2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat's the difference between horribly violent, deeply sick, sociopath...
who needs to be put behind bars in order to protect society from them and a super predator who needs to be brought to heel?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/8/1410122/-Senator-Sanders-remarks-on-1994-Crime-Bill
I don't get it. Do you not think that Bernie and Hillary were talking about the same sort of people?
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)INDICTMENT FAIRY!
No wait. . . .wrong thread. Sorry.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)That never gets old.
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Clinton argued that there were superpredators who terrorized inner-city economically-depressed minority communities and who needed to be removed for those communities to flourish. There is an implication of race and economic status contained within that argument.
Sanders merely argued that there are people who need to be kept behind bars to protect society because they were not redeemable. There is no implication of race or economic status contained within.
The problem with Clinton's statement and the difference from Sanders statement is between being a classist racist and recognizing bad people exist. It's the difference between incarcerating the guy selling rocks on the corner for life on his third conviction and incarcerating John Wayne Gacy for life after his first.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)And how do you know that?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)and Clinton by her own words clearly was.
That's the difference. Their respective statements out Clinton as a racist classist and don't out Sanders as such.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)several times. Until it passed.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)someone else. Bernie was using his own words.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Mr. Speaker, how do we talk about the very serious crime problem in America without mentioning that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, by far, with 22 percent of our children in poverty and 5 million who are hungry today? Do the Members think maybe that might have some relationship to crime? How do we talk about crime when this Congress is prepared, this year, to spend 11 times more for the military than for education; when 21 percent of our kids drop out of high school; when a recent study told us that twice as many young workers now earn poverty wages as 10 years ago; when the gap between the rich and the poor is wider, and when the rate of poverty continues to grow? Do the members think that might have some relationship to crime?
Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them. But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.
He was speaking of the same people, clearly.
But with a lot more time on the Floor of the House than Hillary was supposed to (by those standards of the times) merely as First Lady, gave a far better explanation for why he felt it was happening, and one I strongly suspect the same Hillary who worked to get kids out of adult prisons agrees with.
insta8er
(960 posts)2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white students that had no idea how the world worked. We had to tout Hillary's great record with "the blacks" (yes, that's the actual way it was phrased), and generally use racial identity politics to attack Sanders and bolster Hillary as the only unifying figure.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3rncq9/confession_of_hillary_shill_from/
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)with AND without assault weapon provisions
.
And NOT voting for the crime bill at all?
LexVegas
(6,073 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators. No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel."
See they used to be just gangs of kids, but not anymore now they the kinds of kids called superpredators....kids.
vintx
(1,748 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-29/local/me-14160_1_los-angeles-county
http://www.murdervictims.com/voices/jeneliz.html
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-02/news/mn-45403_1_texas-death-row
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/22/nyregion/20-members-of-hispanic-gang-indicted-in-multiple-killings.html
and on and on and on it went.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)was about incarcerating fewer people, noting that there are some exceptions for psychologically sick and violent people who can't be reclaimed. He wasn't calling groups of kids, superpredators, with the kind of coded panache that only a conservative could love.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)However, we know, only Bernie gets the benefit of rationalizing his actions. If one reads Hillary's statement about the Iraq war, the same kind of leeway could be applied to it. It wasn't something she did without reservations and she said so.
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)but not a lot of room at the top.
beedle
(1,235 posts)But I guess that would be too much to ask of a Clinton supporter.
The same paragraph
But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.
That's what he thought of that particular pat of the bill, the same part that Hillary was touting using racist dog whistle words.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)he is still referring to the same class of people, in pretty much the same terms, and accepting the same prescription for them.
beedle
(1,235 posts)I guess I have nothing more to say other than you're amazingly tone deaf.
Response to beedle (Reply #26)
Post removed
beedle
(1,235 posts)Hilary's comments on the bill completely lacked any sense of charity, while Sander's comments were full of charity.
One of them says 'jail the bastards and throw away the key', the other says 'if we lock them up and throw away the keys we are not only giving up on the people we lock up, but also on their families" ... which one sounds more 'charitable' to you?
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)You had entire neighborhoods practically held hostage by gang turf wars where shootings were common place. Gang leaders are predators, because they often issue death threats against young kids who won't join the gang. There are a lot of things that people do not know about gangs. These are not social clubs that Hillary Clinton was preying on because she's a racist, these are very dangerous groups of people.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)so keep it to yourself.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)I think I'm a better judge of what I need than you are.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And the other is talking about criminals in general
That's the difference