Although probably DWS is looking to land the AG job, so she can start shutting down all the states with medical and recreational marijuana laws.

Within the realm of possibilities, a very centrist/right Democrat could be as bad as a Republican.

At what point do we say, "enough is enough, the system is broken, all the parties are corrupt, and this needs to end"?

I'm saying it now:

"Enough is enough, the system is broken, all the parties are corrupt, and this needs to end."

He doesn't belong on the ticket, not after the comments he approved, that his surrogates have made.

Every time he goes negative, his numbers go lower. After she is nominated, though, she might want to consider him for the Labor seat in the cabinet.

that's just not an issue.

Denial...it's what's for dinner.

It's difficult though. There is very little breaking information on the case. If you want to know what's going on, you have to really dig in and due your own due diligence.

After reading about what she did--and researching the laws--it's difficult to see how she isn't indicted.

So now all you proponents of Democracy want the supers to overturn the will of the voters? It won't happen. He will get out next week or after he loses California.

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

She and her cohort burned all the bridges.

Goading/baiting doesn't become you.

he will focus almost exclusively on taking rights away.


Hillary is no prize when she says idiotic stuff like you pointed out, so lets hope Bernie wins.

But if he doesn't, I dont recommend suicide.

That's just not happening.

She could mend some fences with a good choice, though.

Will she do the right thing? They are in a hell of a pickle.

But I always figured it was a long shot.

Still, I think his remaining in the race is nothing but beneficial to her. Also not a hugely popular opinion in some parts.

And I think he should "suspend his candidacy" (as they say) at a time and place of his own choosing.

I do think he needs to get off the trashing and bashing bus, though. All that's doing is destroying his legacy. And, more to the point, he needs to make it clear that all this whore language and other ugly remarks need to just stop.

I think his supporters have done more to screw him over than they realize with the sexist and ugly language. When they do the "Game Change" book/movies on this contest, I think we'll learn that all the name calling didn't help.

Therefore it is a lie to say that going negative on Hillary hurts his favorability.

smh.

Changing opening hours in polling stations where Bernie might have a strong hold, and closing many down....

Funny how whenever disrepencies happens in the polling station, it's always Bernie who gets hurt while Hillarybots claim a clean vitorcy where all the rules have been followed, and they are covered fairly in the corporate media.

I hope Hillarybots are qually understanding when GOP steals the election come this fall, since they have been using the same tactics as DNC is using now.

Hillary won Brooklyn by double digits...she lost votes not him. He has not set foot in Brooklyn for what 50 years? It is completely different.

and that's been documented elsewhere in this thread--you've not demonstrated that a majority of those people would have voted for Bernie.

And calling supporters of HRC "Hillarybots" says more about your frustration and anger than anything else.

This whole "It's a conspiracy" meme is unhelpful. So's the "Poor people don't vote" meme, and all the "PTB" shenanigans.

Your team just doesn't motivate ENOUGH people to vote. That's life and that's why you're losing.

Regardless of who they might be voting for.

The term "Hillarybot" is no more worse than "Bernie bros", and sexist accusations against anyone not bowing down to Establishment queen.

At least the Bernie campaign is not an astroturf.

As if Hillary is a real motivation speaker.

The joke of today is "Hillary is the best motivator for voters"...

Seems that neither you or Hillary wants a single of the 43% of the electorate come this fall.

So i wish you luck with the 30% of all voters in a smaller and smaller tent, room for CEOs and neoliberals only.

And getting those huge cheers?

And do you think that all the people your side have been condescending to will vote for Hillary in November? Do you think that your corporate candidate have earned all the votes she has managed to disenfranchise and you mock? Your sensitivites toewards real progressives is as distateful as your sides accusations of racism and sexism.

I hope you realize that you don't get any friends or allies with your hate towards progressives. And these progressives won't bown down like your corporate 3rd way democrats who sold out the party and suckered people like you to vote against their own interests for.

Minorities giving Hillary their votes, is like voting for the plantation owner who whipped them last week under the promise that the whipping won't be so severe this time.

To me, her rallies seem kind of....empty in comparison...Fact free and arrogant. Remember her tone against Obama in 2008?

You are doing the same thing now. And that will make your side lose in the long run. Your Wall Street dominionism is over. Wall Street fraudsters, war profiteers, and money launderers will be brought to heel. And just like Hillarybots, they have no consioence, and no compassion.

Besides, I hope you are a happy camper when republicans are using the same voter purge tactics as your DNC has done several places already.

But then again, you're a RWer who apparently have more in common with republicans of the 90s than a real progressive. Your lack of empathy, and liberal values shows this in spades.

Since you think that Bernie's supporters don't count and should not be heard.

I wonder what the odds are that Hillary's schysters are going to do the same in the rest of the states as they have done since Iowa.

That's not how you change minds.

Sure you're not working for the other side with this ham-handed approach?

I agree, he would be good there. But I support him staying in the Senate to finish his term and then retire to mentoring new progressive leadership.

He is only 74, not too old for a senator.

I have this secret fantasy that Bernie will start a mentoring program/institute/school for young progressives interested in future leadership. Foster them in running in local and state elections. Build a cadre of young smart sharp men and women to flood 'down ticket' races. Get them ready for 2020 and 2024 to move into House and Senate races. But if he wants to stay in the Senate, I am certainly in favor. The rest of us need to do the fostering and mentoring and nurturing of young candidates.

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

She's crediting the Reagans for doing exactly what they did not do. She credits them for doing what others did. Reagan is infamous for aggressively refusing to talk about AIDS or even say the word for over 7 years as over 30,000 Americans died.

So you defend that ignorant, hateful bullshit storm but claim Bernie is disqualified by 'comments'? Puh-lease.

Hillary praising Dutch was the worst comment by any Democratic candidate in my lifetime. And her DU supporters had absolutely no criticism of her for it.
Double Standards and Hypocrisy are the building blocks Straights use to construct their world of discrimination and bias.

Come on, you know the denouement of that story. Why are you playing the obtuse game?

which is undeniable, especially when one looks at her record, try as she and supporters might.

when you consider most Is and most Berners probably won't vote for her. Her unfavorability ratng is off the chart with Is, and Berners want real change .. which she ain't bringing ... and are willing to protest vote or stay home if she is the nominee.

and you want everyone to be as angry as you are.

The fact of the matter is this--the Bernie - supporting DEMOCRATS will pivot and vote for Clinton. The people who normally voted Green or stayed home will do what they always did.

If "Berners" are as you describe, they're not part of the solution, and really, they're not part of the problem, either--they just don't care and won't count.

They can proudly stand on the sidelines and watch the first female POTUS get sworn in come January.

#1) I'm not angry. I'm just not willing to support Hillary given my assessment of her as someone who I would or would not like to see as President. I just can't support her, unlike every other Democratic nominee throughout my 44 years of voting eligibility. The frosting on the cake is that, for me, Bernie is head and shoulders above her. So I have a terrifically good choice during the primaries at least.

#2) You don't know that Berners will pivot. In fact, I'd be surprised if as many as 40% of Bernie voters in the Dem primaries actually vote for Hillary. I have 3 millennial kids -- they all say they and their friends will all either write in Bernie or not vote if Hillary is the GE. Haven'y heard a single one say they will vote for Jill Stein.

#3) Berners ARE the solution. That's what Hillary supporters don't get. Breaking down the current money controlled electoral and governance system is only going to happen via political or violent revolution. Do you really think 535 Congressionals are going to willingly give up the gravy train based on conscience? If so, you are fooling yourself.

who's "whistling past the graveyard" here.

1. Stand aside. If you can't vote for the nominee, your input just doesn't matter.

2. DEMOCRATS will pivot. "Berners" might not, but they are a very vocal and noxious online presence, they enjoy "gatherings" like rallies and caucuses, but they don't tend to actually vote in numbers sufficient to offer victory--that whole "stand in line" kind of solitary exercise.

As we've seen.

3. "Berners" are not the solution--they're the ones who make ugly sexist references (Lewinsky, whore, etc.) and then are surprised when people recoil in utter disgust at what they're doing. And when their leader runs away from condemning them, and plays dumb when challenged? Well, that doesn't make him look good, either.

well ya know. AND I absolutely do not believe that Bernie would want a position in her cabinet if she won. But Bernie is going all the way....to the convention!

The race between Obama and Clinton was substantially closer and she wasn't the VP nominee.

...maybe in the Vermont delegation.

:chuckling:

Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2016, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

someone like Black if they really intend for justice to prevail.


Eric Holder was a Wall Street lawyer who was obviously extremely soft on Wall Street crime. Holder is now back representing the banks he failed to prosecute.

William K Black exposed the Saving and Loan scandal and helped Iceland prosecute it's corrupt bankers. That's seems like someone who is on top of bank crime and gets things done.

Sanders supporters want to see real action in this area. Hopefully Hillary would want to show she's serious about bank crimes and make it known who she intends to be our top law enforcement officer is.

Even Republican voters would respect someone who was actually going to appoint someone who is going to reign in corruption on Wall Street.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-thing-new-york-voters-agree-on-they-dont-trust-wall-street-2016-04-19?rss=1

What should we expect from Hillary in this area?

counsel of Goldman Sachs, a man very likely to be at the top of her AG list. No way in hell is she going to nominate anyone who would remotely consider prosecuting her corporate criminal pals.

That's really a reasonable idea (not). In reality, Sanders and his most angry supporters have a lot less power than they actually believe that they do.

If she wins the nomination, why should she turn it over to Sanders? That's not how things work.

no nominee in our history has emerged from the Convention under such conditions. Or inflicted such on the masses of voters.

First off, on no planet does the loser get to demand to be the nominee. Second, she is not going to be indicted, so that fantasy is just that a fantasy.

I can't believe that anyone would be crazy enough to demand that the winner concede to the loser. What kind of craziness is that?

Also, if Sanders was the nominee and lost the general, what would the recourse be? A coup or something? I'm just asking.

eating at you?

And if he loses the general, shouldn't he take some sort of revolutionary action to claim his rightful place as President? I'm just trying to get your logic clear.

Apparently you don't have an answer, so never mind.

It isn't rocket science. But it is political science.

I've researched this issue and read a great deal. I certainly don't know everything. However, I am very curious about you saying that "she is not going to be indicted."

On what are you basing that opinion?

I trust actual legal experts over some internet sleuth. Thanks and to the ignore list with you.

All of these "experts" have given their opinion, based on very limited information. They have NO IDEA what is going on inside the FBI investigation.

These experts are also employed by ABC, NBC and other media--who are clearly Clinton friendly.

There are plenty of experts who also suggest that she clearly violated the law.

No cabinet-level member of government has ever built a server in their basement and transmitted classified and Top Secret information through an unsecure server. It's never, ever been done.

Any expert who says that this is much ado about nothing, doesn't know what they're talking about.

Many, many experts who know about security clearances and handling classified information have been aghast at Clinton's actions.

I'm sure I'll be on your ignore list. Like I care? You can't even tolerate that people are discussing and exploring this important issue. The frontrunner of our party is under investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department--and you put on ignore--anyone who dares to remain silent.

Comical.

is probably a smart pick, but will piss of the Street. Elizabeth Warren for Treasury would be my pick.

She's far, far more effective there than she woudl be as a marginalized member of an Administration she has fundamental differences with.

..... Do you think that Bernie will see any office or post as anything but insulting?

have to keep on as the cheerleader of the
movement, and he cannot do that under
a Clinton presidency, if he accepts a cabinet
position.

loses maybe she will..bull shit.

that her email-server investigation could possibly impact our primary. There are so many unknowns regarding the investigation and the timetable. However, it is clear that what she did--with her unsecure, homebrew server--was unprecedented and that she did send classified (and also Top Secret) information via this server. This was her only means of email communication throughout her SOS tenure. She did not have a .gov address.

It is clear that what she did obviated FOIA laws. All of her SOS communications were done via this server. So of course, sensitive information was passed through this vulnerable channel.

This is truly the largest issue of our primary. However, we don't talk about it. That's due, in part, to the fact that very little information is being released because of the ongoing investigation.

However, we do know that the investigation is completed, except for interviews with her aids and with Clinton herself.

just as she has stolen many of these primaries. I have no faith in our election process any longer because of the ongoing epidemic of voter supression, disenfranchisement, exit-poll discrepancies, caucus cheating, manipulation of the number of polling places, votes switching, people being locked out of the process, and on and on and on.

That's what some don't get. It's not 2008 when the choice was between to corporocrats with a paper slice of difference between them. This one is a battle for heart and soul. Unity is a fair weather notion.

Genius plan.

Or is it millions? Doesn't matter apparently. They don't need us. Small tents are teh awesome! 50% of 30% is good enough. Math! lol

does not get YUGE power and official duties. Second place does not get to dictate to the winner, terms and conditions.

That is the worst thing he could do. No position of power and he would essentially be there to give Clinton cover and keep this wing of the party quiet during her tenor.

VP is ceremonial. Any progressive who takes I hope does it to pad their resume for future run.

The time for compromising our principles is over.

And there are a lot of better candidates out there then Sanders.

He's fine just where he is.

I hope the unity will be with progressives as they stick together to continue what Bernie started and look for principled leaders....like Elizabeth Warren.

not with all the spots she is going to have to hand out to all the sell-out MSM talking heads that did her bidding this primary cycle.

On the bright side, there should lot of new blood at all the 'liberal' cable news stations, maybe one of them will actually be a real progressive with integrity this time?

"corporate whore?" Yes, I know the other guy said it. But I'm not convinced he disagrees.

of what she is asking us to do. The rest of my views are posted upthread. She will not emerge from Convention as the nominee.

If she's indicted that's one thing. But if she's not, she's the nominee. If something does happen, the Democratic Party would go to the next person up, Biden. They're not going to risk it with a guy that has the history Bernie has.

Clinton would make sure the spit in the pitcher wasn't even warm.

I would rather see him retire with grace and dignity if it comes down to that. Then he can continue to say he never sold out his values for power. Not many in DC can say that.

The constant condescension is beyond absurd. Who the hell do some of you think you are to constantly be haranguing Hillary's supporters with that attitude of superiority????

If Sanders wants to remain relevant he will campaign for Hillary and call for unity by asking his supporters to vote for her, just as she campaigned for Obama in 2008. If his sensibilities do not permit it, then he can go back to the Senate and stay out of the way.

s really, really overestimating her appeal. I am completely turned off by her. I have no qualms saying so during a primary. That's what we are supposed to do during a primary. You own enthusiasm alone is not enough. If she is the nominee I wish you the best, but I just can't get there from here. Not at this time. She has said and done nothing that has even moved the needle. I remain unconvinced. She is not sincere. She hasn't earned my vote. And as a Union member, household, and family, I can say I am not the only one. I also can say that right now another candidate who I can't mention without ridicule is killing it with promises to bring the jobs back. Why is she so far behind the curve? Where is her pitch to me? I haven't heard it or seen it. I have asked for it. I have asked Hillary people to point me to it. Nothing. If it is gong to be a big reveal at the convention, well that tells me that's all the longer she could support me- the three months she needed me. And that's not cool. THat's just revealing.

But understand that you have made your opinion with respect to the general election irrelevant.

We are all moving forward to the general election. You are not moving forward with us. That's your prerogative, but that means you're out of it.

Apparently, my irony meter goes to 11...

I don't see Clinton as 'desperate' and I don't see her as 'lacking credibility', either. Seeing as how she has more votes than Sanders, I'm betting the electorate doesn't think that, either.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

Bernie brings nothing to the table. His state is not important. Also by his behavior and criticism and of Hillary Clinton, he would be a bad choice. His campaign was against Democrats. Many of us can not tolerate him anymore.

The same reasons that make him a bad GE candidate make him a bad VP choice...They will paint him as the second coming of Stalin. And there is plenty of dirt which the rethugs are holding back.

And, since she lies so often and so easily, why would anyone really believe she was going to make any concessions away from her Third Way MIC neocon agenda? I don't think she would even be able to keep a straight face.

I think that, for many of us, the Democratic party has oozed too far to the right, on a bed of money, and I don't believe all those people newly energized and introduced to the political theater will be jumping on the Hillary bandwagon.

And that is on Hillary and the DNC, no one else. I am certainly not carrying her water, tainted, really, with blood and money. Nope.

than what's good for the rest of the country. Got it.

Sad that you're apparently ok with a President Trump (or whoever). We can only dream of having such privilege.

starting the day the veep candidate accepts, the first and most constant job is to squelch your own views and parrot the lines of the top of the ticket.

i don't see sanders signing up for that.

Clinton is a disaster for Democratic values and I think we should do our damnedest to have no association with her campaign or administration.

I don't even like the idea of Bernie endorsing her. I think he should withhold it to make clear how unfit she is.

The revolution lives on in our ability to take the party out from under Clinton and force her to do the LBJ shuffle off the stage in 4 years.

eom

This one really is the best of the bunch. Failing to actually win the primaries, the Sandersites are now demanding that Clinton cede the nomination to Sanders anyway, just because!

I love it.

This is high comedy!

It would be sad if it weren't so funny (and stupid)

Do you mean Bernie as VP? Aside from the facts that she would be extremely unlikely to offer it to him, and he'd be even more unlikely to accept, they are much too far apart on all issues to work well together.

Maybe she'd consider offering it to him so as to win over all the many Bernie supporters. And the consideration that it would totally keep him from pushing his genuinely progressive ideas. I would actually lose a lot of respect for him if he accepted the VP slot.

I agree with you, and I actually am not advocating for a Unity ticket.

Cruz helps put him over the top in the South, and Trump takes the North.