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MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:39 AM Apr 2016

The Times They Are A'Changing

So, Thom Hartmann has converted to Hillary. At least one superdelegate who was supporting Bernie Sanders has switched her allegiance, and several others who had not endorsed have now endorsed Clinton.

The tide for Bernie has reached its high mark, gone slack, and now is receding, it seems. The next high tide that comes in will be a Clinton tide, it appears.

Here's how you will know for certain that the party's over: H. A. Goodman will admit that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee. Seth Abramson will follow along slavishly shortly thereafter. When Ariana Huffington's website no longer is the source for unlimited attack on Clinton, the die will have been cast.

But, one final wave will remain to come to shore: Bernie Sanders will endorse Hillary Clinton for election as President. He may wait until the convention to do that, but he may also do it before that time, when it becomes crystal clear that he no longer has a path to the nomination. That could come as soon as next Wednesday. Watch his public appearances over the next week. If he dials down his negative rhetoric against Clinton, you will know.

This collection of mixed metaphors is my opinion. Thanks for reading. And I offer my abject apologies to Bob Dylan.

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Times They Are A'Changing (Original Post) MineralMan Apr 2016 OP
Yes, reality will set in. I think it will happen to varying degrees. Trust Buster Apr 2016 #1
Some are sure to reject this altogether. MineralMan Apr 2016 #2
Yes, narcissism varies in individuals. Some will feel "personally" aggrieved and never support her. Trust Buster Apr 2016 #3
Neocon stooges ALL. John Poet Apr 2016 #4
Ah...I see. MineralMan Apr 2016 #5
Let's clarify that... Adrahil Apr 2016 #8
Yes, I DID say it. John Poet Apr 2016 #12
Well, at least you own up to that ridiculous statement. NT Adrahil Apr 2016 #14
Let me clarify: John Poet Apr 2016 #17
Geez, that's generous. Adrahil Apr 2016 #22
I think it IS generous. John Poet Apr 2016 #37
Well, enjoy whatever it is you're gonna do. NT Adrahil Apr 2016 #38
That's how I read it. Odd, I think. MineralMan Apr 2016 #13
Has the "write-in" brigade appeared yet? If not, they should be arriving soon. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #6
Don't bother - they're here. MineralMan Apr 2016 #9
That comes from a really great musical number. Lucinda Apr 2016 #24
Yes, a sad, sad song. Hard to sing, too, as I MineralMan Apr 2016 #26
I think it seems simple because it flows so well, but yep, I agree, it's a tough one! Lucinda Apr 2016 #28
Yes. I've only seen one amateur production of it. MineralMan Apr 2016 #29
My favorite version is the one starring Sally Ann Howes & George Lee Andrews Lucinda Apr 2016 #30
I just watched the video of Sally Ann Howes singing MineralMan Apr 2016 #31
The whole production is awesome. I think you can watch it in pieces Lucinda Apr 2016 #32
Thanks again. When I have time, I'll do that. MineralMan Apr 2016 #34
MacArthur Park is extra tough! The breath control is crazy. This cartoon just showed up Lucinda Apr 2016 #35
Thanks for the toon! MineralMan Apr 2016 #36
Oh yes. auntpurl Apr 2016 #21
Whatever. At this point, I don't even care anymore. Adrahil Apr 2016 #23
What superdelegate? Because that post led nowhere! And Hartmann, if you couldn't see the role he Skwmom Apr 2016 #7
Okay... you folks are now careening into self-parody. Adrahil Apr 2016 #10
Thank for for taking the time to reply. MineralMan Apr 2016 #11
Ironic that you use a song about real change, but support the candidate of the status quo. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #15
Yuck Yuck, you called the O/P a conservative Dem2 Apr 2016 #16
Yes, a conservative Democrat. There are a lot of them. Hillary is their leader. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #18
I'll be happy with either Bernie or Hillary as our candidate Dem2 Apr 2016 #20
What did Hartmann say? joshcryer Apr 2016 #19
Basically, the truth.... Adrahil Apr 2016 #25
A couple of points Rebkeh Apr 2016 #27
Excellent post, Rebkeh! Punkingal Apr 2016 #33

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
2. Some are sure to reject this altogether.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:47 AM
Apr 2016

Not enough, though, to make a difference in November. Bernie Sanders has promised to support Hillary if she becomes the nominee. He is a true mensch. I hope his supporters are listening to him when he makes his endorsement. I hope they hear him and follow suit.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
3. Yes, narcissism varies in individuals. Some will feel "personally" aggrieved and never support her.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

Both sides of the political spectrum has such people. They usually nullify each other. That's why I say it will happen to "varying" degrees.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
17. Let me clarify:
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:09 AM
Apr 2016

Calling everyone who voted for Hillary "neocon stooges" is to give them
the benefit of the doubt...


that they aren't actually neocons themselves....



 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
37. I think it IS generous.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 08:44 PM
Apr 2016

I generally believe that "you ARE what you vote for"
which means a LOT of foreign policy neoconservatives
have grown like black mold in the Democratic party.


If they prefer to think of themselves as "liberal interventionists",
that's fine, but makes little differences. They still help to enable
the neoconservative foreign policy of regime change abroad,
put into action by George W. Bush & Dick Cheney
to bring us the Iraq war quagmire.

Now way too many Democrats who opposed Bush are willing to vote for
someone who will bring us more of the same,
just because they say "I am progressive" and have a (D) next to their name.
That leads me to believe their opposition to Bush was
always about party, and never about principle.

Calling such professing Democrats "neoconservative stooges" is generous,
when they are using their votes to promote
neoconservative foreign policy
by voting for Hillary.

The neoconservative godfather Robert Kagan
prefers Hillary to all Republican candidates who ran this year,
and has endorsed her. I think that speaks for itself.





MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
13. That's how I read it. Odd, I think.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:59 AM
Apr 2016

Not a well thought out attack on Clinton supporters, I'm afraid.

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
9. Don't bother - they're here.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:56 AM
Apr 2016

Excuse the allusion, please. I'm in an alluding sort of mood this morning.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
28. I think it seems simple because it flows so well, but yep, I agree, it's a tough one!
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:34 AM
Apr 2016

I prefer more contemporary musicals as a rule, but I have a soft spot for that one. Just a great show.

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
29. Yes. I've only seen one amateur production of it.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:42 AM
Apr 2016

I don't know that it has been in revival recently. "A Little Night Music," "The Fantasticks" and "Chess" are a few of the oddball, but much-loved musicals I have always enjoyed.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
30. My favorite version is the one starring Sally Ann Howes & George Lee Andrews
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:59 AM
Apr 2016

I've seen the video of the stage production a bazillion times. I used to use it when I was teaching a college Fine Art Theatre course.

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
31. I just watched the video of Sally Ann Howes singing
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:11 AM
Apr 2016

that on YouTube. Thanks for mentioning it. Excellent!

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
32. The whole production is awesome. I think you can watch it in pieces
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:17 AM
Apr 2016

on youtube, which is a little annoying, but so worth it. The young girl who plays the daughter is also great.

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
34. Thanks again. When I have time, I'll do that.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:21 AM
Apr 2016

I saw that they have it in segments there on YouTube.

Back in the days when I sometimes performed as a vocalist, I was forever making mistakes in choosing my material. "Send in the Clowns" was one of those. "Macarthur Park" was another. I love both songs, but pulling them off well in a performance is something else again. I was never satisfied with doing them, and stopped trying to sing them in public. The phrasing needed just wasn't within my capabilities, I guess.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
35. MacArthur Park is extra tough! The breath control is crazy. This cartoon just showed up
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 01:36 PM
Apr 2016

in my FaceBook memories feed...so appropriate!

Had to link to another source to bring it here though...

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
21. Oh yes.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:21 AM
Apr 2016

Jill Stein, I believe. Although some seem to be plumping for Elizabeth Warren, which is odd since she's not actually running for President.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
7. What superdelegate? Because that post led nowhere! And Hartmann, if you couldn't see the role he
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:55 AM
Apr 2016

was assigned to play, I'd suggest you pay closer attention.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
10. Okay... you folks are now careening into self-parody.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:57 AM
Apr 2016

Thom Hartmann is part of the conspiracy man!

MineralMan

(146,315 posts)
11. Thank for for taking the time to reply.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 09:58 AM
Apr 2016

As for Thom Hartmann, I never have followed what he says. He's always been "Blowin' in the Wind," to extend my Dylan allusion. His conversion, however, is informative, I think.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
15. Ironic that you use a song about real change, but support the candidate of the status quo.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:04 AM
Apr 2016

Not surprising though since conservatives do it all the time.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
20. I'll be happy with either Bernie or Hillary as our candidate
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:21 AM
Apr 2016

Am I a conservative for defending Hillary from the many unfair attacks I see here on DU?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
25. Basically, the truth....
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:26 AM
Apr 2016

That Bernie lost and it's time to coalesce behind Clinton.

But some Bernie fans have managed to whip themselves into such anti-Clinton frenzy, they may be too far gone.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
27. A couple of points
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:31 AM
Apr 2016

It will always be good business to attack Hillary, win or lose, I suspect HuffPo will keep right on doing what it's doing.

Tides cycle and pendulums swing, it ain't over yet. More to the point, you forget that this is more than one battle being fought here and Bernie is clearly winning most of them, even if he's losing the zero/sum election battle.

If Bernie dials down the legitimate calling out of his opponent, it will reveal nothing except the dialing down of legitimate calling out of his opponent. It doesn't mean he has no path simply because you say so. Saying it doesn't make it true.

I feel it's safe to say that Thom Hartmann is staunchly with Bernie in the ideological tug-of-war, that's clear to me. It's also clear that Bernie supporters are eventually going to win this one, maybe not this cycle but eventually. The party will not be able to co-opt an entire generation, its base is soon going to be dominated by today's independents, it would behoove them to stop dismissing us. The sinking stone of tribal/identity politics are going the way of the dodo bird. That much is clear.

The times, indeed, are changing.
(No apologies to Bob Dylan since I used the sentiment correctly)

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