed? Lets start there. HOW will Sanders flip congress when as of now I have NOT seen Sanders supporter care about the down ballot.

It started with the democratic primaries last year. Both of the major candidates started by taking Single Payer off the table and instead went with the republican plan.

And when push came to shove and Obama had the opportunity to get the public option via reconciliation... he didn't push for it.

Who KNOWS what would have happened if we started the debate without removing Single payer from it.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:17 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

For a newbie you sure have bad manners.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1799345

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack. Rude

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You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:25 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Good morning sunshine
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Explanation: I could not locate the source of the Hartmann quote, but Hartmann's website indicates he remains a Sanders supporter.
I agree this was a very inappropriate response to the OP.
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....this graphic asks some really good questions. In an effort to start a real conversation we have to get past the name calling. I know they do it too but if we could start the day off on a better foot. There are some good questions here but if you want answers you need to tweak this. Have a great day!

Awesome!

about the boycott, divestment, sanctions group against Israel. So does Senator Sanders.

http://www.jta.org/2016/03/22/news-opinion/politics/bernie-sanders-says-anti-semitism-is-a-factor-in-bds

So do the VAST majority of Americans. Snowden is a criminal - you may think he did something righteous but he did break the law. I don't agree with ANY candidate 100% - that doesn't mean I have a hissy fit and forget who the real enemy is. I will vote for whoever has the D behind their name. My issue is the federal bench. Nothing else even comes close when it comes to my vote.

treatment of the Palestinians. I tend not to have a knee jerk reaction when the word antisemitism is thrown around. The Snowden conversation is an easy one.. he is a hero.. we have the right to know to what lengths our government goes to gather information on us. They weren't going to inform us ..someone needed to step up. And I no longer blindly support anyone with a D behind their name. The Federal Bench is a huge concern of mine as well. What do you thing of Garland.

for my taste. I want another Ginsberg. But it's not just the supreme court. It's the entire federal bench (which Pres Obama has done a masterful job of packing much to my delight). With the supreme court knotted up 4-4, it's even more important the circuit courts are doing the right thing. Like I stated before, no other issue even comes close for getting my vote.

person is the perfect example of a neoliberal Democrat who's beliefs are much more Republican than Democrat. This person believes in the national security state just like a good Republican does.

as being pro choice, pro gay rights, pro union, pro environment - just where the fuck to you think I would have a home in today's republican party? You purists disgust me with thinking you get to decide who is and who isn't a Democrat.

Yet you support a candidate who voted for off shore drilling, gets huge amount of money from big oil & has said "No—I have been on record in favor of a late-pregnancy regulation that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother."
Yup, this is what we don't understand.

my priorities is entirely your problem. That pathetic poster said I was a republican - given my positions, do you really think I would have a home in the republican party? Do you? Now stop the purist bullshit with me - I'm seriously not interested.

So there's that
Nobody is doing any purist bullshit. It was an honest statement and maybe you should go back and re-read what it is I said. That's the disconnect between Sanders and Hillary supporters.
And FYI-It's hard to be a purist when you're not a Dem but an Indy

That poster seems to have anger management problems - they have 3 hidden posts in one thread I was just on (that got locked because he/she was getting so much crap they deleted the OP which locks the thread). And yes, there are purists in the Bernie camp - you may not be one but for the last 6 months I've been told I can't possibly be a Democrat and vote for Hillary. So I listed things I believe in and ask whether I would have a home in the republican party - something none of the Bernie supporters, including yourself see fit to answer.

Well you're a Dem yes but the way I see it, the Dems as a party have moved right pretty hard. For me, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the 2 anymore these days. Everything is so mish mashed together. Sure there's always the defining issues as you stated but then there are things like the Patriot Act where people like Rand Paul are more liberal than Hillary on. You can hate me for saying that but I am only pointing out how crazy it has gotten.

for feeling differently than I do - only disdain and frustration when they attack me for feeling the way I do and given my history of voting for and fighting for liberal causes for decades. My grandfather (may he rest in peace) told me as a child my arm would fall off if I ever voted republican and grandpa never lied. My issue is the federal bench - no issue even comes close for me because that's where the laws are actually decided (I think all these anti-trans/anti-gay laws are going to get tossed on 14th amendment grounds). Ginsberg is my favorite justice so calling me a republican is such an outrageous distortion of actual facts, it does get me very frustrated.

I'm waiting for one of them to explain how - 6 months ago - TPTB were able to divine that entire buildings and blocks in Brooklyn were going to vote for Bernie on Tuesday (Hillary cleaned up in all 5 boroughs in NYC) - they think only his supporters were effected. They sound like imbeciles.

Does everybody realize how serious this elections is?

If you don't want these things, don't vote for them.

just childishly voting for the lady because we like her pantsuits. Sanders supporters are so serious and informed and righteous.

Except there appear to be a few million less of y'all, you appear to be mostly white and educated, and for some reason you go to rallies but not to polling places.

I agree with Hillary on many issues, and with Sanders on many issues. But only one of them has experience relevant to being president or winning a national election, and since the issues I care most about depend on a progressive Supreme Court, she has my support as more likely to win (and don't quote polls taken before Trump has said the words "Comrade Bernie.&quot

The idea that HRC supporters are stupid dupes is the condescending bullshit that is costing Bernie good will and moderate support. Calling African American southerners "conservative" was of a piece with that. Mocking the people who vote for Hillary even though she wins a majority of working-class and minority votes and Sanders wins white college students who don't vote anyway is not progressive. Bernie is not a saint or a god. Hillary is not a villain or a monster.

Anyway we are almost done with this little warmup round. Bernistas are just the last to admit it.

She supports $15 an hour, but not as a federal minimum unless it is voluntary - what is the point of a voluntary minimum? She thinks it is fine for a large city like Manhattan, but not in the suburbs but often the suburbs are not cheap.

Plus she does not want to make it a leap to $15 (where voluntary) she wants it to be general so people can ease into it - but it is way over due, wages are actually falling since it has been so long since a minimum wage raise - not voluntary.

I say she does not support it, but she says she does under very strict standards and not for everyone.

Now my opinion on boycotts and divestment, is do what you want, the government should not be telling you where you don't want to spend you money if you want to boycott, do it!

I won't go on because it will just reflect the regular argument with my sister.

Clinton does not oppose $ 15 minimum wage, she wants a gradual increase, because that’s a realistic approach.( both business wise and due to the political clima)

And tuition free college and univsities...have you read the Sanders fine print.?

Yeah, it’ll be free if the governors of America put in about $28 billion...

and that will happen right ?

Lead to reasonable conclusions to support some other candidate ...

against the carbon tax.
Her energy policies are flatly anti-science.

and whine about his income tax until there is no "there" there, etc.

What are the issues you support you who support Hillary?

Is "she has more votes" an issue?
Is "I am a woman" an issue?

What are the issues?

why I say a lot of Hillary supporters are former mod-repubs. And the way they respond to perfectly reasonable questions and arguments just proves my theory correct. Because there responses are exactly 100% the way repubs respond when you want to have a reasonable policy discussion. They attack, deflect, or flat out make shit up.

It's y'all who are star struck not us

And they can't seem to focus on ANY issues, just personal attacks. EMPTY!

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I am interested in hearing the answers as well.

I think some of these points are misleading, if technically accurate. But I agree with,mmore or less, on many of these issues. I disagree with her on others.

I feel pretty much the same about Bernie... I agree with him, more or less on some issues, and disagree on others.

But these kind of bullet lists completely ignore all nuance and subtlty. The world is complicated, and policy is more complicated than bullet lists.

Like free tuition. There are myriad if issues at work there. How is it funded? How are small private colleges protected? Will there be unform entrqnce standards? Can states retain preferences for in-state students! There are lots of details I think the Sanders campaign yada yadas over. For example, 20% of the funding is supposed to come from the states. How is that gonna work when the red states have mostly rejected an even more gnerous funding plan for medicaid expansion. I don't wanna debate every issue here, but I did want to point out that memes like this are reductive, and in my opinion, dishonest. The world is complicated.

hartman is just flat out lying about that. Yes, the word is lying, telling total and complete untruths is lying. Snowden is a criminal. He may or may not be a criminal who is justified to have broken the law but he is a criminal. I agree with her on Syria and partially on Israel (until the same people call for divestment from Saudi Arabia, Iran, and other such locales). I agree with her on universities.

In her campaign she opposed it. Again, Hartman is lying plain and simple.

She did neither. And was all for it, until she saw that it would be politically advantageous, for the time being, to be against it. You are being willfully blind.

What are YOU going to do about YOUR local racist sheriff? Do you NOT care? Is it ONLY Sanders that matters to you?

You're really ok with that?

Israel wants us to fight Iran. You're ok with that?

And yes, she supports fracking.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/13/bernie-s/does-hillary-clinton-support-fracking/

Her "regulations" on fracking are just a talking point to stall states from banning fracking in their own states.

Sid

I really think that is the "New" Democrats' primary reason for everything that they are doing.

by Transperency Pages and all...

Quite a collection you have there.

'Hillary Clinton opposes single-payer healthcare.' She favors strengthening and improving the Affordable Care Act. When that takes place I believe it helps pave the way for single-payer healthcare. Social security and civil rights legislation, as two examples, took years to build and improve upon and still require eternal vigilance to preserve and protect. I too hope for single-payer healthcare and expansion of medicaid at state levels until there are enough votes in Congress for it.

'She opposes reinstating Glass-Steagall.' Her proposals for comprehensive Wall Street reform are strong and sweeping. I support her proposed reforms and support reinstating a stronger and more modernized version of Glass-Steagall.

'She opposes a $15 minimum wage.' She proposes raising the federal minimum wage from $7.25 per hour to $11 per hour. She does not oppose any employer or state or city choosing to raise their minimum wage higher than that. The argument against raising the federal minimum wage higher than that now is that it could cost jobs. I tend to agree with her on that for now, until we close up more loopholes that allow corporations to ship jobs overseas.

'She is in favor of the death penalty.' I oppose it in all cases so I disagree with her there. She only favors it for violations of federal criminal law, like massive acts of terrorism. She opposes the death penalty in all instances under state law.

She opposes marijuana legalization. I don't think that statement is true or accurate. Perhaps at a federal level for now, but I haven't seen her opposing any state or municipality choosing to decriminalize or legalize the sale of marijuana.

She opposes free tuition at universities. She doesn't oppose any state or private university choosing to have free tuition. She doesn't want to make it mandatory for many reasons she has described. I agree with her on this issue because I feel federal funds can and should go more toward earlier education and toward making colleges and universities more affordable for those in need of financial assistance, and debt relief for those who attend community colleges and public universities.

She wants to make flag burning a felony. If this is true now, I disagree with her on it.

I'm voting for Hillary to help strengthen and improve the Affordable Care Act, strengthen Planned Parenthood, help improve the economy and reign in Wall Street abuses, get bipartisan support for reforming our criminal justice system, and help push strongly for comprehensive immigration reform.

I credit Sanders supporters for helping move her more to the left and for going on record in outlining her policy. I hope the democratic nominee wins in November and the entire party moves further to the left. I believe she will make outstanding Supreme Court appointments, and appointments throughout the federal judiciary. I think she is effective at playing hardball to strengthen and build upon the successes of the Obama administration. I think hardball is needed. I also think we need a broad coalition to win at state and local levels and at the federal level.

her statements are just like Trump's -- "I'll do a terrific job, much better than so and so."
No, to Bernie's plan, I'll do a better job with Obamacare. And that's it. No explanation as to how. The others are the same, just words. Dodd-Frank is to use AFTER the banks crash the system the next time. If you listen to real economists, overwhelmingly they go for Benie's plan.
It's Hillary's so-called, unspecified plans that are pie in the sky. "No we can't" is not the slogan of a true Democrat.