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YouDig

(2,280 posts)
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:07 AM Apr 2016

The best scenario, I think, is for Bernie to stick around, but tone down the attacks.

Do what is best to unify the party and bring his supporters onboard with Hillary. I see that there are calls for him to withdraw now, but that could risk alienating some of his supporters, especially if he is seen as being forced out.

Looking at the calendar, next week has 5 primaries with a bunch of delegates at stake, and the polling is looking good for Hillary. He probably loses 4 out of 5, and then everyone will know for sure that the campaign is settled. But after that, the calendar becomes more friendly to him. He can probably hold his own in Indiana and WV, and then comes Oregon on May 17, which should be a big win for him. It would make no sense for him to drop out with Oregon on the horizon. And after that, it's close enough to June 7 that he might as well stay in and let all the states vote.

David Plouffe made a pretty aggressive comment calling it "fraud" to keep fundraising when he has no path forward, but a lot of candidates have run for president and raised money when they had no path to victory. There's some "caveat emptor" here too because if people want to give him money to keep going, they have the right to.

I think if instead of dropping out abruptly, he does gradually, changing his rhetoric along the way, it would be good for the party.

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The best scenario, I think, is for Bernie to stick around, but tone down the attacks. (Original Post) YouDig Apr 2016 OP
for clarity to us supporters of Bernie, what kind of attacks should he tone down? NT Joob Apr 2016 #1
For example, going after her for speaking fees or fossil fuel donations. That lawsuit YouDig Apr 2016 #3
Those are issues we care about, not attacks. It raises the question of Corruption. Joob Apr 2016 #10
Those aren't "issues", they are criticisms of one candidate. YouDig Apr 2016 #21
Okay, fine. Is Hillary still using Citizens United? If so, can you clarify why? Joob Apr 2016 #25
She's using it to defeat the GOP. The same reason Obama did. YouDig Apr 2016 #27
Okay, why does she want to get rid of it? Joob Apr 2016 #30
Because it corrupts the political process to have all that unlimited money. YouDig Apr 2016 #31
If it corrupts political process, how won't it corrupt her? Joob Apr 2016 #33
I'm sure it does, a little, nobody comes out of this clean. YouDig Apr 2016 #38
Okay, another issue Bernie supporters Worry about. Fracking. Joob Apr 2016 #40
The larger point I'm getting at is that instead of "Hillary is bad because she's pro-fracking" YouDig Apr 2016 #43
Okay, how about this "No-Fly zone in Syria" Joob Apr 2016 #48
I'm the wrong person to ask about what to do in Syria or in the Middle East generally. YouDig Apr 2016 #50
Okay, what's Hillary's best proposal that Bernie Supporters should look into? Joob Apr 2016 #51
It's less successful than Bernie's strategy. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #44
So now asking what a candidate has promised wealthy donors is called an attack. onecaliberal Apr 2016 #36
If Hillary has it in the bag with her bought and paid for state delegates notadmblnd Apr 2016 #53
Yeah, because the GOP will never bring those things up. Live and Learn Apr 2016 #14
Of course they will, but when it comes from the same party it is more damaging. YouDig Apr 2016 #17
How so? notadmblnd Apr 2016 #55
So lets not help the GOP, shall we? nt hack89 Apr 2016 #32
Sure, lets nominate a candidate that doesn't have all that baggage. nt Live and Learn Apr 2016 #64
Too late. Unfortunately they let actual voters make that choice hack89 Apr 2016 #65
No. Those are legitimate concerns. winter is coming Apr 2016 #18
Just don't mention any of the... dchill Apr 2016 #7
That's probably what he's going to do.nt sufrommich Apr 2016 #2
I agree with everything you wrote. griffi94 Apr 2016 #4
He has to ramp up the attacks to win and even to protect Hillary from herself. w4rma Apr 2016 #5
Finally I came to a comment that makes sense and isn't from the land of make up dreams. pdsimdars Apr 2016 #16
I agree with you too. notadmblnd Apr 2016 #54
Absolutely HDSam Apr 2016 #57
I think Sanders has a good message apcalc Apr 2016 #6
I would not ask him to "tone it down" but he could focus more on his issues awake Apr 2016 #8
what a patronizing pile of horseshit! m-lekktor Apr 2016 #9
Ah, and another person who sees past nonsense. Thank you too. Succinctly and correctly stated pdsimdars Apr 2016 #19
Bernie is in it to win. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #11
he has a complicated decision--there is a downside for going scorched earth geek tragedy Apr 2016 #13
We are far from scorched earth territory. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #23
And should continue to clarify Hillary as part of the problem of corruption. pdsimdars Apr 2016 #20
That is a legitimate campaign issue. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #28
Hillary chose to hit Bernie with lies like the CFMA vote. Complete bullshit. think Apr 2016 #12
Both candidates have distorted the facts. All politicians do that. YouDig Apr 2016 #15
If you seriously believe it's time to start defeating the GOP, then you should start talking up pdsimdars Apr 2016 #22
+1 n/t Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #24
Even if I agreed with that, there's really no path to victory left for Bernie. YouDig Apr 2016 #26
If you really believe that you should be courting Bernie supporters. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #37
I agree, Hillary should do that. YouDig Apr 2016 #42
I think she's still focused on trying to beat him. Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #45
She definitely was pre-New York. She started hinting at a more unifying tone in her NY victory YouDig Apr 2016 #47
Her fuller alliance with the CM Admiral Loinpresser Apr 2016 #49
Well not true. Weaver was on MSNBC and explained Bernie's path. pdsimdars Apr 2016 #62
She will be comfortably ahead in elected delegates, and the superdelegates YouDig Apr 2016 #63
Nope, the attacks are good! Nt Logical Apr 2016 #29
Tone? Hiraeth Apr 2016 #34
NO lmbradford Apr 2016 #35
Add me too please if I'm not already there! Lucinda Apr 2016 #56
done/ lmbradford Apr 2016 #58
The best scenario, I think, is for Bernie to stick around, and step up the attacks. Autumn Apr 2016 #39
+100000000000000000 nt restorefreedom Apr 2016 #52
You seem not to know that Bernie started to attack only in response the Hillary's attacks. Do you Cal33 Apr 2016 #41
So you don't want Bernie telling the truth, got it! B Calm Apr 2016 #46
What attacks? AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #59
No sale. It is the responsibility of the voters to scrutinize the candidates for president. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #60
Bernie isn't doing this to be Hillary's hype man. frylock Apr 2016 #61

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
3. For example, going after her for speaking fees or fossil fuel donations. That lawsuit
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:12 AM
Apr 2016

about her joint fundraising. And just the general tenor, like "not qualified."

Joob

(1,065 posts)
10. Those are issues we care about, not attacks. It raises the question of Corruption.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:23 AM
Apr 2016

Maybe answers will help unify the party. Because that's all we want.

Can you clarify Hillary's answers on these issues?

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
21. Those aren't "issues", they are criticisms of one candidate.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

The issues are bank regulation, environment, Citizens United, etc. He can talk about those without attacking Hillary.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
31. Because it corrupts the political process to have all that unlimited money.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:43 AM
Apr 2016

The thing is, those are the rules. You have to win with the current rules in order to change them.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
38. I'm sure it does, a little, nobody comes out of this clean.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:49 AM
Apr 2016

And even without Citizens United, people that donate the max $2700 or even more like at the Clooney thing obviously get more access to politicians than people who don't.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
40. Okay, another issue Bernie supporters Worry about. Fracking.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

What exactly is her stance on that?

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
43. The larger point I'm getting at is that instead of "Hillary is bad because she's pro-fracking"
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:54 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie could just say "fracking is bad" and leave Hillary out of it. That would be better for everyone at this point, since Hillary is going to be the nominee, and there will be a lot more fracking and everything else if she loses to Trump or Cruz.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
48. Okay, how about this "No-Fly zone in Syria"
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:03 AM
Apr 2016

Why should we have that? As I understand.. it's like this

Imposing a no-fly zone, [Gen. Martin E. Dempsey] said, would require as many as 70,000 American servicemen to dismantle Syria’s sophisticated antiaircraft system and then impose a 24-hour watch over the country.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
50. I'm the wrong person to ask about what to do in Syria or in the Middle East generally.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:04 AM
Apr 2016

The way I see it, there are no good options.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
51. Okay, what's Hillary's best proposal that Bernie Supporters should look into?
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:08 AM
Apr 2016

I also thank you, for actually having a discussion, in a General Discussion forum.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
44. It's less successful than Bernie's strategy.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:54 AM
Apr 2016

Hillary is cash strapped. Bernie isn't. I'm sending him a few shekels next payday. We have the financial mojo to defeat the GOP. I question whether Hillary has that ability, dark money notwithstanding.

onecaliberal

(32,861 posts)
36. So now asking what a candidate has promised wealthy donors is called an attack.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:48 AM
Apr 2016

Wow, not only did the party leave me they moved to the other side of the world.

ITS THE LYING AND CORRUPTION STUPID. millions of us are DONE with this shit, burying your head in the sand isn't going to change facts. When she loses, and she will. You folks will have no one to blame but yourselves for running the weakest candidate we could possibly find. Can you imagine what you'd be saying about republicans if they were running a candidate under FBI INVESTIGSTION. Her unfavorables outweigh her favorables. 67% believes she lies, her refusals to release the transcripts only confirms this.

Our concerns may not be yours, but they damn sure aren't attacks, blaming the victims is republican, why are so many so called dems acting like reublicans.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
53. If Hillary has it in the bag with her bought and paid for state delegates
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:14 AM
Apr 2016

What does it matter if the Sanders campaign goes full throttle on attacks? If Sanders is done for, whats the freaking point of stroking HRC and her campaigns ego?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
65. Too late. Unfortunately they let actual voters make that choice
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:48 PM
Apr 2016

even if I agreed with you, there is nothing I can do to help you.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
18. No. Those are legitimate concerns.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:31 AM
Apr 2016

And frankly, it smacks of hypocrisy for the Clinton campaign to be lecturing anyone about "attacks". If Clinton wants some unity, she could start by tell her surrogates not to falsely insinuate racism and sexism every five minutes.

The convention is three months from now, and it's unlikely either candidate will arrive at the convention with enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. We'll have 3+ months after that to unify the party. If three months isn't long enough, six months ain't gonna do it, either. Trying to shut down Bernie now in the name of "unity" is likely to increase dissension, not lessen it.

dchill

(38,497 posts)
7. Just don't mention any of the...
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:13 AM
Apr 2016

illegal, immoral or unethical things either of the Clintons has done. Capisce?

griffi94

(3,733 posts)
4. I agree with everything you wrote.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:12 AM
Apr 2016

He should stay in and start talking about
the differences between the Democrats and the GOP.

Keep having the rallies and reaching out to younger voters and the progressives.

Maybe get them involved in what planks they'd like to see the Democratic Party
enshrine.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
5. He has to ramp up the attacks to win and even to protect Hillary from herself.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:13 AM
Apr 2016

Hillary will commit political suicide when she flip-flops to neoconservatism for the general election and beyond.

Sanders should stop her from winning by winning, or at the very least impede her willingness to go neocon.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
16. Finally I came to a comment that makes sense and isn't from the land of make up dreams.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:30 AM
Apr 2016

What kind of nonsense are they trying to push? Crazy.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
54. I agree with you too.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:23 AM
Apr 2016

there's no reason to play nice. She is corrupt. The party is corrupt. Besides, does anyone really think republicans are going to play nice?


So what will good will Sander's "toning it down" do?

HDSam

(251 posts)
57. Absolutely
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:59 AM
Apr 2016

No matter the outcome, so long as Bernie stays in the race he pushes everything to the left, requiring Hillary to adopt progessive positions she normally wouldn't have and probably hadn't considered until Bernie announced his candidacy.

Of course, whether she will honor those campaign promises if she's elected is another matter, but at least we have those to fall back on when we demand action.

apcalc

(4,465 posts)
6. I think Sanders has a good message
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:13 AM
Apr 2016

his voters deserve a chance to support him, so he should see it through.

It would be good for the sake of everyone if both sides could tone it down. We have some nasty R's to fight in November who will be funded by big money and will stop at nothing.

awake

(3,226 posts)
8. I would not ask him to "tone it down" but he could focus more on his issues
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:17 AM
Apr 2016

Trump will not tone it down, Bernie should continue to build a base for bring our party back to the roots of what it was under FDR and continue to dismantle the politics of the 90s run by Wallstreet Banks.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
11. Bernie is in it to win.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:24 AM
Apr 2016

He (and we) should do everything possible to ensure his victory. He should continue the stark contrast between his campaign and pervasive political corruption in America. He should be very aggressive within the context of the massive propaganda campaign now being waged by the Corporate Media. Can he overcome this huge Establishment hurdle? Given the ubiquitous contempt for Corporate Media, it may be doable. We are in this to win and I believe we will.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. he has a complicated decision--there is a downside for going scorched earth
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:27 AM
Apr 2016

not only for the country and the party, but also for him personally, should he not win--and his chances at winning are miniscule at best.

if he goes scorched earth, he will lose the ability to be an effective spokesman for his cause, as the media and party establishment will just file him under "Nader"

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
23. We are far from scorched earth territory.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:37 AM
Apr 2016

This cycle will probably never rival the 2008 Dem primary. For example, President Obama pictured in a turban or him calling her "Annie Oakley." The wild card here, in my view is how nasty Brock and Podesta get in terms of wedge rhetoric, dirty tricks and illegality.

Btw, how anyone is labeled by Corporate Media and Dem Party establishment is morally irrelevant and increasingly politically irrelevant, imo.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
28. That is a legitimate campaign issue.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:41 AM
Apr 2016

I believe her role as a broker in massive arms sales as SOS should receive far more scrutiny.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
12. Hillary chose to hit Bernie with lies like the CFMA vote. Complete bullshit.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:24 AM
Apr 2016

Sanders voted for an Omnibus spending bill that the CFMA was slipped into which everyone but four people voted for. Hillary had the audacity to make the claim that Saunders voted for the CFMA as if it was a stand alone bill.

In fact Bill Clinton signed that spending bill. Furthermore it was Hillary's chief economic adviser, Gary Gensler, who helped create the CFMA and pushed for it to become law. Sanders was opposed to the CFMA and immediately spoke out against it once he found out it was tacked onto the spending bill.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34497-the-most-disingenuous-attack-on-bernie-yet

That's just one example of how Hillary is willing to distort the truth to denigrate Sanders.

So if Sanders wants to hit her with real facts I say good for him.

Hillary can't play dirty and act like it's Sanders who is bad for talking facts.


YouDig

(2,280 posts)
15. Both candidates have distorted the facts. All politicians do that.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:29 AM
Apr 2016

It's getting time to let bygones be bygones and focus on the goal of defeating the GOP.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
22. If you seriously believe it's time to start defeating the GOP, then you should start talking up
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:35 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie. He is the only Democratic candidate who can do that. Hillary is deeply flawed candidate, with historically high negatives. She'll never make it. Time you guys accepted reality and get in line behind Bernie.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
26. Even if I agreed with that, there's really no path to victory left for Bernie.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:39 AM
Apr 2016

I mean, look at the calendar, there just aren't enough opportunities for him to make up delegates. Even if he wins California by like 20 points.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
37. If you really believe that you should be courting Bernie supporters.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:48 AM
Apr 2016

That's what I would do. Based on the hysteria of the Corporate media and the rhetoric of the money-strapped Hillary campaign, I conclude he is viewed as very much a real threat to win.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
45. I think she's still focused on trying to beat him.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:56 AM
Apr 2016

Because he is a clear threat, a la Senator Obama in 2008.

Admiral Loinpresser

(3,859 posts)
49. Her fuller alliance with the CM
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:04 AM
Apr 2016

is designed to create a self-fulfilling prophesy, imo. But things change. The only constant over time has been Hillary fading politically and financially and Bernie surging. We will have to see if those trends continue.

If we started the race over today, it wouldn't even be close. Bernie has had to go thru a huge learning curve as to how to counteract Corporate Media, as well as how to build a national campign structure, etc. We are in the late middle rounds now and he is stronger than ever. Does he have enough time and enough states to seal the deal? Time will tell.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
62. Well not true. Weaver was on MSNBC and explained Bernie's path.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:37 PM
Apr 2016

BTW, it is pretty difficult for Hillary to get the number of pledged delegates to get the nomination before the convention. She would need to get 68% of all the remaining delegates. Neither will have the required pledged delegates.
Superdelegates do not vote until you get to the convention.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
63. She will be comfortably ahead in elected delegates, and the superdelegates
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:40 PM
Apr 2016

will respect the elected delegates. Bernie can't catch up in elected delegates, so there's no path.

lmbradford

(517 posts)
35. NO
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:47 AM
Apr 2016

I think the people who have joined up in the last few days who are saying this are plants and I now have you on ignore. Bernie is and always should speak the truth and do it loudly. Everybody knows how corrupt the Clintons are and denying it or taking it easy on her when she MAY face a Republican is stupid and foolish. No republican will take it easy on her and Bernie has been much kinder to her than he should have been.

I cannot believe sometimes what I have to read on this board. This is an election....not a patty cake party.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
39. The best scenario, I think, is for Bernie to stick around, and step up the attacks.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

David Plouffe is full of shit. The best thing for the party is for Hillary to step down and go work on her "charity".

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
41. You seem not to know that Bernie started to attack only in response the Hillary's attacks. Do you
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

remember at the very first Democratic Primary Debate, he even tried to protect her from other
candidates when they brought up the topic of her e-mails? He said he was sick and tired of
the subject and that they should talk about other more relevant issues. And the other
candidates did stop.

And he ain't gonna drop out. You can forget it.

And a hearty welcome to DU!.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
60. No sale. It is the responsibility of the voters to scrutinize the candidates for president.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:04 PM
Apr 2016

Even if they become the nominee.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
61. Bernie isn't doing this to be Hillary's hype man.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:37 PM
Apr 2016

And if Hillary can't hack it against Sanders, then she is going to have a rude awakening in the GE.

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