2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThere Is a Moderate Republican in This Race, But She’s Running as a Democrat
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/there-is-a-moderate-republican-in-this-race_b_9704194.htmlWho is the real Democrat -- Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton? Why are fringe candidates getting all of the attention this year? Who are the moderates? These questions can all be answered by understanding something that has been unfolding for 40 years.
Historical perspective on Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton
Who is the real Democrat Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton? Why are fringe candidates getting all of the attention this year? Who are the moderates?
These questions can all be answered by understanding something that has been unfolding for 40 years: The center of American politics has shifted steadily to the right. Today, neither party is even remotely similar to what it was when Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, for example, first entered politics.
In the late 1970s, as large corporations turned into transnational giants, they pumped huge amounts of cash into the political system. This largesse lured, first, the Republican Party, in the 80s, followed by the Democratic Party in the 90s, and precipitated a rightward political shift as both parties rewrote their policies to compete for the same corporate contributions.
dsc
(52,164 posts)Name the federally elected Republican (US House or US Senate) that believes in all of the following, pro choice, pro LGBT rights, increasing and indexing the minimum wage, pro citizenship for people who came here without papers, debt free college, increasing the EOC, increasing taxes on the wealthy. I eagerly await your reply. BTW to me the word moderate as opposed to liberal would mean that there should be dozens in the House and at least a couple in the Senate but I will take one.
insta8er
(960 posts)become politically expedient to reverse her views? Don't let me do your dirty work for you. You know that she has flipped positions on these exact same issues because it was more in line with the democratic party.
dsc
(52,164 posts)she has been in favor of increasing taxes on the rich and the minimum wage her entire political career. She was in favor of LGBT rights short of marriage her entire political career. So I ask once again, name one, just one single solitary GOP person in the US House or US Senate who holds just those positions. One, that is all I ask.
insta8er
(960 posts)g out against some of those same issues you brought up. But hey, why would you want to ruin your fairytale by something as inconvenient as the TRUTH?
Baobab
(4,667 posts)insta8er
(960 posts)If something like this was known about Bernie, they would have crucified him.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)this is just outrageous
insta8er
(960 posts)dsc
(52,164 posts)and yet again, I ask where does it say ever that she wasn't pro choice, where does it ever say she wasn't in favor of raising the minimum wage, and where does it ever say she opposed anything other than marriage for LGBT. Now once again, I ask for the name of one, just one, elected federal GOP member who believes those things. I am waiting. And yes, I will ask this every single solitary time people such as you tell us the blatant lie that she is a moderate Republican.
insta8er
(960 posts)his time. Clearly you can hear Anderson Cooper summarizing her position against and then for. How difficult is that? but hey keep living in your bubble and comfort zone...it seems to be working for you.
dsc
(52,164 posts)I will ask one more time, name one of the over 300 GOP members of the House and Senate that believe those things. One, I am asking for one, less than .3 percent of them. One single, solitary member of the House or Senate that is GOP and believes those things. You are the one who said she is a Republican.
insta8er
(960 posts)but the rest...Endless wars, keeping harsh sentences, keeping the pharmaceutical companies in charge. etc. But you know that you want to win on little things so you can call yourself the winner in this debate, knowing full well that she has a lot in common with the GOP agenda...maybe not just those things. So YEAHHHHHH YOU ARE A WINNER>..yet you lose....So now go and start wasting other peoples time..I am done with you.....shhhuuuush
dsc
(52,164 posts)the fact you do speaks volumes.
insta8er
(960 posts)or other peoples rights by supporting someone with a morally corrupt background. Evidence is out there...just open your eyes...now go and pester someone else..shuuuushhh..
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)insta8er
(960 posts)alan2102
(75 posts)Moderate, or center-right. Her Republican compadres are mostly openly Nazi. Her fascism is kinder, gentler.
dsc
(52,164 posts)just one single solitary elected federal Republican who holds her views. There are over 300 of them so I am asking for 0.3% of them.
TM99
(8,352 posts)so Clinton was for LGBT rights just not marriage now?!
I know you think marriage is the one and only right LGBT people didn't have in the 1990's and 2000's but believe it or not, it isn't. I can still be fired tomorrow for being gay in my very own state, something she has been in favor of changing since the 1990's at least. I could have been arrested for sodomy in my very own state until 2003, something she was opposed to since at least the 1980's. I was banned from adopting children in many states until the 2000's and still was until literally just a few weeks ago in one state (I can't recall which one but I think Alabama). She favored adoption by gays since at least the 1990's. Again, marriage isn't the be all end all of gay rights
Clinton was never a friend to the LGBT community. By supporting and pushing DOMA & DADT, she insured that all of the other rights would never be discussed. She pandered to the religious right on the topic, and you expect us to believe she was for other things?
Jesus, this is the Third Way. Speaking out of both sides of their mouths while actually accomplishing nothing. She did not advance LGBT rights in this country. She was a follower and not a leader.
I get you support her. I get you have to rationalize that support.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Usually in favor against such things, when her personal fortune requires it.
She sure does know how to mimic whichever side of the coin is needed to be the most likable and agreeable to the group she speaks to at any given time, a great liar! A trait that makes her good at three card monte, and grifting in general, but shows a lack of any true character.
I guess becoming a multimillionaire by using her skills is something a certain type would admire, but to others, it shows only that she is adept at pandering as advised and focus groups approve when required.
After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner.
She is by this definition (one she has embraced save for pandering and lying during elections for as long as she has been in politics.) A moderate Republican.
dsc
(52,164 posts)she didn't switch on increasing taxes on the rich, and she didn't switch on rights other than marriage for LGBT. We used to have openly racist Dems too. So again, I ask name one elected GOP member now who believes in the above. Go ahead I am waiting.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)dsc
(52,164 posts)if you don't know that, then you might, just might, want to actually know what you are talking about before you post. The last trimester, which is what she was talking about, the state has the right to regulate abortion as long as there is a health exception. That has been the law since 1973 or over 40 years.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)She's a cold warrior. She loves international over domestic issues. Well, domestic issues are priority. Yes, she has more delegates. But nationally he's catching up or caught up to her. People heard the message they prefer someone who pays attention to domestic issues. But we made end up with a leader stuck in the seventies who think the way to success is taking corporate money and allowing them to be come global magnates.
Thank you very much DSC One day you too or your children may be working for six pence paid by a global corporatist. Who's going to stop them then?
You people lack vision. . . Bernie sees it.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)This "she's a republican" is repeated so often by uninformed Sanders supporters that they think it's true
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I think she would negotiate them away for the benefit of her own family and friends. I don't trust her anymore. At all.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Thanks for posting. As a 1970s Democrat I've witnessed the rightward lurch of my Party. It's been strange watching Hillary supporters claiming Bernie isn't a Dem. when he more closely matches the historical positions of our Party than Sec. Clinton. Some of the Hillary supporters think we are joking about his but we aren't. It's true.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... and they're posting as Democrats.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)Maybe you should ask them.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)You must mean all those people supporting Hillary Clinton.
They're supporting a Republican, so they must BE Republicans.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)However, it does seem that RONALD REAGAN's foreign policy is just A-OK with them.
"You are what you vote for"
LiberalFighter
(50,980 posts)to name a few?
Compared to the rest of Democrats in the Senate, Hillary is in the middle of the pack.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/hillary_clinton/300022
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)Seriously people, get some new material.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... on mixed aisle forums that's been debunked by link and quote millions of times as if they're going to catch someone sleeping.
I'd be glad when the primaries are over
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)So I guess it evens out
awake
(3,226 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts).. so I don't know if I would consider another dem socialist for prez again
awake
(3,226 posts)It is just that he is not about to fund raise for the DNC who is funneling money raise in the name of the party into the campaign of his opponent Hillary Clinton. Bernie is not stupid he know full well how corrupt the DNC has become.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)There are many examples of Bernie calling himself a Socialist
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)For instance, the party has moved more right than during the Eisenhower admin in the fifties. Did you know that?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)What ever will we do?!
McCarthy called from his grave- he wants his royalties forwarded to him every quarter.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)So sad.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Hopefully he will use his popularity to get Dems elected in the mid terms
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I've always liked Bernie; he is just not my choice.
awake
(3,226 posts)With the Tea party and Trump destroying the Republican Party multinational corporations have quietly been staging a take over of the party of FDR and turned it into the party of,for & by the 1%
Bernie is one of the few non-millionaires in the Senate most have sold their soul even Houard Dean has become a lobiest for the large Drug industry.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Will be disappointed.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Otherwise, it just looks, well, just not so fully thought out, ya know? Grammar, commas, capitalization, spelling...all those little things help you make your point.
Just sayin'.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)OhZone
(3,212 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Persondem
(1,936 posts)Such a tired old line.
Google her voting record
Google her organizational ratings.
Google her position on political spectrum graphs.
I've posted such things dozens of times.
But when the Truth doesn't matter ...
Beacool
(30,250 posts)See, two can make equally divisive statements.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s.Hillary is touting herself to be Obama 3.0.
I don't want to relive the '80s again, with a Raygun on steroids Prez.?
Didn't care for moderate R's then or now.