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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:17 PM Apr 2016

What's the difference between horribly violent, deeply sick, sociopath...

who needs to be put behind bars in order to protect society from them and a super predator who needs to be brought to heel?

Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/8/1410122/-Senator-Sanders-remarks-on-1994-Crime-Bill


I don't get it. Do you not think that Bernie and Hillary were talking about the same sort of people?

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What's the difference between horribly violent, deeply sick, sociopath... (Original Post) kennetha Apr 2016 OP
Well, it's different because you know . . . Maru Kitteh Apr 2016 #1
LMAO!!!!!!! nolawarlock Apr 2016 #29
I know it makes me laugh every time. Maru Kitteh Apr 2016 #30
Disingenuous. They're clearly not talking about the same people. Chan790 Apr 2016 #2
Hmm. So Bernie was talking about rural white guys. IS that what you're saying? kennetha Apr 2016 #3
No. I'm saying he wasn't talking about people of any race or economic status specifically... Chan790 Apr 2016 #5
LOL! Of course he was. Just look at the Crime Bill HE VOTED FOR... KittyWampus Apr 2016 #7
Neither did Hillary make any reference to race or economic status..and she was quoting Jitter65 Apr 2016 #11
Really? Did you read his full quote? moriah Apr 2016 #15
2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white student insta8er Apr 2016 #12
Wrong. And Sanders voted FOR the crime bill, several times…. until it passed KittyWampus Apr 2016 #6
What's the difference between voting FOR the crime bill KittyWampus Apr 2016 #4
This is why most minorities see right through Bernies bullshit. nt LexVegas Apr 2016 #8
The man who invented the term superpredator said he was wrong? Fumesucker Apr 2016 #9
Hillary said she was talking about kids. That's a difference you leave out. Her own words: Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #10
This ^ vintx Apr 2016 #14
yeah, kids who were doing the damnedest things. kennetha Apr 2016 #17
The bulk of his speech My Good Babushka Apr 2016 #13
Not good enough. Same rationalization could apply to Hillary's statement. Jitter65 Apr 2016 #19
This is a guy who deserved to rise to the top before he retired... speaktruthtopower Apr 2016 #16
You could have posted what he said in some context beedle Apr 2016 #18
doesn't change anything. kennetha Apr 2016 #20
If that's what you really believe then beedle Apr 2016 #26
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #27
That's because beedle Apr 2016 #28
Gangs were a menace then KingFlorez Apr 2016 #21
If you can't tell the difference, I pity you. nt Live and Learn Apr 2016 #22
I don't really need your pity. kennetha Apr 2016 #23
No, you really do need it. nt Live and Learn Apr 2016 #24
nah! kennetha Apr 2016 #25
One is talking about AA gang members AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #31

Maru Kitteh

(28,341 posts)
1. Well, it's different because you know . . .
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:25 PM
Apr 2016
?width=450

INDICTMENT FAIRY!

No wait. . . .wrong thread. Sorry.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
2. Disingenuous. They're clearly not talking about the same people.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:28 PM
Apr 2016

Clinton argued that there were superpredators who terrorized inner-city economically-depressed minority communities and who needed to be removed for those communities to flourish. There is an implication of race and economic status contained within that argument.

Sanders merely argued that there are people who need to be kept behind bars to protect society because they were not redeemable. There is no implication of race or economic status contained within.

The problem with Clinton's statement and the difference from Sanders statement is between being a classist racist and recognizing bad people exist. It's the difference between incarcerating the guy selling rocks on the corner for life on his third conviction and incarcerating John Wayne Gacy for life after his first.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
3. Hmm. So Bernie was talking about rural white guys. IS that what you're saying?
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:31 PM
Apr 2016

And how do you know that?

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
5. No. I'm saying he wasn't talking about people of any race or economic status specifically...
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:34 PM
Apr 2016

and Clinton by her own words clearly was.

That's the difference. Their respective statements out Clinton as a racist classist and don't out Sanders as such.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
7. LOL! Of course he was. Just look at the Crime Bill HE VOTED FOR...
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:35 PM
Apr 2016

several times. Until it passed.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
11. Neither did Hillary make any reference to race or economic status..and she was quoting
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:41 PM
Apr 2016

someone else. Bernie was using his own words.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
15. Really? Did you read his full quote?
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:44 PM
Apr 2016
In a similar way, Mr. Speaker, a society which neglects, which oppresses and which disdains a very significant part of its population—which leaves them hungry, impoverished, unemployed, uneducated, and utterly without hope, will, through cause and effect, create a population which is bitter, which is angry, which is violent, and a society which is crime-ridden. This is the case in America, and it is the case in countries throughout the world.

Mr. Speaker, how do we talk about the very serious crime problem in America without mentioning that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, by far, with 22 percent of our children in poverty and 5 million who are hungry today? Do the Members think maybe that might have some relationship to crime? How do we talk about crime when this Congress is prepared, this year, to spend 11 times more for the military than for education; when 21 percent of our kids drop out of high school; when a recent study told us that twice as many young workers now earn poverty wages as 10 years ago; when the gap between the rich and the poor is wider, and when the rate of poverty continues to grow? Do the members think that might have some relationship to crime?

Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them. But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.


He was speaking of the same people, clearly.

But with a lot more time on the Floor of the House than Hillary was supposed to (by those standards of the times) merely as First Lady, gave a far better explanation for why he felt it was happening, and one I strongly suspect the same Hillary who worked to get kids out of adult prisons agrees with.
 

insta8er

(960 posts)
12. 2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white student
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:43 PM
Apr 2016

2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white students that had no idea how the world worked. We had to tout Hillary's great record with "the blacks" (yes, that's the actual way it was phrased), and generally use racial identity politics to attack Sanders and bolster Hillary as the only unifying figure.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3rncq9/confession_of_hillary_shill_from/

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
4. What's the difference between voting FOR the crime bill
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:33 PM
Apr 2016

with AND without assault weapon provisions….

And NOT voting for the crime bill at all?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
10. Hillary said she was talking about kids. That's a difference you leave out. Her own words:
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:38 PM
Apr 2016

"They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘superpredators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel."

See they used to be just gangs of kids, but not anymore now they the kinds of kids called superpredators....kids.

My Good Babushka

(2,710 posts)
13. The bulk of his speech
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:43 PM
Apr 2016

was about incarcerating fewer people, noting that there are some exceptions for psychologically sick and violent people who can't be reclaimed. He wasn't calling groups of kids, superpredators, with the kind of coded panache that only a conservative could love.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
19. Not good enough. Same rationalization could apply to Hillary's statement.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:51 PM
Apr 2016

However, we know, only Bernie gets the benefit of rationalizing his actions. If one reads Hillary's statement about the Iraq war, the same kind of leeway could be applied to it. It wasn't something she did without reservations and she said so.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
18. You could have posted what he said in some context
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:50 PM
Apr 2016

But I guess that would be too much to ask of a Clinton supporter.

The same paragraph

Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.

But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.


That's what he thought of that particular pat of the bill, the same part that Hillary was touting using racist dog whistle words.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
20. doesn't change anything.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:52 PM
Apr 2016

he is still referring to the same class of people, in pretty much the same terms, and accepting the same prescription for them.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
26. If that's what you really believe then
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:38 PM
Apr 2016

I guess I have nothing more to say other than you're amazingly tone deaf.

Response to beedle (Reply #26)

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
28. That's because
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 08:00 PM
Apr 2016

Hilary's comments on the bill completely lacked any sense of charity, while Sander's comments were full of charity.

One of them says 'jail the bastards and throw away the key', the other says 'if we lock them up and throw away the keys we are not only giving up on the people we lock up, but also on their families" ... which one sounds more 'charitable' to you?

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
21. Gangs were a menace then
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:01 PM
Apr 2016

You had entire neighborhoods practically held hostage by gang turf wars where shootings were common place. Gang leaders are predators, because they often issue death threats against young kids who won't join the gang. There are a lot of things that people do not know about gangs. These are not social clubs that Hillary Clinton was preying on because she's a racist, these are very dangerous groups of people.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
31. One is talking about AA gang members
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 09:17 PM
Apr 2016

And the other is talking about criminals in general

That's the difference

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