that we are all brethren.

So how do you explain what's happening on Facebook, with the major Bernie Sanders groups being shut down? It's horrible.

Do you know who is shutting them down?

I saw something about this on Facebook; I'll try to bring some info here.

to play coy. Don't bite. Debbiegate part 2?

Please note that, though his anonymous report obviously had no merit (considering the group was reinstated), He is so pleased with himself that he had to identify himself on Facebook and say he didn't care if the Bernie group knew who shut them down. From comments made by him and his friends, they were having lotsa fun. Ha-ha!



?oh=873ee9ada8845895da0120e0a2834953&oe=57A020E0

I notice that the owner of the FB group (bros4hillary.com) speaks of apologizing to the groups affected by a member who acted on his own authority, etc.---but . . . I wonder how many members of the groups affected by that member's behavior are aware of an apology being made. I mean: Has the owner or leadership team of bros4hillary.com made such an apology directly to the Bernie groups . . . or was the apology simply mentioned on their own FB page? In any case. . . . just curious.



Thanks again for the link.

its more likely that Facebook took down the groups...

admin the group are.

non-members?

The people who had been posting in those groups could not find them--that is how they knew the groups had been taken down.

I don't know about the alerts.

If someone was being a mole and got admin access, they could have done it, but otherwise I don't see a way. And FB is pretty lenient about closed groups, unless they advocate something illegal or immoral, they usually leave them alone.

post on DU today or yesterday about it.

Seems weird to think they were all on the same down server or something...i'm sure the group admins will be notified what happened.

but according to Bernie supporters here, anyone who says it was a glitch is on the payroll.

Just FYI.

but I got all religious and the brethren came out.

Please do not take it as sexist.

Let them have their anti-Hillary ScatFest.

What makes you think they might want to "come along" beside the usual appeal to "common-sense in the face of GOP control" of all three branches of federal government? That hasn't worked yet! Mostly because they feel as if all is lost regardless -- who cares about SCOTUS if we don't address climate change effectively, World War III erupts, or we have violent instead of political revolution (and probably suppression of insurrection) in the next 20 years as a result of status quo or incrementalism at best.

then Bernie's supporters have to make a choice as to whether or not they can work with others elsewhere. Elections are about getting the people that support you to vote. Hillary seems to be doing what she needs to win the nomination. That's just part of politics, though. Can Bernie's New/Temporary/Anybody-but-Hillary Democrats work with other people over decades, or is The Revolution going to go Galt and move to Justus, Montana?

I think it's pretty clear cut. I have only ever voted Democrat except for one Republican, one time. A County State's Attorney about 20 years ago. I have no doubt that The Democratic Party is the best vehicle for promoting Peace, Prosperity, Social Progress, Humanitarianism and a healthy environment. I also have no delusions that much will get done without the votes.

I have voted every election since 1972 Democratis up and down the ticket without exception. It's Bernie or bust for me.

Of course Berners can work with others. Just because they don't support Hillary does not mean they can't work with others. Seems to me the reverse is more true.

Thank you.

There's a dialectical contradiction in this revolution. It's evident here in the often hysterical insulting of the intelligence or morality of people they must to convince in order to grow a movement. That, or it's just venting and hot air. Or they'll need to go genuinely underground like the weathermen, which spun off from the students for a democratic society (that's would of course entail risky sacrifices including behaviors advocating violence and criminality, which I abhor).

I hope most Sanders and Clinton supporters tighten up their game and help long-term elect more genuinely liberal people to the House and Senate. And to local and state races, where we desperately need more genuine liberals. I believe we need at least 100 more people like Sanders in our Congress and thousands more in state legislatures and nationwide to get the change we desperately need in our country. I also have no delusions that much will get done without the votes. Currently, in most places apart from the executive branch democrats and people to their left aren't winning very many elections.

You're probably not my " brethren " (sexist, typical) and are instead committing all of us on a path of mass destruction.

Are you Justin committed to supporting the efforts required NOW to do everything possible? To a candidate whose going to prioritize climate change issues from Day 1? Because that's Bernie. Not Hillary. If you can't get behind that then you're actively working against my children and everyone else's future.

And you're no brother of mine and are instead the enemy.

Sorry but the planet's in its 11th hour. There's no more time to waste on incrementalism and status quo.

and please understand my brethren comment was never meant to be sexist.

Are you with Justin, Hillary and "incrementalism" when it comes to addressing climate change, with supporting major polluters like the fracking industry?

Justin and Hillary obviously don't give a fuck about us or the planet.

Do you?

At least Justin is honest. He's with her and doesn't give a shit.

Do you? If not do you think this is the time for coy, polite discussion?

I have children. I actually care about a viable planet going forward. Anyone who isn't focused like a laser beam on the issue is fucking us over.

Bernie’s the only Dem candidate who cares with muscular, solid, bold leadership on climate change. Get on board or prepare to die.

Literally.

Climate scientists predict the leading edge of catastrophic weather and environmental severe events will be here within 5 years.

Madame President will go down as the worst president ever for her failure to take aggressive action on climate change proposals.

400 ppm, and 2 degree centigrade, need I say more? The permafrost might start to go, reverse loop with methane.

But, and I blame myself, as much as I try as a small media outlet, I have not been able to educate enough people for people to get it.

I am sorry, I mean that.

As to the political class, the last idiot with the most toys wins. That is the way they think

... and not in a good way.

Come on, the guy said something all pleasant and koombayah and you gotta get all end-of-the-world about it and label anyone who doesn't support your candidate as an enemy. If the author of the OP is your idea of an enemy, you clearly don't know what enemies are.

If only I had the luxury to treat everyone who didn't support my favored candidate as an enemy. Heck, people of all stripes and persuasions put food on my table, everyone from the farthest right winger to the most revolutionary leftist. And hey, none of them are enemies because the steak tastes great.

Only one candidate is prioritizing this and its not Hillary.

I love my children. There's no greater issue in this election. I'm done being nice about it. I demand action to ensure their future and everyone else's.

Anyone who isn't fighting now, 100% with every effort to save our planet is my enemy.

They should be yours too.

There's no more time.

Then why are you here? Why aren't you on sites where you can just talk about how wonderful Bernie is? Why go to a site where at least 20% of the readership is, as you say, your enemy. I actually have enemies. Heck, I have enemies that would make your hair curl. I've faced off against everything from mob wives to rogue police officers to even clowns. And guess what? I don't go hang out where they are. LOL

already while canvassing. Put in over 30 hours phone banking.

I'll add to my total this weekend when I hit Indiana hard.

You?

Being a keyboard warrior isn't nearly as satisfying as real life experiences which is why JPR and DU are my only internet boards oh newbie of 5 weeks and 6 hides already.

Does Brock pay you for hides? I've always been curious?

As many other Hillary supporters have said in the Hillary group, they, like me, have been hidden for absolutely trivial things that might be a little snarky but are nowhere near as bad as whatever they were responding to. I am not remotely phased by being hidden by a jury system that is completely rigged to favor the 80% lean towards Bernie by people on this site. And I am basing this not only on a poll I put up, but nearly every other one I've seen. This site skews so heavily Bernie, that Bernie supporters are able to say all manner of horrible things while Hillary supporters get hidden and banned for days on end for outright fraudulent hides. One hide was for saying that we shouldn't post Fox news and I was told that this was calling the reputation of a longtime DU'er into question, as if I had any idea how long she's been here.

I don't need to knock on 1,000 doors. I have over a hundred thousand social media followers across my various social media pages. If I really wanted to exploit my personal and business brands to influence voters, I would do so, but I decided to post here to share ideas and I figure my fans would rather I shut up and sing. But this site isn't about ideas. This is about being hateful and vicious and calling people the enemy. But either way, I could influence a thousandfold the number of people you ever could and I'd never have to leave my keyboard.

Yours is now maybe the 20th post accusing me of being a sock or a paid troll and ibegurpard (who I wish I could tag) said "no one cares." Oh, they care or they wouldn't keep accusing me of that.

... because it means I ultimately won't have the last word, but I think I'm going to ignore you. You're just not fun to go back and forth with, maybe because you think we're all enemies.

#byefelicia.

Beyonce. (j/k)

Keep singing. It's great for the soul.

She's like the .01%!

I actually do love to sing, though I've never had a chance to be paid for it like I'm paid for trolling. Just kidding. I'm not paid for either.

Who can believe your call for unity?

I said the OP was calling for unity. I was calling for unity a few weeks ago before I was called a sock account, paid troll, stupid, slow, delusional, and numerous other epithets that were hurled in my direction. Now I just don't care. I know Hillary's going to win and I know I'm going to vote for her in November. If others come around or don't come around, that's on them. I'm no longer interested in negotiating with hate. Maybe if I were more fairly treated, I'd have considered a few more bunnies and rainbows in my sig file, but it's not like they can alert on me for something the man actually said.

Shit, your experience here has truly sucked.

... but then you already know that because most of the Hillary supporters here get alert-stalked constantly.

I won't say I'm not annoyed by how I was treated but that's fine. I've dealt with far worse. I like a good debate with the best of them, but much of what goes on here is just hate the likes of which is usually reserved for embarrassments like Free Republic.

To someone implying Bernie was going to go for Kim Jong next. I was just following the person's line of humor I was responding to. That was probably the most fraudulent hide I got.

The previous poster I was responding to said "24. Obviously he'll be after the coveted Kim Jong-un next" ...

That was a snarky subject that not only trivialized my post but set the tone for Kim Jong Un comparisons. I simply played along with the snark. That was the most unfair hide. But whatever. It inspired the signature I had up that they couldn't do anything about and, in the future, when I'm hidden unfairly, I know exactly what buttons to push that are beyond ability to jury out so its fine if folks don't want to play fair. Theres always another way to make the point.

If you really think the hide where saying we shouldn't post Fox News links is disparaging a long time DU'er's reputation then I don't even know what to think. The actual long time DUer herself said she didn't think my response was hide worthy.

I took down the Bernie as the Blessed Mother pic. I thought that was kind considering I thought of animating it so his head twirled like Linda Blair.

Zero fucks.

Sure looks that way from here. I added back the Sandy Hook Shame. I figure that'll help some voters who don't actually want to change their gun policies in order to synchronize with Bernie's candidacy understand what he's really about.

In light of what's going on in another thread.

I make more than Sid, never mind Brock's trolls. I don't need Hillary's money.

Why did you recently come to a site where 80% of the posters are opposed to your candidate?

I am not the one calling Bernie supporters my enemies, nor do I consider this person an enemy. She's calling anyone who doesn't support her candidate her enemy so I had to wonder why she'd bother going anywhere where enemies were. My ultimate assertion is really that she does not know what enemies are. That's ok. She can have some of mine. It would be an eye-opening experience I'm sure.

I actually had to put her on ignore, and I have nobody on ignore, because I just couldn't see the point of hearing that I was a paid troll anymore just because I was new to posting, especially when those absentee admins could verify my identity in under ten seconds.

It was a huge relief to find somewhere people didn't think the Sun shone out of Dubya's ass, particularly in the South where I live you couldn't question C+ Augustus without severe social blowback, I for one am still grateful. I found DU through Bartcop, Bartcop is dead now and has been for a while, he was a great guy but his site wasn't really designed for back and forth communications while DU is probably the best forum software I've ever seen.

My point is that things change in politics, Dubya no longer has a 90% approval rating but strangely enough I'm still here and it's other posters who have kept me here, posters who are funny, posters who are smart. DU sucks in many ways but even so it's better than lots of other places to hang out online. You stepped into a place with a considerable history and a number of people who still remember it and share a certain camaraderie for lack of a better term.

... once you get past some of the viciousness and vitriol. I live in red state Louisiana where, in spite of our Democratic governor (who probably only got in because Jindal was just so terrible), I don't think my vote for president will matter either way.

As for the best forum software, I think most forum software is lame on some level or another but the jury system on this one takes the cake. If it actually had admins behind it so that things could be appealed, then people would be less likely to abuse it. So maybe it's not the software so much as it is the absence of oversight. If people knew that their fraudulent alerts would lose on appeal and possibly have consequences from an admin, they would be far less likely those alerts.

I run a Facebook group with 6,000 members. I managed to gather together a group of about ten admins, all of whom keep up with what's going on. I find it incredulous that the owners of this site couldn't find ten level-headed members who know how to separate their political bias from their ability to evaluate what is abuse and what isn't.

At least a couple of times I've known the hide was coming before I pushed Enter on the post. On the other hand I've never got to five within 90 days and I've gone years without one.

DU used to be run the way you run your Facebook group and to my jaundiced eye it wasn't any more fair or impartial then then than juries are now, obvious trolls stuck around for years (LoZoccolo, Operation Mind Crime, You Better Believe It) while sincere posters got banned. There was just as much whining about mods then as there is about juries now.

I started online political commentary on Usenet where there are zero rules so you can say quite literally anything and I know how to give at least as good as I get in that environment but it's boring after a while, there are only so many ways to tell someone to go fornicate themselves athwart ship with an oxidized agricultural implement.

Anytime I read the comments in those alerts, it's so clear that's 90% partisan commentary. At least admins might have some chance. Then again, maybe a combination of jury and admins. I do think if there were admins for appeals, people would be less likely to game the jury system.

A lot of why you got less may be dependent on who you supported. If you were always for the candidate supported by the majority of this site, then you'd automatically get less. I do not know if my hides are available but only one of them is valid when taken into context of the overall conversation and, as you said, I knew before I pushed Enter on the post. I am not one to cry victim. Most of the time, I revel in my mischievous side, but when I think of what I actually could say versus what got alerted, I'm actually quite shocked.

I mean, frankly, that my sig file stays and certain benign comments I've made have been alerted is utterly shocking to me.

In 2008 I liked a lot of what Edwards had to say but he was obviously to my eyes a bit of a sleazeball well before the news of his affair was broken. He reminded me of the traveling salesman in the hotel bar at 1 AM trying to pick up the waitress.

Senator Obama pretty much lost any enthusiasm I could have felt for him when he voted for FISA and retroactive telecom immunity, such an obvious whitewash of some really sordid stuff. Not quite as bad as Hillary's IWR vote but on a similar level of "what were you thinking?".

The difference between our sig lines is that mine supports a candidate while yours attacks one.. Also my sig was designed by Jackpine Radical, a DUer now passed on to the big forum in the sky and a DUer I liked a lot. I wouldn't have one otherwise and only put it up as a commemoration.

Having been here for a long time I can tell you that a lot of the old timers I'm in conflict with over this primary are the same people I have not seen eye to eye with regarding many issues over the years. On the other hand the old timers who are BernieBros are mostly people I liked and respected long before Sanders decided to run for President.

I love my kids too. They have student debt. It won't be the ocean that drowns them.

My daughter may have to fight for her reproductive rights all over again. A wire hanger could kill her or her daughters long before a hurricane.

My parents are on a fixed income and need medication. Some months it's food or medication. Hmmm....my kids, my parents or the planet.

I have to look at both candidates at ALL the issues. Don't misunderstand me, climate change is very important. To me and my children. But so are a host of other issues.

Lucky for you all you have to consider is one issue. Must be nice not to have to bear anymore weight than that.

Nice to meet you enemy.

I find these appeals to authority curious and improbable.

Would you believe me if I, anonymous internet poster claim all of the above as well?

Kids with high student loan college debt?

Daughters?

Parents on fixed income?

Severe, chronic health issues requiring tiresome juggling of finances to make it every month in order to buy meds.

All are true! What's even funnier, is any search of my history proves my claims.

Let me add, I'm a farrmer whose very livelihood depends on the climate.

Plus I'm an ardent feminist, an animal welfare rescue worker, and a grant writer for women's shelters and open space conservation.

All of which means shit when sea levels rise 2 inches in the next 5 years, massive internal global displacement hits even the most insulated communities, rising temps obliterate historic croplands, and people begin to turn to anarchy.

Severe climate and environmental events are already upon us and they're going to escalate like wildfire in the next 5 years according to climate scientists.

Debating SCOTUS picks will seem quaint very soon imo.

Difference is, I'm willing to see beyond my nose. It appears Hillary supporters are still dwelling amongst climate change deniers. Oh maybe you actually believe in the science but are unwilling to admit the looming catastrophe.

Same thing. Shrug again.

Its on your head.

I won't say I told you so but I'll be thinking it.

This was such a beautiful planet. I walk around this amazing Pacific Northwest and I look at the trees, flowers, mountains and lakes. I say I am sorry to this nature. I am.


She will eventually come back after it sheds the last vestiges of our footprints upon her crust.If there is an intelligent higher power, they will not let evolution recreate man again.

Your children included.

I don't care to see them upclose.

But the rest? I'm cool with them.

And you have been one of the worst offenders.

Coming from you its almost as ridiculous as Hillary's attack on Trump for his "country club lifestyle" today...

Love and kindness will win out in the end!

And let's not kid ourselves that you are motivated by love and kindness.

Love and kindness!

Then I realized Cali thinks we should be more loving toward Hillary/supporters. He is right in a way. We can love them but disagree wholeheartedly with them. That doesn't mean we should take being put down, pushed around, or cheated.

and even now being attacked, No we are not.

And it is bad enough that I would not share a fox hole with a few people here. There are some things you never forget. And trust is not something that exists anymore.

Oh and in case you are wondering, previous seasons have led to things like this, but nothing like this one. Myself I will vote however I care to vote, but I do not trust many of the Hillary supporters, and you know PRECISELY who they are. Don't pretend there is any kind of unity.

I'm so over the whole unity.thing.

Justin never defended you or I when the merciless attacks started. A pack of rabid dogs...

There's DUers here and Hillary supporters in RL I will never forget.

I don't think I have gone two hours without having someone say I was a sock account, a paid troll, or some other variation on the theme so I can relate. I just keep repeating the mantra that the admins are more than capable of verifying for anyone that I am not a sock.

The number of times I keep getting accused of being a sock or a paid troll in the past few weeks proves that people very much care. I am very grateful if you don't, however, so thank you.

because I called you a troll?!



You can't even keep your story straight on this thread! Lol...

Makes it too hard to follow conversations.

And you missed the memo. Now that I put myself out there, it's my career and personal life that's up for grabs now, in what is possibly the ultimate in hypocrisy. LOL

First I was a paid troll. Then I proved I wasn't. So rather than admit that you all lied, you're now going to try to pick apart personally?

Whatever. I still have more toys than you.

It is true. We don't care about the newbies.

What were they called in Platoon? Nobody bothered to learn their names in case they got killed straight away.

I think there is a 3 month minimum before we even care just a little.

they questioned whether I was an immigrant or a POC... oh the same folks have been dong some of that shit for years. But this was beyond the pale. Ok.

Of course due to their idiocy, I am not going anywhere. a burr in the saddle if you will,

What they did was well beyond the pale and then some. So no, I trust those people as far as I can thrown them. They are not even political operatives, and I have words but they jury would have fun.

So no, it's not being a sock. It is far worst than that.

By the way, your signature, the avatars you are using are quite disgusting, but you know that because people have told you this.

... And when people stop alert stalking me for the most ridiculously trivial comments, all of which were far less incendiary than whatever it was I was responding to, all because there is a jury system here that favors the 80% slant towards Bernie on this site, I will happily put something with bunnies and rainbows. Why should Hillary supporters self-silence themselves when they've got Bernie supporters to silence them every ten minutes with hides that ban them from the site for days on end.

Everything in my signature file is true. However, you said "avatars" and my only avatar is Hillary's icon for small businesses. Should I assume that you hate small businesses too?

I have never said you were or were not a POC, an immigrant, or anything else, and if someone called you a liar in that regard, they were wrong to do so, regardless of their affiliation. But I did not do that, nor did I accuse anyone of being a sock or a paid troll and I'm getting pretty sick of the accusation.

jesus... where to start with alert stalking, Would you line some serious cyber trolling? I got some, They live in the trash at my own site. Yup, they went that far, a few of them. One still tries from time to time.

And I never said YOU DID. You newbie you, these are old, old, old, old, members who are all but nice. And I have no trust for them. The OP for example is one of them. He chose a stance, and for that I know I cannot trust him... and he knows it. He is one of the people that I would not share a fox hole with in real life. M'KAY.

And your signature is still disgusting. I know other folks have told you that.

I have lurked here since the '08 elections off and on and visited on occasion long before that. And even if I hadn't, what difference does it make? Just because I'm new to the site does not mean I am new to the issues. I'm 46 years old and studied politics at one of the premiere political science-oriented Universities in the world.

I don't know the author of the OP, but I don't think all this hate is right. Heck, the amount of it directed at me has turned me into a real curmudgeon (see signature).

The only thing I see is disgusting is how Bernie's supporters are abusing a jury system that clearly favors the majority with no real oversight or appeals process into whether or not that jury is making a decision based on an actual issue with the post, or trying to silence anything they can remotely argue is disagreeable on the part of a Hillary supporter while Bernie's supporters enjoy the protection of an 80% majority here by which almost nothing they ever do gets hidden. Perhaps more than a flaw of the Bernie supporters, it's a flaw in the site application that allows this sort of thing to go on. I get the jury system as a way to reduce the amount of times people run to admins, but that there is no real appeal process to oversee the potential abuses of the jury system itself, this site has become all but unusable.

I agree with you.

And you know what, EVERYBODY is abusing the jury system. I refuse to participate in it becuase it is a failure.

We also have bullies and stalkers here.

Here is the thing, I don't totally fault the Bernie supporters for abusing the jury system. If the Hillary folks were in the majority, I imagine they'd abuse it just as much, but the fact remains that they cannot abuse it as much. When a vote requires four to three to hide something and Hillary supporters are less than 20% of the site's active members, then the system is automatically rigged against them.

Ultimately, I think the fault lies with the site application itself and the fact that a jury system clearly isn't a good substitute for admins. A jury system should work in conjunction with admins to keep things fair. But what I've seen lately is anything but fair. Every single hide I got except one (that was, admittedly, a little over the top) was for a post far less incendiary than whatever I was responding to and, in some cases, wasn't even incendiary at all and based solely on the fact that the person I responded to questioning posting Fox News as a source had been here a long time. It was completely unfair. And the fact is, I couldn't retaliate if I wanted to because there aren't enough Hillary supporters here to vote for any alerts I placed on people even if I wanted to abuse the system—and I don't.

I have been a victim of it since inception, which was before this fun. I was alert stalked before we had the jury system. To the point that if I posted the sky is blue, that would be alerted. I mean that. I know that to be a fact.

So at this point I just smile. The Admins allowed for that environment. Make your bed, not you, I have to clarify obviously, lay on it. The admins created that problem by letting loose with actually bullies and cyber stalkers.

You are seeing the results of a very long problem Some of us warned the owners of this years ago.

So I don't cry over spilled milk at this point. Too much website history, I know.

But the Hillary supporters aren't able to actually manipulate the jury system so that they can hide anything but the most truly egregious posts, while Right Wing punditry, absolute hate speech, and even outright racism makes it through the alert system so long as its ultimate goal is supporting the candidacy of Sanders. I'm not saying the Hillary people wouldn't abuse the jury system if they were in the majority. I think most people who support a candidate or an idea would. So it's in the interest of the Web hosts to actually have a system that is not the easily gamed because it's going to result in a lot more anger than would ever have existed here without it. Frankly, that jury system is the reason I hate Bernie Sanders and he probably has no idea it even exists. LOL

And you hate Bernie Sanders because of the DU jury system? Two thoughts:

1) To do so you have would have to be such an ignorant, uninformed, juvenile idiot that it beggars belief. So I think you are not being honest in that statement.

2) The 100,00+ 'followers' you have must be very gullible

... but I do think it's pretty lousy the way the system is abused here.

Either way, I'll vote for him in November if he's the nominee. Anything else is unconscionable