2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIF Hillary is the nominee and is indicted in October by the FBI....
Who gets the nomination? Would it be her VP pick or would it be Bernie?
Honest question because I don't know.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)that Bill Clinton would have been impeached over total bullshit that the Cassandras had back in 1998. Oh, wait...
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)The endless repetition of "FBI investigation! Pending indictment!" has been going on daily for months.
Most rational humans would get a clue by now -- it ain't happening.
^^^^^arrogance^^^^^^^
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)You better get use to it. Do you think Republicans are going to easy on her? You are going hear it a lot more. You haven't heard anything yet. None stop scandal all the time is all you will heard.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Bummer.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)It doesn't make him a worse candidate.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)You and too many of Sanders's fans think that they are the only ones capable of thinking. So, when things don't go their way, they assume it's due to the stupidity of the opposition. It is not.
Give the opposition some credit and some hard thinking about why Sanders is losing. (Hint: it isn't voter suppression)
think
(11,641 posts)That's a problem...
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)I studied the issues, studied the positions of both candidates, and decided Hillary was the superior choice.
Again, you assume no one out there is thinking, and you are wrong.
panader0
(25,816 posts)I believe that Bernie, although an Independent in the Senate, has by far the more traditional
Democratic Party values than HRC.
rock
(13,218 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)if she manages to win the primary but is still under investigation, I will leave the party the day she has nominated and I will not return. I refused to have the taint associated with me. Besides I would not vote for her in the general as I have stated.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Just trying to parse "need the Parnie" (I post on mobile too so I know what it's like)
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)If the President elect refuses office, then VP elect becomes President.
It may be possible to replace the nominee some time after the convention. The Democratic VP nominee was replaced after the 1972 DNC.
I was wondering how that all worked. I truly wasn't sure.
I appreciate the answer
apcalc
(4,465 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)I didn't ask your opinion if it would happen, I asked how the scenario plays out.
Pay attention please.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)at the convention, and if so, we (all of us and Bernie) should keep a close eye on that and who gets chosen to decide it. Because that exact scenario that you raise might be on some minds, as being some business they have to take care of.
They would probably want to do it under the radar and to HRC's advantage, if they can get away with it.
Good question.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)but her withdrawal wouldn't be a given. (She could still run under indictment.)
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)You can run for President from prison.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)However what would happen if she is indicted? I am wondering how the scenario plays out because I don't see Dems letting her continue. So who gets it? Her VP pick or Sanders or whom? Biden?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Perhaps the best candidate ever did!
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)You handle the Court case I'll handle the Campaign.
He won both.
Response to Downwinder (Reply #13)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Like the Border fence. Fences keep people in as well as out.
Response to Downwinder (Reply #41)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Response to Downwinder (Reply #49)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)as a Probation Officer.
Response to Downwinder (Reply #56)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
global1
(25,252 posts)eastsidemanglerNY
(15 posts)Didn't James Michael Curley perform his duties as Mayor of Boston while imprisoned?
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)During his 4th and final term as Mayor of Boston, he served time in Danbury Prison for a felony conviction.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)glad you didn't mention Bengazhi too
pinebox
(5,761 posts)It was an honest question because I don't know so please put your Popsicle flavored branding iron away
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Really tired of the Bern bros posting these "honest questions" designed to slam Hillary
Bernie is not going to be the Democratic nominee
Ask a honest question around and people come out in droves trying to distract things.
I didn't ask if he was going to be the nominee or not.
Answer my question or are you unable to?
Bernie Bros?
Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my milk pouring.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Let us adults have a conversation about important issues that may effect our lives for years to come.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)If you have nothing to contribute maybe you could find another sandbox to pee in. Please let us adult have a conversation about important issues that could effect our lives for years to come. Surely there is another sandbox around here where they would welcome you. Try the Hillary Group.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)You may have missed the February 25, 2016 story about this because the two reporters are from "FOX News".
Lynch confirms career Justice Department attorneys involved in Clinton email probe
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/25/lynch-confirms-career-justice-department-attorneys-involved-in-clinton-email-probe.html
Attorney General Loretta Lynch confirmed to Congress Wednesday that career Justice Department attorneys are working with FBI agents on the criminal investigation of Hillary Clintons email practices and the handling of classified material.
Legal experts say the assignment of career Justice Department attorneys to the case shows the FBI probe has progressed beyond the initial referral, or "matured," giving agents access to the U.S. governments full investigative tool box, including subpoena power for individuals, business or phone records, as well as witnesses.
The Associated Press reported earlier this month that career lawyers were involved, but Lynch's comments are the most expansive to Congress.
"If the FBI makes the case that Hillary Clinton mishandled classified information and put America's security at risk, will you prosecute the case? Republican Congressman John Carter asked Lynch during a budget hearing.
"Do you know of any efforts underway to undermine the FBI's investigation? And please look the American people in the eye and tell us what your position is as you are the chief prosecutor of the United States," Carter pressed.
Lynch replied, "...that matter is being handled by career independent law enforcement agents, FBI agents as well as the career independent attorneys in the Department of Justice. They follow the evidence, they look at the law and they'll make a recommendation to me when the time is appropriate,"
(more at link)
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)You don't think, you just dream of an indictment. What if...what if...what if... The rest of us are moving on to important matters but you keep clinging to your sad dream.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
k8conant
(3,030 posts)it is joyful.
randome
(34,845 posts)Dreaming of an indictment for Clinton is sad. IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
k8conant
(3,030 posts)rather I'm supporting a leader who shares my dream of a future to believe in.
Principles not Personalities
randome
(34,845 posts)I also happen to think the same about Clinton. To be honest, her 'inspiration' could do with a little touch-up, but she will be great as President. IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Care to answer it? Maybe go back and re-read what I asked and specifically see "honest question".
I'm trying to understand how this would happen under the political process.
Put your vitriol away
Response to pinebox (Reply #27)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
randome
(34,845 posts)'What happens if Clinton is hit by a meteor?' would be just as relevant. She isn't even under investigation so the subtext of these sort of questions is always to remind us that you're hoping for this to change. At least that's how it seems to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)"She isn't even under investigation"? I haven't heard that before.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-formally-confirms-its-investigation-hillary-clintons-email-server
Why say this at all, since it was widely known to be true? Because in August in response to a judges direction, the State Department asked the FBI for information about what it was up to. Sorry, the FBI said at the time, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any investigation.
Now, in a letter dated February 2 and filed in court Monday, the FBIs general counsel, James Baker, notes that in public statements and congressional testimony, the FBI has acknowledged generally that it is working on matters related to former Secretary Clintons use of a private email server.
Is this like arguing what the meaning of "is" is?
randome
(34,845 posts)I'm rarely willing to go out on a limb, I'm rather cautious about making pronouncements about things that are out of my control but I feel comfortable saying this: there will be no indictment.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
I disagree and it seems like this is simply semantics - if someone was investigating your use of a server would you argue that you weren't under investigation? But i do agree that she probably won't be indicted.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)You're spinning. I don't especially care what you think, I stated I asked an actual question because I didn't know. I'm sorry you can't seem to get that, not my problem.
Welcome to my ignore list.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...whose tangle of corruption is like an octopus gripping her candidacy, with tentacles in the State Department, in the Clinton Foundation, in her basement where her private email resided, in the emails themselves, in her donors, in her secret $225,000 speeches to Wall Street firms, in the arms deals with foreign governments, in voter suppression that favors only her candidacy, in one of her secret advisers (Sydney Blumenthal) and two of her known ones (Robert Kagan-PNAC, and Henry Fucking Kissinger), in Libya, in Honduras...
Really, what is to be expected of this but a chaotic mess, wherein somebody will have to choose between a VP candidate that an indicted Clinton chose, and the other candidate--Bernie Sanders--the man who tried to warn us in his gentlemanly way?
Who knows? Clinton owns the Democratic Party leadership at this point (or, say, 95% of it). DWS and the super-delegate pawns. What would they do? Whatever they would do, it's likely to be in secret with only themselves and a few billionaires invited. There is no protocol for it, that I know of. They will probably get together and anoint Clinton's choice, who will then lose the election. So it won't matter what they do. And Clinton will have destroyed her bought-and-paid-for party.
Oh, yeah, and they might invite Obama and Biden to weigh in. Gawd, what a mess it would be!
I think it's much more likely that the FBI is protecting Clinton than planning to recommend indictment, no matter what laws she may have broken, no matter what malfeasance she is guilty of. She is one of the rich and powerful, and we know how justice goes in that regard. But I really, really don't know.
All we can do is get familiar with what is known and speculate. The lingering cloud of this year long investigation with no end in sight may point to protection, i.e., they're keeping the RW morons in Congress at bay while this very rich and very well-connected person arranges her coronation. That seems plausible to me. But maybe not. There could be things going on behind the scenes (CIA? NSA? Pentagon? White House-Obama? Kerry's State Dept.?) that we can't know and will never know. And the thing could be quite straight--she violated some national security procedures and FOIA laws, and the FBI is establishing that, or not establishing it, and will tell us some day. Could also be that aides are falling on their swords, with the FBI either okay with that, or pushing deeper.
A couple of things make it look serious: The State Dept. backing off (or being pushed out). Involvement of DOJ. Involvement of NSA. Immunization of at least one witness. A lot of agents involved over a long period of time.
Is it just being made to look serious? Or is it serious? Dunno.
Who would be the nominee in that case? God only knows.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If she's indicted before election day the damage will be absolute. If she were to continue t run or the party manages some gymnastics to front another candidate all the voters will see is a party that tried its best to hoist a criminal into the nation's highest office. At that point we'd be just as well off by trying to running Richard Nixon.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)that she probably wouldn't drop out - Good Lord, they'd have to drag her off the national stage with a hook!
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)Will they just pick someone without the votes from the people? Will there be an internal struggle for power? Will there be any precedents set?
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)She likely loses. If she wins she either stays on the ticket and becomes president or the Electors would choose whoever they want. First to 270 wins. Chances are Democrats would propose someone.
It's basically the same thing that would happen if a candidate died between the end of the convention and Dec. 31.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)So they would continue the ticket?
Ok thanks!
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)And it probably couldn't change in most states. I added one more comment to the other post.
Response to pinebox (Original post)
CompanyFirstSergeant This message was self-deleted by its author.
TexasTowelie
(112,232 posts)grand juries do.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)That's not how it works.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)If we get to the end of May, and thee is not report, then there are political shenanigans going on at the FBI.
No I think there is zeromchance of indictment against Hillary at all. But if it were to happen, it would be in May or June. No way it comes after the convention.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He will at least signal the gist of his report to the DoJ by the end of May.
There really is no reason to stretch this out beyond then.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)at the convention. Forget about the Hillary thing for now - there should be a contingency plan in place that is transparent. If the insiders hold the power of decision in this hypothetical situation, I'm sure informed party members of the DEMOCRATIC party will revolt. Check the calendar - its 2016. So much information and public power.
Vinca
(50,276 posts)that might happen before an election. People die out of the blue, too. There should be some guidance for such an event.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Unless Bernie wins the nomination (which he isn't going to) I don't see any way that he's the nominee if Hills is indicted.
Sort of amazing/shocking/sad that the leading candidate for the Dem nomination is under active investigation by the FBI. Always felt that a federal investigation disqualified you from running. Guess not for a Clinton.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)This is a real possibility.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Ot mighty mouse "here i come, to save the daaaaa--aaaaay!"
Which is depressing, because Biden is the one guy i would want up there LESS than hillary.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I suspect early to mid summer. Be patient.. it will all be settled soon.
Bob41213
(491 posts)It looks into what happens if the nominees die (both R and D): http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/09/dead_by_election_day.html
I think it broaches just what you talk about because it assumes the convention has occurred.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Because it has never been a likelihood, I have never heard what would happen in any past election and I would bet that there is NOTHING in the Democratic party rules that she would have to step down. In addition, as you posit October, there is a problem that the ballots are already set and many may have already been sent out - especially to the military and other people overseas.
Not to mention, being indicted does not imply conviction. I hope this does not come to pass, but if it did, it opens what we really believe on "innocent until proven guilty". To demand that HRC step down, losing her chance to be President means that - even if she is found to be not guilty - she will have paid an enormous price.
If she stepped down, I assume that it might depend on when. If it after the ballots could be changed, I think her name would still be on it - leading to a pretty murky mess. Otherwise, if it is after the convention, I assume it would be the VP. I do not see any reason why it would go to Sanders.