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bigtree

(85,998 posts)
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:19 AM Apr 2016

If you thought everyone who disagreed with you was either ignorant or bought, you'd be obnoxious too

(Sanders' celebrity surrogate) Tim Robbins' nutty conspiracy mongering starts to seem sensible if you place yourself in the mindset of a Sanders supporter, as laid out by Sanders himself.



Remember, Sanders believes that if voters were truly paying attention to the issues and uninfluenced by special interests, then more than 90% of people would support his agenda.

If that is really true, then there can be only three possible reasons Sanders is losing: Voters are ignorant, they've been bought off, or they actually are voting for him and the machines are rigged. If you honestly believed that, then why wouldn't you approach Sanders' opponents as ignorant and corrupt?

It's common for Sanders supporters to accuse politicians and reporters of being bought off. The remarkable thing here is that Robbins is lobbing these accusations at individual voters. It might seem odd that Clinton allies would bother paying off a Twitter user with just 46 followers — but then, choosing to oppose Bernie Sanders is so weird that it's hard to understand how else it would happen.

The third mode of Sanders supporter engagement with disagreement is condescension: If you weren't paid off and your vote wasn't stolen from you, then maybe you're just too ill-informed to realize Sanders is the candidate you actually want.


If Robbins and other Sanders supporters want to be less insufferable in the future, then they might consider that sometimes candidates lose because voters disagree with them on issues — or don't think they're the most capable candidates for the job.

Just putting it out there.


read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-supporters-bros-tim-robbins-2016-4
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If you thought everyone who disagreed with you was either ignorant or bought, you'd be obnoxious too (Original Post) bigtree Apr 2016 OP
K&R! stonecutter357 Apr 2016 #1
Oh lord. Firebrand Gary Apr 2016 #2
So it's fine for Clinton supporters to be aggressive in advancing their beliefs... Armstead Apr 2016 #3
I still haven't actually been able to determine what beliefs they are advancing... tk2kewl Apr 2016 #12
Don't need them I guess. Beliefs are baggage. Armstead Apr 2016 #14
The very essence of cognitive dissonance AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #33
So Robbins is outing himself as a liar then? Lucinda Apr 2016 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #5
Hammer and sickle? Armstead Apr 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #24
SOB? (Son of a Bircher) Cuz who else makes references like this in 2016?????? lunasun Apr 2016 #27
Tim Robbins contributed to Michelle Bachman dsc Apr 2016 #6
wow jcgoldie Apr 2016 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #25
K&R betsuni Apr 2016 #7
He's a ... NurseJackie Apr 2016 #8
Ignorant, corrupt or simply malicious? Maybe symptomatic? Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #9
And just put it out there you did. NCTraveler Apr 2016 #10
correct the record has paid trolls. are you proud of that? think Apr 2016 #11
I have found that what Bernie believes rock Apr 2016 #13
Please enlighten me as to what parts of his basic message are not real? Armstead Apr 2016 #17
The crazy appears to be contagious. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #15
Yes, but I suspect some engaged enthusiasts have been just Hortensis Apr 2016 #18
Some will crawl back under their Libertarian rocks, not to appear again for another four years. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #19
Just personally speaking, that would be desirable, Hortensis Apr 2016 #20
Black and white thinking is always dangerous. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #22
I always agree with your observtion, Surya. :) Hortensis Apr 2016 #23
St. Bernardo's "political revolution"...the "Mass Movement" that wasn't. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #26
Never seen it put better! Hortensis Apr 2016 #29
Agree...about his campaign in its early stages. Now? Not so much... Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #30
True. Wish he'd lived up to the standards he claimed, Hortensis Apr 2016 #31
Who is so silly to base their vote on movie stars? Or post OPs on their twitter accounts? PufPuf23 Apr 2016 #28
Wow. I'm embarrassed for him. My gosh, how old is he? grossproffit Apr 2016 #32
here's the kicker bros bigtree Apr 2016 #34
Clinton surrogates bigtree Apr 2016 #35
 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
3. So it's fine for Clinton supporters to be aggressive in advancing their beliefs...
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:27 AM
Apr 2016

but it's inappropriate for those who support Sanders.

Nice little double standard ya got going there.

Even if you take out "conspiracy theories" abo9ut election fraud and outright dirty tricks, it isn't just "three possible reasons" Sanders is not winning. There are many factors, including how candidates have been portrayed by the media, ingrained voting habits and others.

But according to the Clintonian Catch 22, when rational speculation is raised by Sanders and supporters is is dismissed as "rationalizations" and excuses.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
12. I still haven't actually been able to determine what beliefs they are advancing...
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:02 AM
Apr 2016

not from what they say anyway.

I can only conclude that they like neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
14. Don't need them I guess. Beliefs are baggage.
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:04 AM
Apr 2016

Too difficult to lug them around, especially when you have to change them to fit the situation.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
4. So Robbins is outing himself as a liar then?
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 07:29 AM
Apr 2016

That's what this PAC's stated purpose is. To correct the lies and misstatements about the campaign. So these people criticizing him, the ones he is calling paid ops, have provided a great service already! Thanks Tim!

Response to bigtree (Original post)

Response to Armstead (Reply #16)

Response to dsc (Reply #6)

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
17. Please enlighten me as to what parts of his basic message are not real?
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:18 AM
Apr 2016

Do you think we do not have an excessive concentration of wealth and power, and a trend towards monopolies?

Do you think climate change is a hoax, or an issue maybe we'll have to deal with sometime in the distant future?

Perhaps it's a good thing that we are losing so many factories and service operations to outsourcing abroad?

Think the Iraq War was a rip roaring success?

Hey, if you think Clinton has better solutions or something, fine. That's horseracing. But do you really think these and otehr trends and events are not problems? Maybe we shouldn't believe our lying eyes.



Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
18. Yes, but I suspect some engaged enthusiasts have been just
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:18 AM
Apr 2016

been running with an exciting, ardent crowd that believes in their candidate. After the primary, they'll probably go various ways. The True Believers will...do whatever they do in these situations.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Just personally speaking, that would be desirable,
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:43 AM
Apr 2016

poor things, several months of exposure to far-left/radical righteousness and hostility being very effective aversion therapy.

But for how long? I'd expect they'd also have their eyes out for a new, stronger extremist leader who promises to wipe out everything in their way, a possibility that should always be concerning. Maybe depending on how well these next four years go, they'll be either reenergized or disengage as after the 1960s?

There are similarities between absolute power and absolute faith: a demand for absolute obedience, a readiness to attempt the impossible, a bias for simple solutions to cut the knot rather than unravel it, the viewing of compromise as surrender. Both absolute power and absolute faith are instruments of dehumanization. Hence, absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power. Eric Hoffer
 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
22. Black and white thinking is always dangerous.
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016
"Hence, absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power."


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
23. I always agree with your observtion, Surya. :)
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 09:59 AM
Apr 2016

Hoffer's statement would not hold true for every individual "True Believer," but pretty much yes for their "Mass Movements." Try to find one mass movement of that type that it does not.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
26. St. Bernardo's "political revolution"...the "Mass Movement" that wasn't.
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 10:13 AM
Apr 2016

You can't wish a movement into being. The Bern and his "Band of Brothers" just can't seem to get Airship Sanders up to take-off speed.

And, another one bites the dust...

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
29. Never seen it put better!
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 10:28 AM
Apr 2016

We seem to have gotten the best of Airship Sanders, though. I believe their energy and impetus for change have bee good for us, but we won't have to watch his revolution crash, and the negative energy hasn't gotten out of control.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
30. Agree...about his campaign in its early stages. Now? Not so much...
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 10:36 AM
Apr 2016
"I believe their energy and impetus for change have been good for us."

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
31. True. Wish he'd lived up to the standards he claimed,
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 11:11 AM
Apr 2016

and not just because attacks on Hillary are not good for us.

PufPuf23

(8,789 posts)
28. Who is so silly to base their vote on movie stars? Or post OPs on their twitter accounts?
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 10:23 AM
Apr 2016

I have enjoyed the movies of Robbins and Sarandon and have respected Sarandon as a liberal activist but don't base my vote on the twittering of movie stars.

Why don't you make an OP discussing policy issues rather than an OP on false choices and mischaracterization of folks that support another candidate?

So trite.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
34. here's the kicker bros
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 12:44 PM
Apr 2016
Martha Jackovics ?@BeachPeanuts 3h3 hours ago

Bernie supporters claim every one of us who dare to fact check him are paid HC shills. Here's the kicker bros, we're happy do it for free.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
35. Clinton surrogates
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 04:40 PM
Apr 2016
Dan Merica ?@danmericaCNN 1h1 hour ago

Clinton surrogates have been told not to call for Sanders to get out after tonight. And no one expects he will.
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