2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClock is ticking Bernie supporters
Those who are clear thinking democrats will know Hillary is our nominee and shift support. Those who have gone off the cliff... Meltdown this time tomorrow.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Are the only ones who will be overly upset. Reasonable people already know Hillary has always been a great candidate. Just as I would have been had Bernie won.
Rass
(112 posts)More policies to lock up minorities. More wars that need no justification. Let's send all of our jobs overseas. Who cares about universal health care or a free college system? Rah Rah Hillary!
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)see you in Philly
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Since last year Bernie made it clear who the best 2 candidates are. Except when he started losing
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Are there any issues or policies you want to move or is this just about Hillary?
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Now that the primary is basically complete
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)For me that is the difference, issues before celebrity.
I don't give anyone a blank check and I don't believe that you win just because the other guy loses -- in some games you BOTH lose.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)is over and Hillary is a good candidate
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)you are taking their votes away.
And you haven't named even one issue that you like Hillary on.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)The time for debating issues is over. That's been going on for months. This thing is mathematically over, so, to answer your question, California's votes don't matter except in the symbolic sense.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)real people want real things, not just numbers
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And the time for talking about issues is over?
A million dollars buys a lot of 'loyalty'.
artislife
(9,497 posts)for a handful of days, knowing the ropes and pretty pissy that half the board hasn't fallen into line.
You are a "real mirage".
Response to artislife (Reply #66)
Post removed
Unicorn
(424 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)They can vote.
It's not going to change the outcome.
Hillary has this.
But they can still vote.
Unicorn
(424 posts)The problem is that too many states had institutionalized problems preventing people from voting.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)is palpable.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Hillary supporters will keep reminding them that their party has chose the nominee, and she's a very good one.
insta8er
(960 posts)ones paying the bill does not register with them.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Oh, wait . . . you won't have to fight . . .
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)insta8er
(960 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts).
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts).
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)You wouldn't be posting this flamebait just to up your post count would you?
Because it is a good technique.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)What the hell are you talking about?
artislife
(9,497 posts)Please someone who has paid for this site, let me know if this one has a star. Because I have a theory.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)No
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)HRC won't have enough delegates to reach nomination without SDs BEFORE convention...
Who's going 'off the cliff' again?
convention should be VERY interesting, I'm looking forward to it, are you?
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Also looking forward to her victory speech as Obama did before the convention.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Hillary in the first vote.
Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)SalviaBlue
(2,917 posts)mimi85
(1,805 posts)I will make it count.
Rob H.
(5,352 posts)Isn't it awesome how some people think those of us who've not yet voted may as well not even bother?
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I'm a little late donating this week.
Gonna get right on that in a few!
Thanks for reminding me. Wha a pal!
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Which he basically has, mathematically. Don't waste the money!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)You should take a remedial math class.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)is noted and appreciated as it deserves.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Need him to stay in and get his message out.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.
Hillary Helps a Bankand Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons
The Wall Street Journals eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.
by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015
The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.
The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.
A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts, the newspaper reports. If the case proceeded, Switzerlands largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlementan unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.
Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank, they report. The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.
The article adds that there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clintons involvement in the case and the banks donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton. Maybe its all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasnt even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.
SNIP...
As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, Ten of the worlds biggest financial institutionsincluding UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachshave hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundationthe familys global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.
CONTINUED...
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
About UBS Wealth Management
It's Buy Partisan
After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?
It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:
President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool
SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html
One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.
Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.
The fact the nation's "news media" isn't really following this story should also be of great concern -- for the 99-percent. The one-percent don't like people knowing stuff like this so they hire propaganda artists specializing in disinformation and misinformation.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Crooks are crooks.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Money and power corrupt people. It's Buy Partisan.
This is from 2014:
Swiss-based international banking giant UBS welcomed deregulator extraordinaire Phil Gramm as Vice Chairman after his career in Washington. In other news that never seems to make it into Corporate McPravda, UBS was on the receiving end of $183 Billion in U.S. taxpayer bailout dollars. Small world.
UBS was one of eight large investment banks that benefited from the now-infamous backdoor bailout of AIGresulting in government cash infusions totaling $182.5 billionin the dark days of September 2008. At the hearing, the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, Neil Barofsky, revealed to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that UBS was the only bank willing to settle its soured credit default swaps (CDS) contracts for less than their face value. Why did UBS play ball when all the other banks didn't? As the Washington Independent reported, "Barofsky speculated that the firm probably simply recognized that the American taxpayers 'had taken the global economy on its back.'"
The financial crisis has proved time and again, big banks don't account for taxpayersexcept when they need their help. And that's the more likely explanation for UBS' good behavior during the AIG rescue. Like the rest of the global financial industry, UBS was hurting from the subprime mortgage meltdown. (The bank's colossally bad bet on the US housing marketit had already written down $38 billion in bad loans as of April 2008earned UBS the nickname Used to Be Smart.) But unlike its intransigent peers on Wall Street, the Swiss banking giant also faced the mounting threat of a US federal investigation. It was in no position to play hardball.
SOURCE:
http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2010/01/ubs-good-bank-aig-bailout
UBS made billions off the US taxpayer and paid millions to former Sen. Phil Gramm and former President Bill Clinton, the two people most responsible for the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the New Deal regulations that had protected taxpayers from the Wall Street casino. Their actions led directly to the crash of 2008.
redwitch
(14,944 posts)Off to ignore you go. So nice of you to show up to make DU suck harder than it already does lately.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)by the attempt at creating a sense of urgency so that Hillary can stop having to be on the left and pivot rightward for the GE.
Keep trying, but this isn't over quite yet. She still has to talk out of the left side of her mouth for a couple of months.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)That's why Hillary supporters are squirming. They know the longer she has to compete with Bernie, the longer she has to keep up the facade of being anywhere near the left. It's really intriguing to watch the machinations going on.
840high
(17,196 posts)busy telling people that Trump is rich. Poor Hillary.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)bluedigger
(17,086 posts)And it's not looking good.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)bluedigger
(17,086 posts)It's okay, though, it hasn't stopped us.
It's symptomatic of why we started, after all.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)It's pretty straightforward. Why would anyone "shift" if Hillary is already a given?
Every vote Bernie gets demonstrates the extent of the support for his agenda.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Her "incrementalism" and tepid proposals will doom the planet as surely as climate change deniers.
You'll own that.
Personally I have to live with myself so Bernie needs to stay in to the convention and keep getting the message out.
The planet is in its 11th hour.
Those who are clear thinking Democrats know the most important issue is climate change and will fight like hell to keep the only candidate out in the public eye, Bernie Sanders for as long as Bernie can go.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'll stay classy and won't say I told you so.
But I'll be thinking it.
Go do some research. The increasingly severe weather and earth events are going to start snowballing within the next 5 years.
Madame President will go down as the worst president ever for her failure to take bold muscular climate change leadership immediately.
And you'll own that.
onecaliberal
(32,864 posts)Fellows sell out future humanity because of greed and ignorance. 67% think she's a liar, Indies hate her and they number more than republicans or democrats. That coupled with all republicans coming out to vote against her, spells LOSER any way you spin it. Put it in 4th and drive the country off the cliff, don't cry about the results.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)onecaliberal
(32,864 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)She failed to get enough delegates even with all of the corruption, bribes, and Machiavellian tactics. That is a bad sign for the GE that on of the poorest senators that is older, less overtly religious, and Jewish (I am listing those because polls show that she should have had an advantage on him since far more people will not vote for a Jewish or less religious person than a white woman). Come the convention if she is still running she may have enough left to bribe the remaining delegates over to her side like she did with the earlier super delegates and the "Hillary victory fund".
realmirage
(2,117 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I am just worried that the HRC crew will be to high up on the house of cards when it finally comes down. I am just looking at it from and Osha safety stand point.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,378 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Most of this site has been in meltdown mode for weeks. How could tomorrow be any worse?
Nonetheless, I am greatly looking forward to tomorrow, almost as much as Annie. And just think, it's only a day away.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)of trying to save the country despite it being a rigged system.
So have his supporters. None of us are doing this for ourselves.
It is the children and their futures that you are ruining. I don't see that as something to celebrate.
But don't feel bad for us Bernie supporters, we will continue on without tears. We really didn't expect much out of you anyway.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Surely you weren't pulled in and convinced by his talking points and solidified those thoughts in anger when his loss became apparent
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I also know about Hillary which is why I could never support her.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)for those times when the math becomes overwhelming
If math becomes obstacle, then assume paid bot
If disagreeing fellow democrat confronts and is not brock-bot, then reiterate
and insist other poster definitely brock-bot. 1st line plus 2nd line = feel better
free of charge code. all legal, no medical license needed
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)onecaliberal
(32,864 posts)dubyadiprecession
(5,714 posts)support on the left. Bernie will help Hillary, because he will be as outraged as anyone.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)This won't be a problem in November
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Nice to have someone who is not a warmonger in the race.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)and nutritional!
Vattel
(9,289 posts)And it is not tasty. It kind of makes me want to vomit.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Read this honestly. You know what I expect? I expect you'll misunderstand the whole thing and say it's proof that you were right all along. Let's see.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-a-hawk.html?_r=0
polichick
(37,152 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)They have other ways of measuring the immediacy of time ...
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It does no harm for Bernie to stay in the race 'through the end of the primaries.
Only the far right wing of this party would benefit from HRC being nominated by acclimation.
No one who wants a progressive future for this country would gain.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Keep on keeping on Hillary supporters. The end is going to be harsh.
For all of us.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Outfitted your survival bunker with food enough for the next 80 years? Surely Armageddon will occur at her inauguration. You sound ready for that though
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)On the bright side, it won't last nearly as long as what Hillary supporters have had to put up with.
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)Remember that? Perhaps they can carpool.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)So Joe Biden or John Kerry can be thr DNC choice at the convention when Hillary is indicted.
I guess I should add (snark).
realmirage
(2,117 posts)but the Bernie or busters here are fully ready
k8conant
(3,030 posts)It's not over until we have an unindictable nominee.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)be sure to also ask her to make the superdelegates overturn the will of the people. Then the revolution will be complete.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)but that doesn't help bernie win does it?
k8conant
(3,030 posts)Ha ha ha
jfern
(5,204 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)and send someone to jail who all credible experts say has done nothing worth being prosecuted over, including Bernie Sanders, who doesn't care about the "damn emails."
Make it happen fairy
k8conant
(3,030 posts)Hmmpf. Collect your money.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)and please, for pete's sake start reading credible sources on this topic. The credible experts on this have all explained that there's no case. Go research it if you actually do care about the truth. But i already know, you won't spend a second researching it. Cause that doesn't help bernie win.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)Apparently the only "experts" you believe are the ones who say what you want them to.
I've already researched it. How many of the emails have you read? How do you reconcile her actions with the agreement she signed?
She was SOS and knew what was classified. She's a lawyer, for chrissake, and knew better but thought her "fame" would save her. It may, of course, but not because she's innocent.
jfern
(5,204 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)force them to do so. If you want to get them to decide to support Hillary you need to come up with a more persuasive argument.
I would like to say:
"Dear Sanders supporters, we have the utmost respect for you and your candidate. We would love for you to support Hillary Clinton when you are ready, if Bernie does not become the Dem candidate. We will most certainly support Bernie if he does become the nominee."
realmirage
(2,117 posts)See how quickly your ass catches fire
B
I
Says hi Hillary!
realmirage
(2,117 posts)oh please, I just gotta have my candidate win. At any cost.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Have been overturned every step of this election so far, one more might balance the scales.
Unicorn
(424 posts)I bet there ends up being a new progressive liberal party out of this.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)in about 400 years. Good plan
Unicorn
(424 posts)dem party. Going for corruption is what's killing it.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The OP is a typical low information Hillary voter on climate change (amongst other things. ....)
They think we actually have time....
I won't say I told you so to Hillary supporters.
But I'll be thinking it.
And cursing them as more and more extreme weather and environmental events snowball.
Unicorn
(424 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... maybe you guys could try a bottom-up "revolution" instead. First step: actually register as Democrats and participate.
Otherwise you're just wasting your time, and it looks like whining and sour-grapes.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)now name ONE issue you like Hillary on, IN full detail. Go on.
I mean that. I will be easy on you. What is her sand on the minimum wage?
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Eom
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Tick tock, Hilbot.