I'm not 100% sure I like the some of the rules, but I find is suspect that all the ballyhooing is being raised now, and not prior to this particular campaign, and issues raised at this particular time.

I'm all for making changes, I'm all for having it in place well before any elections, I'm not for whining because "they" don't know the rules and frankly have done bugger all to educate themselves. I'm also NOT for allowing Non Dems to influence the Dem Nominee process.

I think it should all be primaries, less staggered, and registration should be within a month (not like new yorks 6 month shit). early voting should be allowed etc.

But.....I love the idea that the FEDS do not control how the individual States want to Primary the candidates. There is something archaic, charming, and endearing (to me) that there are rally's etc, the booing, the hissing, the cheering, it's exciting. I feel that changes are in the wind, I hope there is room left for these processes that let the voter actually participate rather only casting a vote on voting day.

And the party should fight hard for ample polling places to prevent situations like AZ and now Rhode Island.

Stop six months ago. A lot of this information was posted here on DU, along with the states which had open., semi-open and closed primaries and the DNC and GOP did not have the same rules I do hope they take the caucuses away, it prevents seniors and the handicap from voting.

Many, many disenfranchising things about the caucuses, and yet I heard a lot less complaining about them than some of the voting snafus (it's all important, I'm not discounting the issues with the primaries at all).

Another element of the caucus that doesn't get discussed is the intimidation factor. I had zero desire to go to a caucus and be yelled at like I was in 2008. When one candidate is favored, the smaller band of supporters of the other candidate kind of have to gather in a self-protective huddle - voting should not make anyone have to feel that way.

A friend went to the second round of the Washington caucuses last week and they had to listen to 500 speeches. I'm not making that up

permitted to push in to the party without belonging.

You want to play in the club, you have to be a member.


I think this is a valuable lesson to those who want to "change" a party that they DON'T EVEN BELONG TO....why don't they go try and change the GOP, and see how far they get?

smh.

Should the Party dictate the desire of the members or should its membership dictate the goals of the party. I'm not sure your approach is flexible.

...people having to come into the tent so that it gets bigger.

Although, especially in NY, it should be easier to get in. Having to buy your tickets in October just to see the show in April is silly; we're not a 5 start restaurant here.

Therefore it is restrictive to only allow those in that already agree with the posters view of life.

by hillary and bill in a locked room in the dead of night. If there was no fraud bernie would be winning 150% of all the votes and hillary zero. everything is fraud to a paranoid.

disengages people from the democratic party. like why would people even vote, if they think the vote is rigged?

It's easy! Sign up!

It's pitiful, it's just the same was when they celebrated her sermon about Ronald Reagan being an AIDS activist. Pathetic.

Really, show me, because I haven't seen anybody trilled or excited about NY's shitty problems.

i think the only rule that i 'celebrate' is closed primaries, but I believe in closed primaries. i dont think its a crappy rule.

no one celebrated her single sentence about Nancy reagan and AIDS. they thought it was a human mistake and moved on.

I see you folks are just admitting this openly now. Pathetic and undemocratic. NO ONE who is freedom loving should want to restrict Bing for anyone in any way shape or form.

vote?

from voting. Spare me your faux outrage.

you should register as a democrat. I am ok with same day registration. But I dont want republicans influencing democratic primaries.

please dont lie about what i actually said.

stand. When people vote your candidate loses. Independents shouldn't have to register with another party to vote. This is fucking America. We sent people to Iraq to die for a god damn election. This is complete bullshit.

where Bernie wins, higher turnout primaries she wins)

so no.

sure aren't going to go for her in the general. Her delegates can't be bothered to show up after the original caucus either. I think 3 states have already proved that. #Blocked.

the following states have open primaries, she won a bunch of them: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin.

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."


" because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it."

But you deny it, rather than discuss it and that's my point. Her boosters all dismissed it or cheered for it and none of them took her to task for it and none of them spoke up for the truth.

because i really think we may have differing definitions of cheering.

'She's just trying to be nice'. It would have been meaningful if one of her supporters had communicated that they understood why that was so horrible to say. None of them did. If Bernie had said GW Bush was the hero of Katrina those same people would have flayed him alive. But it was just 30 or 40 thousand dead people mostly gay so they excused, agreed and dismissed it. Not one among them took it up honestly.

Not only can I not believe she said that, I also can't believe her supporters are ok with it. I'll not be at ease in this Party until the Reagan lovers are all out of office.

Please.

Odds are excellent to superb that Clinton lost more votes in NY than Sanders did.

supporters did not give a fuck about her spewing that ignorant filth about Reagan just like they did not give a shit about the NY election problems. I said not one fucking word about Sanders nor did I claim he lost votes.
Your action here, it's you dismissing NY's election failures (which are consistent with every election of every type) and of course dismissing her Reagan comments by trying to claim I said things I just did not say.

I think the race is at the tipping point and Clinton my break away from Bernie going forward. I think I'm not alone in this feeling and I think a lot of Bernie people are very emotional about it right now. Its hard to watch a beloved candidate lose, ask any Hillary supporter in 2008. They went through the stages of grief then, and we're seeing it begin now. The Bernie supporters on the forums are expressing a mixture of denial and anger.

Not saying its over, this race could stay tight like it has been. However, if we are at the tipping point, and things tilt strongly in Hillary's favor going forward, expect more denial and anger, bargaining then depression, and finally acceptance around here.

Of NY, the facts are this: Yes something bad happened in Brooklyn and voters were disenfranchised. That, absolutely should be investigated and fixed before November. However, if we pretend that all 125,000 voters purged did vote for Bernie, Bernie would still have lost that contest. Hillary's votes in New York were that strong.

We have a lot of flaws in our election system, and yes dirty tricks can and do happen, year after year. But that doesn't mean every single problem is part of some conspiracy against Bernie.

Clinton. Bernie left Brooklyn generations ago. He has no "connect" there. No one who lives there even remembers him--they all fled elsewhere in the seventies.

actually tried to vote yesterday.

voter purges are typically for people who are dead, moved out of the county, or haven't voted in even a general election in several years.

for those that were wrongfully knocked off the rolls, I do hope they got to cast provisional ballots and I do hope they get this mess fixed.

act as if they care more about voting protection in my backyard, when in reality they are just looking for ways to delegitimize the votes that were cast, well I've had to exercise some restraint.

Local officials are investigating not only the oddly-timed voter purge, but also the typical chaos and mismanagement at the BOE.

Issues that we have to live with every year.

either.

people who try to use it for primary spin do harm to the cause of fixing it.

There was one Republican vote in my precinct (Trump). 580+ between Clinton and Sanders.

actually i dont know how many republicans voted in greenpoint

precinct across the street from us had 4 Republican votes (3 Kasich, 1 for Trump I think).

A Buzzfeed reporter was near my hood and saw the dumbest yard sign ever

Keep lying to yourself and you'll do just fine.

fts

because that's really smart of her

Well, very few are against it. We just want to get there the fastest way possible given the political realities. Sanders and his supporters yelling and ranting about the problem doesn't get us very far. Clinton used a good line in recent appearances -- some like, "it's one thing to diagnosis the problem, it's another to do something effective about it."

Her cases won't be heard for 12 years! John Kerry's case, one of them was just heard on Ohio 2004 a couple of months ago. Did anyone care? Did anyone do anything?

Hillary doesn't understand one thing:


KARMA.

Helped out as much as I can in the Black Box voting push, and all sorts of matters at that time.

John Kerry would have made an amazing President. I really thought he won that time, if not for the irregularities, suppression and so forth in Ohio and other states.

Was so shell-shocked the next day, when the reality of 4 more years of Bush was going to happen.

How massive her win was and considering the neighborhoods that had the biggest problems.

...the comments of a hell of a lot of Hillary supporters certainly lead me to believe that they don't give a damn about this country's humiliating election cock-ups...at least if it helps their candidate. I have nothing but contempt for those folk. And respect for folk like you who condemn the irregularities across the board...

people celebrate after a win. that doesn't mean that they don't care about a core Democratic issue. nor does it mean that the voting irregularities favored one of them

Never mind. Apparently Camp Weathervane can't even manage to read and recognize civil agreement. Off to Ignore with you.

make that echo chamber as small as you want, but i was not in any way being rude or uncivil.

did the M$M ignore these irregularities because Bernie won? were there threads about it in the Hillary Group?

brought in, so they had to an extra hour or two, seems more a problem with the polling places themselves and in fact the audio confirms that, not ordering enough and they were warned by the state prior to election to make sure they had enough ballots

Try to get your stories straight.

who are lurking around trying to steal your vote?

They call them 'conspiracy theories'

If the cheating benefits Hillary, they are fine with it. Most of them at least, not all...

i realize that you really don't care about the truth anyway.

margins, is not someone whose opinions I have any faith in.

What has he done effectively in regards to this? Nothing as far as I can see.

that's what he's done.

thing...

Obviously what he "did" didn't work.

E.F.F.E.C.T.I.V.E.L.Y

I think he was too busy trying to get the TPP passed and look cool on the basketball court or the golf course.

'look cool on the basketball court or the golf course'

I care about campaign reform so more blacks can vote.

I care about campaign reform so everyone can more meaningfully vote.

lost. You might not want to hear it but it is true.

While I'm typing, there's something I want to ask:

What does Hillary stand for to make you support her?

I know it's off topic, but I'm really want to know.

Also, you must be bored, because you reply to people at least one time per minute. Been refreshing your OP page to track your responses.


Now please answer my question:

What does Hillary stand for to make you support her?

It's a fair question.

In general, i like her affectively and cognitively and most importantly I believe and trust her. I don't dislike Bernie, I just like her much more. If he were the nominee, i would vote for him, because I am a solid Democrat.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/hillary_clinton_would_make_a_better_president_than_bernie_sanders_the_democratic.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/hillary-clinton-endorsement.html

Not because you mentioned Bernie's name, but because you let me know where your heart is. In order to support a candidate, he or she must have views or beliefs that you agree with. That's how it suppose to be. Blind loyalty from either side of the isle has disastrous consequences if the wrong person is elected. I'm glad that you have something to back up your support for her. The links aren't necessary. What you typed is more than enough for me. Thanks for answering my question.

it addresses just this issue. read it if you can. it often explains decision making especially moral decision making.

not voting issues in an off itself.

that's my point really

vote in NY. And no, Hillary is NOT popular in NY. Bernie Sanders won 54 of 66 counties in NY despite all the election 'irregularities' as we are calling them now.

IF this is a 'democratic issue' then we will hear from Hillary's campaign about getting those scrubbed voters to the polling booths NOW so they can exercise the right that was stolen from them.

And that is just ONE borough where voters found their registrations altered or disappeared.

So please, do not tell me this is a dem issue until we see some proof of that. You have no idea how angry people in this state are over this massive election fraud and I have heard not a thing from the Hillary campaign to address the rightful outrage.

Mayor De Blasio has acknowledged that those 126,000 voters were deprived of their right to vote in Brooklyn, making a last minute attempt to tell them they should go 'back to vote'. Too late.

NY State AG says there is going to be an investigation. Well, duh! But how does that restore the right those NYers should have had to vote in THIS primary?

From where we in NY stand, we see no evidence that election fraud is a Dem issue. Hundreds of thousands of voters here were unable to vote and nothing other than platitudes, no attempt to get them that right here, just promises of 'investigations' in the future.

Shameful, shameful and shame on NY Dems for allowing this to happen. I am a Dem in NY btw

voters. votes count, land should and does not.

this county argument is the most regressive argument that can be made. for people who claim to care about voter disenfranchisement you should NEVER make the county argument EVER. The following thread might help you understand why you should not make this incredibly right wing argument.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511799714

And you've been around long enough to know that the number of counties won means nothing. It's where the votes are that matters. And those counties were solidly Hillary's. Bernie won only one county with a major city in NY. Albany. And it wasn't by much.

a 'win' and no candidate who calls themselves a Dem should accept such dubious 'win'. Bernie won overwhelmingly in my district and all the surrounding districts. Her 'wins' occurred only where there was voter suppression. Sorry, I would be outraged if this was Bernie Sanders, but then I care about the ISSUE more than ANY candidate.

actually, were denied the right to vote in the NY primary. Bernie Supporters, I know some of them. Shame isn't it, that the Dem Party now looks worse than the Repubs when it comes to voter suppression. Odd too that the same thing happened in Az, now under investigation by the DOJ, not that it will come to anything since again it was Bernie supporters who were most affected.

this is not a conspiracy...

from Sanders supporters, and these differences are statistically significant?

So apparently at least those specific Hillary supporters either don't care or are pleased about them.

Fortunately, the NY Attorney General is not so relaxed about the problem.

and all of them have stated that they care about any voter disenfranchisement.

that's exactly my argument.

very very very few of whom are represented on du

Because this country is long overdue for a voting system overhaul and we will need all the support we can get.

It is true. Read your fellow supporters posts in response to Bernie supporters and you will see the reality of this message. They only care that she wins the nomination and they think she will win the GE.

not cast. just because i dont believe that, doesn't mean I dont care about voter disenfranchisement.

If she is elected, NOTHING will change in voter registration or fraud against voters.


Nothing.


Because she and her minions count on it.


Just like money in politics.

It just works for them

you realized that voter disenfranchisement works mostly in black & hispanic communities. these communities favor HRC and they favor the democrat in the general election. every democrat has motivation to protect the minority vote, if not for the sake of morality for the sake of their own elections/re-election.

And the young minorities are breaking from that woman.

The old, they got a little. They are afraid to lose what they got. They just don't see that there is nothing for the young unless the young demands it. I am an Xer and I see what the Boomer and older generations got and didn't give to the younger ones.

Bernie was a chance to have the peaceful change. Now we have to let the system break and from that we can rebuild something fair.

She is not the one.

think is the one. that's unrelated to any of the voting rights issues, i just stated.

when I imagine penciling in the circle by Jill Stein's name on my mail in ballot in November.

I am tired of the double speak, twisting, gaslighting, smugness and vapidness that is solidified in the Clinton campaign.

Mainly because it is true, and that tends to upset more than a few Clinton Democrats (not lobbed at you, just a general statement). If it gets her the nomination, a lot of Democrats don't give a damn how she secured it.

Unfortunately, it matters and matters to quite a few Democratic voters..

Good luck with President Trump. Nominee Hillary is going to have people eeking them selves to the polls, dismally pulling the lever and completely upset that leftist politics have been destroyed in the USA.

Then they will go on and vote for a Hillary Clinton in moronic numbers.

I will never celebrate that as a victory.

It's not all the fault of the bogeyman.

have been misinterpreted then.

They passed.


Kinda like Florida 2000 never happened.

Kinda like Ohion 2004 never happened.






A more cynical observer might suspect that the Party leadeship doesn't give a shit about our voting rights or fair elections.