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pat_k

(9,313 posts)
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:48 PM Apr 2016

Superdelegates should align with voter sentiment, ...

... but "voter sentiment" in July may not be reflected by the allocation of pledged delegates.

What if one of the candidates were suddenly embroiled in some kind of scandal? In that event, "voter sentiment" would be calling for SDs to nominate the untainted candidate, even if that candidate had fewer pledged delegates.

Or, if it became clear that the process for allocating delegates in a state was corrupt, then "voter sentiment" would be calling for SDs to weigh in and cancel out the effect.

I'm not saying either of these things are on the horizon, but shit happens.

The way I read it, Sanders is making his case to the voters. He is seeking to shape "voter sentiment." Voter sentiment in July could look a lot different than the pledged delegate allocation, and any superdelegates who choose to align themselves with voter sentiment as they see is doing the right thing.

Sticking to a "pledged delegate total or bust" position regardless of how conditions change is as unreasonable as sticking to a "bernie or bust" position regardless of how conditions change.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Superdelegates should align with voter sentiment, ... (Original Post) pat_k Apr 2016 OP
This is pretty much what Hillary did in 2008, over the objections of party leaders, Blue Meany Apr 2016 #1
No, she didn't. She conceded in June, well before the convention. pnwmom Apr 2016 #4
no, she conceded after the votes were in and geek tragedy Apr 2016 #10
Also, a true vote count, and a real winner. That didn't appear to happen in NY ViseGrip Apr 2016 #2
Do Sanders supporters not understand that Sanders is losing big in the popular vote? Squinch Apr 2016 #3
They are basically suggesting that we should ignore the results of the primaries pnwmom Apr 2016 #5
Like, knowingly disenfranchise everyone who voted up till the summer? Sounds like them. Squinch Apr 2016 #6
See post 14 pat_k Apr 2016 #15
If that's the case ... why bother with primaries at all? n/t SFnomad Apr 2016 #8
We could just have everyone yell really loud on election day. Like in Hunger Games. Squinch Apr 2016 #18
See post 14. pat_k Apr 2016 #19
Then why have supers delegates at all? morningfog Apr 2016 #28
Why say that you're totally against super delegates when you really are for them, pnwmom Apr 2016 #29
I am against them. morningfog Apr 2016 #31
I was talking about Bernie. n/t pnwmom Apr 2016 #32
I am saying exactly what I said No more no less. pat_k Apr 2016 #11
But he is not the preferred candidates. And no, that number has not been debunked. Squinch Apr 2016 #17
They probably will align with voter sentiment, Hillary has the most votes and the most Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #7
Could work out that way. pat_k Apr 2016 #13
Since Hillary needs 67% and she has more delegates than Sanders has less delegates than Hillary Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #27
The article speculates on how things could play out if neither gets 2,383 pledged pat_k Apr 2016 #30
Sanders is free to make his decisions, I hope he is not depending on making his Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #33
this is the dumbest sentence ever written: geek tragedy Apr 2016 #9
So, if Bernie had more pledged delegates in June... pat_k Apr 2016 #14
no. nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #16
Ok. I disagree. pat_k Apr 2016 #22
no, it's called democracy nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #25
Oh, for fuck's sake. I really wish you guys would stop drinking from tha Republican smear machine. Squinch Apr 2016 #21
What post are your reading? pat_k Apr 2016 #23
Yes, it is. The one where you imply that Hillary is responsible for the derivatives crash. Squinch Apr 2016 #24
Oh good god. I did no such thing. pat_k Apr 2016 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #12
voter sentiment shows hillary ahead by millions of votes. maybe you are on to something nt msongs Apr 2016 #20
 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
1. This is pretty much what Hillary did in 2008, over the objections of party leaders,
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:53 PM
Apr 2016

except that her campaign had a plan to also go after pledged delegates, who at least at that time could also switch.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
10. no, she conceded after the votes were in and
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:06 PM
Apr 2016

Obama had a majority of pledged delegates.

That's what Sanders will do too. He will not try to steal the nomination, which apparently will disappoint some of his fans who masquerade as progressives

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
2. Also, a true vote count, and a real winner. That didn't appear to happen in NY
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:57 PM
Apr 2016

the more date observed. Awful. Why would hillary think it's best to act like nothing is going on, "thank you new york!" and on to the next. How does she sleep at night? She knows this all went bad there. She appears to really not care about our voting rights.

She is the last person to lead the country, when she can't lead in finding out what happened in her 'adopted home state'. Stunning.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
3. Do Sanders supporters not understand that Sanders is losing big in the popular vote?
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:58 PM
Apr 2016

That MILLIONS more people have voted for Hillary than have voted for Sanders so far, and that number just promises to grow larger? Do you not get that?

The super delegates ARE aligning with voter sentiment.

And if you mean on a state by state basis, that STILL won't bring your candidate any closer to winning.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
5. They are basically suggesting that we should ignore the results of the primaries
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:01 PM
Apr 2016

conducted in the winter and spring -- and just take a poll this summer.


Squinch

(50,950 posts)
6. Like, knowingly disenfranchise everyone who voted up till the summer? Sounds like them.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:02 PM
Apr 2016

Cause, you know, momentum.

Their highly vaunted purity sure did disappear fast, didn't it?

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
29. Why say that you're totally against super delegates when you really are for them,
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:18 PM
Apr 2016

as long as they vote for you?

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
11. I am saying exactly what I said No more no less.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:10 PM
Apr 2016

And, BTW, the notion of "millions more" has already been debunked. Different nominating processes yield "vote counts" with radically different meaning.

If, for whatever reason, Bernie was up in the national polls as the preferred candidate, Superdelegates would be perfectly justified in supporting him, regardless of pledged delegate totals.

You can say "never will happen." Fine. If you think his national popularity couldn't possibly continue to grow, then why be so worked up? Let him stay in, make his case, and lose.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
17. But he is not the preferred candidates. And no, that number has not been debunked.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:18 PM
Apr 2016

Even accounting for those different kinds of vote counts, Hillary is cleaning his clock in popular vote.

Who is worked up? Answering your post means worked up to you?

There is no one who can prevent him from staying in. But he has already lost.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
7. They probably will align with voter sentiment, Hillary has the most votes and the most
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:02 PM
Apr 2016

Delegates so it stands to reason she should get all of the super delegates.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
13. Could work out that way.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:12 PM
Apr 2016

Or could work out some other way.

We'll know how it plays out when it plays out. For example, could go like this (it gets interesting as you get deeper into it):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1798895

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
27. Since Hillary needs 67% and she has more delegates than Sanders has less delegates than Hillary
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:58 PM
Apr 2016

So Sanders needs a larger percentage, now how is this math going to work? It is all in the math, was to figure, now what the poster may have meant was Sanders needed 67% of the delegates.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
30. The article speculates on how things could play out if neither gets 2,383 pledged
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:19 PM
Apr 2016

... which is the number needed to "cinch." (i.e., win without help of any pledged delegates).

I think the writer makes some interest points about what sorts of strategies could come into play if neither gets sufficient pledged delegates to "nail it down" without superdelegates.

Delegates represent influence, and the convention is not just about nominating our presidential and vice presidential candidates. Delegates are also involved in decisions about procedures and platform.

I just found it interesting. I see a lot of reasons Bernie should stay in through the convention, as I describe here, and here. The article raised implications I hadn't thought about.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
33. Sanders is free to make his decisions, I hope he is not depending on making his
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:32 PM
Apr 2016

Decision based on this information. If he does, I hope he does not say this, it would really look foolish.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
9. this is the dumbest sentence ever written:
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:03 PM
Apr 2016
Sticking to a "pledged delegate total or bust" position regardless of how conditions change is as unreasonable as sticking to a "bernie or bust" position regardless of how conditions change.


Pledged delegate or bust means that the voters should choose. That is the pro-democracy position. It is not unreasonable. In fact, disagreeing with the notion that the voters should decide puts someone in the category of Antonin Scalia or Fidel Castro.

Bernie-or-Bust is a childish temper tantrum of a concept. It is never reasonable.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
14. So, if Bernie had more pledged delegates in June...
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:15 PM
Apr 2016

... and then we found out he had been in cahoots with Citibank on some big slimy mortgage derivative scheme, you wouldn't want the pledged SDs to weigh in nominate Hillary?

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
22. Ok. I disagree.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:26 PM
Apr 2016

Sounds to "Bernie or Bust"-ish to me. Cut off your nose to spite your face and all.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
21. Oh, for fuck's sake. I really wish you guys would stop drinking from tha Republican smear machine.
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:22 PM
Apr 2016

Sure you don't want to bring up Vince Foster now?

Response to pat_k (Original post)

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