2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe best scenario, I think, is for Bernie to stick around, but tone down the attacks.
Do what is best to unify the party and bring his supporters onboard with Hillary. I see that there are calls for him to withdraw now, but that could risk alienating some of his supporters, especially if he is seen as being forced out.
Looking at the calendar, next week has 5 primaries with a bunch of delegates at stake, and the polling is looking good for Hillary. He probably loses 4 out of 5, and then everyone will know for sure that the campaign is settled. But after that, the calendar becomes more friendly to him. He can probably hold his own in Indiana and WV, and then comes Oregon on May 17, which should be a big win for him. It would make no sense for him to drop out with Oregon on the horizon. And after that, it's close enough to June 7 that he might as well stay in and let all the states vote.
David Plouffe made a pretty aggressive comment calling it "fraud" to keep fundraising when he has no path forward, but a lot of candidates have run for president and raised money when they had no path to victory. There's some "caveat emptor" here too because if people want to give him money to keep going, they have the right to.
I think if instead of dropping out abruptly, he does gradually, changing his rhetoric along the way, it would be good for the party.
Joob
(1,065 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)about her joint fundraising. And just the general tenor, like "not qualified."
Joob
(1,065 posts)Maybe answers will help unify the party. Because that's all we want.
Can you clarify Hillary's answers on these issues?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)The issues are bank regulation, environment, Citizens United, etc. He can talk about those without attacking Hillary.
Joob
(1,065 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)Joob
(1,065 posts)And why won't those reasons affect her?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)The thing is, those are the rules. You have to win with the current rules in order to change them.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Just trying to figure this out.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)And even without Citizens United, people that donate the max $2700 or even more like at the Clooney thing obviously get more access to politicians than people who don't.
Joob
(1,065 posts)What exactly is her stance on that?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Bernie could just say "fracking is bad" and leave Hillary out of it. That would be better for everyone at this point, since Hillary is going to be the nominee, and there will be a lot more fracking and everything else if she loses to Trump or Cruz.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Why should we have that? As I understand.. it's like this
YouDig
(2,280 posts)The way I see it, there are no good options.
Joob
(1,065 posts)I also thank you, for actually having a discussion, in a General Discussion forum.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Hillary is cash strapped. Bernie isn't. I'm sending him a few shekels next payday. We have the financial mojo to defeat the GOP. I question whether Hillary has that ability, dark money notwithstanding.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Wow, not only did the party leave me they moved to the other side of the world.
ITS THE LYING AND CORRUPTION STUPID. millions of us are DONE with this shit, burying your head in the sand isn't going to change facts. When she loses, and she will. You folks will have no one to blame but yourselves for running the weakest candidate we could possibly find. Can you imagine what you'd be saying about republicans if they were running a candidate under FBI INVESTIGSTION. Her unfavorables outweigh her favorables. 67% believes she lies, her refusals to release the transcripts only confirms this.
Our concerns may not be yours, but they damn sure aren't attacks, blaming the victims is republican, why are so many so called dems acting like reublicans.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)What does it matter if the Sanders campaign goes full throttle on attacks? If Sanders is done for, whats the freaking point of stroking HRC and her campaigns ego?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)How is it more damaging when it comes from the same party?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)even if I agreed with you, there is nothing I can do to help you.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)And frankly, it smacks of hypocrisy for the Clinton campaign to be lecturing anyone about "attacks". If Clinton wants some unity, she could start by tell her surrogates not to falsely insinuate racism and sexism every five minutes.
The convention is three months from now, and it's unlikely either candidate will arrive at the convention with enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. We'll have 3+ months after that to unify the party. If three months isn't long enough, six months ain't gonna do it, either. Trying to shut down Bernie now in the name of "unity" is likely to increase dissension, not lessen it.
dchill
(38,497 posts)illegal, immoral or unethical things either of the Clintons has done. Capisce?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)He should stay in and start talking about
the differences between the Democrats and the GOP.
Keep having the rallies and reaching out to younger voters and the progressives.
Maybe get them involved in what planks they'd like to see the Democratic Party
enshrine.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)Hillary will commit political suicide when she flip-flops to neoconservatism for the general election and beyond.
Sanders should stop her from winning by winning, or at the very least impede her willingness to go neocon.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)What kind of nonsense are they trying to push? Crazy.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)there's no reason to play nice. She is corrupt. The party is corrupt. Besides, does anyone really think republicans are going to play nice?
So what will good will Sander's "toning it down" do?
No matter the outcome, so long as Bernie stays in the race he pushes everything to the left, requiring Hillary to adopt progessive positions she normally wouldn't have and probably hadn't considered until Bernie announced his candidacy.
Of course, whether she will honor those campaign promises if she's elected is another matter, but at least we have those to fall back on when we demand action.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)his voters deserve a chance to support him, so he should see it through.
It would be good for the sake of everyone if both sides could tone it down. We have some nasty R's to fight in November who will be funded by big money and will stop at nothing.
awake
(3,226 posts)Trump will not tone it down, Bernie should continue to build a base for bring our party back to the roots of what it was under FDR and continue to dismantle the politics of the 90s run by Wallstreet Banks.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)He (and we) should do everything possible to ensure his victory. He should continue the stark contrast between his campaign and pervasive political corruption in America. He should be very aggressive within the context of the massive propaganda campaign now being waged by the Corporate Media. Can he overcome this huge Establishment hurdle? Given the ubiquitous contempt for Corporate Media, it may be doable. We are in this to win and I believe we will.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)not only for the country and the party, but also for him personally, should he not win--and his chances at winning are miniscule at best.
if he goes scorched earth, he will lose the ability to be an effective spokesman for his cause, as the media and party establishment will just file him under "Nader"
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)This cycle will probably never rival the 2008 Dem primary. For example, President Obama pictured in a turban or him calling her "Annie Oakley." The wild card here, in my view is how nasty Brock and Podesta get in terms of wedge rhetoric, dirty tricks and illegality.
Btw, how anyone is labeled by Corporate Media and Dem Party establishment is morally irrelevant and increasingly politically irrelevant, imo.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)I believe her role as a broker in massive arms sales as SOS should receive far more scrutiny.
think
(11,641 posts)Sanders voted for an Omnibus spending bill that the CFMA was slipped into which everyone but four people voted for. Hillary had the audacity to make the claim that Saunders voted for the CFMA as if it was a stand alone bill.
In fact Bill Clinton signed that spending bill. Furthermore it was Hillary's chief economic adviser, Gary Gensler, who helped create the CFMA and pushed for it to become law. Sanders was opposed to the CFMA and immediately spoke out against it once he found out it was tacked onto the spending bill.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34497-the-most-disingenuous-attack-on-bernie-yet
That's just one example of how Hillary is willing to distort the truth to denigrate Sanders.
So if Sanders wants to hit her with real facts I say good for him.
Hillary can't play dirty and act like it's Sanders who is bad for talking facts.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's getting time to let bygones be bygones and focus on the goal of defeating the GOP.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Bernie. He is the only Democratic candidate who can do that. Hillary is deeply flawed candidate, with historically high negatives. She'll never make it. Time you guys accepted reality and get in line behind Bernie.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)I mean, look at the calendar, there just aren't enough opportunities for him to make up delegates. Even if he wins California by like 20 points.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)That's what I would do. Based on the hysteria of the Corporate media and the rhetoric of the money-strapped Hillary campaign, I conclude he is viewed as very much a real threat to win.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Because he is a clear threat, a la Senator Obama in 2008.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)speech.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)is designed to create a self-fulfilling prophesy, imo. But things change. The only constant over time has been Hillary fading politically and financially and Bernie surging. We will have to see if those trends continue.
If we started the race over today, it wouldn't even be close. Bernie has had to go thru a huge learning curve as to how to counteract Corporate Media, as well as how to build a national campign structure, etc. We are in the late middle rounds now and he is stronger than ever. Does he have enough time and enough states to seal the deal? Time will tell.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)BTW, it is pretty difficult for Hillary to get the number of pledged delegates to get the nomination before the convention. She would need to get 68% of all the remaining delegates. Neither will have the required pledged delegates.
Superdelegates do not vote until you get to the convention.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)will respect the elected delegates. Bernie can't catch up in elected delegates, so there's no path.
Logical
(22,457 posts)I think the people who have joined up in the last few days who are saying this are plants and I now have you on ignore. Bernie is and always should speak the truth and do it loudly. Everybody knows how corrupt the Clintons are and denying it or taking it easy on her when she MAY face a Republican is stupid and foolish. No republican will take it easy on her and Bernie has been much kinder to her than he should have been.
I cannot believe sometimes what I have to read on this board. This is an election....not a patty cake party.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)bye bye
Autumn
(45,092 posts)David Plouffe is full of shit. The best thing for the party is for Hillary to step down and go work on her "charity".
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Cal33
(7,018 posts)remember at the very first Democratic Primary Debate, he even tried to protect her from other
candidates when they brought up the topic of her e-mails? He said he was sick and tired of
the subject and that they should talk about other more relevant issues. And the other
candidates did stop.
And he ain't gonna drop out. You can forget it.
And a hearty welcome to DU!.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Even if they become the nominee.
frylock
(34,825 posts)And if Hillary can't hack it against Sanders, then she is going to have a rude awakening in the GE.