2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Many Americans sense that there is a Nixonian quality to Hillary Clinton"
Is Hillary Clinton Honest? (A Response to Kristof)
Hillary Clintons defenders object to the widespread public view that she is a liar by noting she scores reasonably well on the accuracy of her policy statements, but that is missing the point
by Robert Parry
April 24, 2016
Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Neck Deep: The Disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush, was written with two of his sons, Sam and Nat. His two previous books are Secrecy & Privilege: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq and Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth'.
A Nixonian Quality
Many Americans sense that there is a Nixonian quality to Hillary Clinton her excessive secrecy, her defensiveness, her rigidity, her unwillingness to acknowledge or learn from mistakes. Even when she is forced into admitting a mistake, such as her violation of State Department rules when she maintained a private email server for official correspondence, she acts as if shes just apologizing to close off further debate or examination. As with Richard Nixon, theres a feeling that Clintons apologies and rationales are self-serving, not forthcoming.
Yet, while its true that Nixon was a deceitful character his most famous lie being when he declared I am not a crook I would argue that he had some clear advantages over Clinton as President. He was a much more strategic thinker than she is and sometimes went against the grain of expectations as encapsulated in the phrase Nixon goes to China, meaning that Nixon could open up to communist China precisely because he was viewed as such a hardliner who would never do such a thing but who finally judged that the move was in Americas interests.
While its impossible to say whether Clinton would seize unexpected openings as President, she showed none of that creativity, subtlety and courage as Secretary of State. She marched down a straightforward neocon line, doing precisely what Israels Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wanted in the Middle East.
Clinton tried to sabotage President Barack Obamas diplomatic outreach to Iran and favored military solutions to Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. She also followed a rightist approach in backing the 2009 coup in Honduras that ousted an elected progressive president who had offended some of the Honduran oligarchs and outside corporate interests.
So, when one considers Hillary Clintons honesty more should be in play than simply whether she accurately describes her policy positions half the time. Honesty, as most people would perceive it, relates to a persons fundamental integrity, strength of character, readiness to acknowledge mistakes and ability to learn from them. On that measure, the American people seem to have sized up Hillary Clinton pretty well.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/04/24/hillary-clinton-honest-response-kristof
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)which went on to become the Nixon Campaign and the Nixon White House.
yourout
(7,531 posts)1. Iraq vote
2. EMail server
3. Huge wall street speaking fees while planning to run for POTUS
4. Pushing for Libya overthrow
5. Having the Clinton Foundation run like the local mob racket even if it is legal
6. Palling around with Blumenthal and passing him classified information.
I would not trust her to run the local sanitation provider let alone the country.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)has received better advise to the contrary from experts. That's not bad judgement. It's recklessness - not a good trait for a Commander in Chief.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Dunning-Kruger Effect
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DunningKruger_effect
tularetom
(23,664 posts)There's just something so bogus, so forced and artificial about her, like she doesn't really have any core beliefs.
The mystery is that so many Americans are unable to spot it. Sure, most of us think she's a liar, but there are still millions who haven't yet caught on.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)... millions who haven't yet caught on
I often have either the TV or radio on as background, and whenever she is featured, even in a snippet, I have to get up, hit the mute button or change the channel. Everything about her, including her voice, screams fraud. And research on what she's done, what she stands for (actually nothing aside from personal ambition) confirm this reaction.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)They place a greater premium on telling the truth than on sucking up to people with power or influence.
Following in the footsteps of George Seldes.
And yet, I think it may be even harder to tell the truth now than it was in Seldes' time.
Thank you, Robert Parry.
And thank you, too, imagine2015, for posting!
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Zorro
(15,745 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)http://nieman.harvard.edu/events/robert-parry-receives-i-f-stone-medal-for-journalistic-independence/
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts).
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)he's an inspiration to me, as was Seldes.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Zorro
(15,745 posts)shows just how shameless her critics are.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)shows just how in denial and blinded by cult-of-personality her supporters are.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Zorro
(15,745 posts)No surprise he's attacking the eventual Democratic Party nominee with such shamelessness, and getting high-fives from the crowd that most likely wasn't around during the Nixon era.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and when that happens, some people cry "cult of personality."
but those who are already reading beyond the party's script, really don't give a hoot. it's the lies and obfuscations that need to be exposed. Parry never said Putin is a good guy -- he's just saying that the narrative spun around Ukraine doesn't add up.
I'd rather take the possibility that we're being lied into another war, very seriously, before dismissing those who dare lift the curtain for you.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)awful she is
MisterP
(23,730 posts)so he could drag the talks on and win the election, but Clinton's cracked that particular glass murder-ceiling a while back
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)CLINTON/NIXON
http://www.americancrossroads.org/
and video link: http://www.americancrossroads.org/#
Coincidence?
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Rovian propaganda has an element of truth. Our fault, not his, for allowing the Koch-funded DLC and Third Way to take control over the last three decades. She lies much more casually than Nixon ever did.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Speaks volumes.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts).
Trigger warning: Language
.
Uncle Joe
(58,376 posts)Thanks for the thread, imagine.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)I read a good article yesterday in Vanity Fair and it seems she wanted to be
POTUS in 2000! But with the intern scandal it wasn't happening. And how many
scandals have there been now? She'll never give up. Let's hope she keeps
losing because wherever she goes, all hell breaks loose.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)What a fucking joke he's become.
Sid
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I've been watching them for 25 years and they've both had plenty to apologize for. Bill Clinton couldn't offer a sincere apology to the American public or to his cabinet members he sent out to lie for him after the Monica Lewinsky disgrace. Hillary can't offer an apology over her use of the racist term "super predator" or her Iraq War vote or for anything else. Neither of them is capable of believing they've ever been wrong, and even if they were they are not about to humiliate themselves by apologizing to their inferiors, i.e. everybody else.
Nixon, scumbag crook that he was, had more redeeming qualities than Hillary Clinton and was to the left of her on domestic issues. Nixon was about power and his legacy. He wasn't a petty grifter primarily concerned with stuffing his pockets like the Clintons are.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)He wrote about it in 2008:
ROBERT PARRY: Right. One of the most troubling things to me about the first Clinton administration was that in late 92 and early 93, after the election and after Bill Clinton won, he had a real opportunity to do many things. First, there were a number of investigations that were still underway. The Iran-Contra investigation was still alive. Special Prosecutor Lawrence Walsh was beginning to actually open up new areas of his investigation, including going after a possible obstruction of justice by then-President Bush. There was also the Iraqgate investigation was being pursued, that was the arming helping to arm Saddam Hussein in the 1980s. And there were other ones, like the October Surprise investigation, of whether some of those contacts between the Republicans and the Iranians went back to 1980 in the campaign then, and also the Passportgate investigation, which was a dirty trick that the Bush administration had tried to pull by searching through Bill Clintons passport file to find dirt that they could use against him. So all those investigations were going.
Plus, Bill Clinton had the opportunity, because he was the first president elected after the end of the Cold War, he had a real chance to do a serious historical review, a truth commission, if you will. He essentially threw all those things aside, as did other Democrats in Washington. They were looking, as they said, to the future, not to the past. They didnt really want to get into these kind of, what they thought, refighting the old battles of the 80s. And essentially they swept much of this very important history and these very serious issues of wrongdoing by the Reagan-Bush administrations under the rug.
And the results of that, while they may have thought it was very clever at the time, the result was to essentially establish Reagans legacy in a very positive light, to establish George H.W. Bushs legacy quite well, and that opened the door left open the door for the restoration of the Bush dynasty in 2000. So what Bill was doing in terms of his efforts to play politics, if you will, with this information, and even if he had a good intention of trying to use that to increase chances of passing domestic legislation, what he really ended up doing was giving the American people a false history of that era and enabling the Republicans to reorganize and to come back with based on what essentially were false narratives of that period.
SOURCE: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/2/robert_parry_hillary_clinton_signals_free
Part of an interview with Amy Goodman.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Clintonites believe in Reagan's fantasy propaganda of "trickle down" economics (the rich get richer; the poor can jump off a cliff). Thus they exonerate the Reagan's and Bush's of this world for their war crimes. I saw it back then, during the Iran-Contra hearings, run by Democrats, who failed to impeach Reagan for his clearly illegal, covert war on Nicaragua. And we have seen it again in President Obama's infamous statement, "We need to look forward not backward" on the horrendous war crimes, treason and massive thievery of the Bush junta.
If your donors in the corporate, bankster and war profiteer industries are making money hand over fist, and are giving some of it to you, you ignore the war crimes of those who enhance those profits.
And if you are a Clinton supporter now, you are endorsing those wretched and corrupt behaviors, whether you are aware of it or not.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Take PNAC, please.
Flashback: What Neocons Told Us about Iraq
Dick Cheney
"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." June 20, 2005 (Source)
"I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months." March 16, 2003 (Source)
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us. (Source)
"If we had to do it over again we would do exactly the same thing. September 13, 2006 (Source)
What we did in Iraq was exactly the right thing to do. If I had it to recommend all over again, I would recommend exactly the same course of action. October 5, 2004 (Source)
Bill Kristol
Very few wars in American history were prepared better or more thoroughly than this one by this president. July 15, 2007 (Source)
"This is going to be a two month war, not an eight year war." March 28, 2003 (Source)
"There has been a certain amount of pop sociology... that the Shi'a can't get along with the Sunni... there's almost no evidence of that at all. April 4, 2003 (Fox News w/ Bill OReilly)
"The first two battles of this new era are now over. The battles of Afghanistan and Iraq have been won decisively and honorably. April 28, 2003 (Source)
there are hopeful signs that Iraqis of differing religious, ethnic, and political persuasions can work together. This is a far cry from the predictions made before the war by many, both here and in Europe, that a liberated Iraq would fracture into feuding clans and unleash a bloodbath. March 22, 2004 (Source)
the continuing debates over the terms of a final constitution, have in fact demonstrated something remarkable in Iraq: a willingness on the part of the diverse ethnic and religious groups to disagree--peacefully--and then to compromise. March 22, 2004 (Source)
Paul Wolfowitz
There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon. March 27, 2003 (Source)
On weapons of mass destruction: There's no question in my mind that there was something there. There are just too many pieces of evidence and we'll get to the bottom of it. August 1, 2003 (Source)
Some of the higher-end predictions that we have been hearing recently, such as the notion that it will take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to provide stability in post-Saddam (Hussein) Iraq, are wildly off the mark. February 27, 2003 (Source)
"It's hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would take to conduct the war itself and to secure the surrender of Saddams security forces and his army. Hard to imagine." Feb. 27, 2003 (Source)
"Peacekeeping requirements in Iraq might be much lower than historical experience in the Balkans suggests. There's been none of the record in Iraq of ethnic militias fighting one another that produced so much bloodshed and permanent scars in Bosnia along with the requirement for large policing forces to separate those militias. Feb. 27, 2003 (Source)
These are Arabs, 23 million of the most educated people in the Arab world, who are going to welcome us as liberators. Feb. 27, 2003 (Source)
"The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator. March 11, 2003 (Source)
"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction, as the core reason." May 28, 2003
SOURCE: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/flashback-republicans-iraq-cheney-wolfowitz-kristol
Others, also, have noticed: Bernie Sanders has INTEGRITY.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/give-em-hell-bernie-20150429?page=2
Please compare with the bi-partisan PNAC crypto-fascist corporate interests bent on fracking Ukraine and making money off war four ways to Super Tuesday:
What about apologizing to Ukraine, Mrs. Nuland?
Fri, Feb 7, 2014
By ORIENTAL REVIEW
What about apologizing to Ukraine, Mrs. Nuland?
Yesterdays leak of the flagrant telephone talk between the US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey R. Pyatt has already hit the international media headlines. In short, it turned out that the US officials were coordinating their actions on how to install a puppet government in Ukraine. They agreed to nominate Batkyvshchina Party leader Arseniy Yatseniuk as Deputy Prime Minister, to bench Udar Party leader Vitaly Klitschko from the game for a while and to discredit neo-Nazi Svoboda party chief Oleh Tiahnybok as Yanukovychs project. Then Mrs. Nuland informed the US Ambassador that the UN Secretary General, Under-Secretary for Political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman had already instructed Ban Ki-moon to send his special envoy to Kyiv this week to glue things together. Referring to the European role in managing Ukraines political crisis, she was matchlessly elegant: Fuck the EU.
In a short while, after nervious attempts to blame Russians in fabricating (!) the tape (State Department: this is a new low in Russian tradecraft), Mrs. Nuland made her apologies to the EU officials. Does it mean that the Washingtons repeatedly leaked genuine attitude towards the strategic Transatlantic partnership is more worthy of an apology than the direct and clear interference into the internal affairs of a sovereign state and violation of the US-Russia-UK agreement (1994 Budapest memorandum) on security assurances for Ukraine? Meanwhile this document inter alia reads as follows:
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
Back to the latest Mrs. Nulands diplomatic collapse which was made public, it was unlikely an unfortunate misspelling. Andrey Akulov from Strategic Culture Foundation has published a brilliant report (Bride at every wedding, Part I and Part II) a couple of days ago describing Mrs.Nulands blatant lack of professionalism and personal integrity. He described in details her involvement in misinforming the US President and nation on the circumstances of the assasination of the US Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens in Benghazi in September 2012 and her support of the unlawful US funding of a number of the Russian independent NGOs seeking to bring a color revolution to Russia.
CONTINUED w/LINKS...
http://orientalreview.org/2014/02/07/what-about-apologizing-to-ukraine-mrs-nuland/
If you've time, there's great video at the link, too.
Neocons and Liberals Together, Again
The neoconservative Project for the New American Century (PNAC) has signaled its intention to continue shaping the government's national security...
Tom Barry, last updated: February 02, 2005
The neoconservative Project for the New American Century (PNAC) has signaled its intention to continue shaping the government's national security strategy with a new public letter stating that the "U.S. military is too small for the responsibilities we are asking it to assume." Rather than reining in the imperial scope of U.S. national security strategy as set forth by the first Bush administration, PNAC and the letter's signatories call for increasing the size of America's global fighting machine.
SNIP...
Liberal Hawks Fly with the Neocons
The recent PNAC letter to Congress was not the first time that PNAC or its associated front groups, such as the Coalition for the Liberation of Iraq, have included hawkish Democrats.
Two PNAC letters in March 2003 played to those Democrats who believed that the invasion was justified at least as much by humanitarian concerns as it was by the purported presence of weapons of mass destruction. PNAC and the neocon camp had managed to translate their military agenda of preemptive and preventive strikes into national security policy. With the invasion underway, they sought to preempt those hardliners and military officials who opted for a quick exit strategy in Iraq. In their March 19th letter, PNAC stated that Washington should plan to stay in Iraq for the long haul: "Everyone-those who have joined the coalition, those who have stood aside, those who opposed military action, and, most of all, the Iraqi people and their neighbors-must understand that we are committed to the rebuilding of Iraq and will provide the necessary resources and will remain for as long as it takes."
Along with such neocon stalwarts as Robert Kagan, Bruce Jackson, Joshua Muravchik, James Woolsey, and Eliot Cohen, a half-dozen Democrats were among the 23 individuals who signed PNAC's first letter on post-war Iraq. Among the Democrats were Ivo Daalder of the Brookings Institution and a member of Clinton's National Security Council staff; Martin Indyk, Clinton's ambassador to Israel; Will Marshall of the Progressive Policy Institute and Democratic Leadership Council; Dennis Ross, Clinton's top adviser on the Israel-Palestinian negotiations; and James Steinberg, Clinton's deputy national security adviser and head of foreign policy studies at Brookings. A second post-Iraq war letter by PNAC on March 28 called for broader international support for reconstruction, including the involvement of NATO, and brought together the same Democrats with the prominent addition of another Brookings' foreign policy scholar, Michael O'Hanlon.
CONTINUED...
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/articles/display/Neocons_and_Liberals_Together_Again
That's from Rightweb. They're full of facts, for those who take the time to read and learn. One name to pay attention to is Victoria Nuland, our woman in Ukraine, who is married to PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan. Robert Kagan's brother is Frederick Kagan. Frederick Kagan's spouse is Kimberly Kagan.
Brilliant people, big ideas, etc. The thing is, that's a lot of PNAC and the PNAC approach to international relations means more wars without end for profits without cease, among other things detrimental to democracy, peace and justice.
Bernie has none of that.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Will you ask Hillary to investigate and prosecute Bush, Cheney, the banksters and all the people Obama and Holder forgave?
I ask as a Democrat who wants to live in a land where all people are equal under law, not just the superrich.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Then again...I hope you keep them coming after she's nominated.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)It's ok. We understand. Blinders are big sellers these days in camp weathervane
trumad
(41,692 posts)tick tock
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Literally.
Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...