2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf you thought everyone who disagreed with you was either ignorant or bought, you'd be obnoxious too
(Sanders' celebrity surrogate) Tim Robbins' nutty conspiracy mongering starts to seem sensible if you place yourself in the mindset of a Sanders supporter, as laid out by Sanders himself.
Remember, Sanders believes that if voters were truly paying attention to the issues and uninfluenced by special interests, then more than 90% of people would support his agenda.
If that is really true, then there can be only three possible reasons Sanders is losing: Voters are ignorant, they've been bought off, or they actually are voting for him and the machines are rigged. If you honestly believed that, then why wouldn't you approach Sanders' opponents as ignorant and corrupt?
It's common for Sanders supporters to accuse politicians and reporters of being bought off. The remarkable thing here is that Robbins is lobbing these accusations at individual voters. It might seem odd that Clinton allies would bother paying off a Twitter user with just 46 followers but then, choosing to oppose Bernie Sanders is so weird that it's hard to understand how else it would happen.
The third mode of Sanders supporter engagement with disagreement is condescension: If you weren't paid off and your vote wasn't stolen from you, then maybe you're just too ill-informed to realize Sanders is the candidate you actually want.
If Robbins and other Sanders supporters want to be less insufferable in the future, then they might consider that sometimes candidates lose because voters disagree with them on issues or don't think they're the most capable candidates for the job.
Just putting it out there.
read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-supporters-bros-tim-robbins-2016-4
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)but it's inappropriate for those who support Sanders.
Nice little double standard ya got going there.
Even if you take out "conspiracy theories" abo9ut election fraud and outright dirty tricks, it isn't just "three possible reasons" Sanders is not winning. There are many factors, including how candidates have been portrayed by the media, ingrained voting habits and others.
But according to the Clintonian Catch 22, when rational speculation is raised by Sanders and supporters is is dismissed as "rationalizations" and excuses.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)not from what they say anyway.
I can only conclude that they like neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Too difficult to lug them around, especially when you have to change them to fit the situation.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)That's what this PAC's stated purpose is. To correct the lies and misstatements about the campaign. So these people criticizing him, the ones he is calling paid ops, have provided a great service already! Thanks Tim!
Response to bigtree (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Response to Armstead (Reply #16)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Bizarre indeed
dsc
(52,162 posts)that is all I really need to know about him.
Tim should take a vacation to Zihua.
Response to dsc (Reply #6)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)think
(11,641 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)Is not a good portrayal of reality.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Do you think we do not have an excessive concentration of wealth and power, and a trend towards monopolies?
Do you think climate change is a hoax, or an issue maybe we'll have to deal with sometime in the distant future?
Perhaps it's a good thing that we are losing so many factories and service operations to outsourcing abroad?
Think the Iraq War was a rip roaring success?
Hey, if you think Clinton has better solutions or something, fine. That's horseracing. But do you really think these and otehr trends and events are not problems? Maybe we shouldn't believe our lying eyes.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)been running with an exciting, ardent crowd that believes in their candidate. After the primary, they'll probably go various ways. The True Believers will...do whatever they do in these situations.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)poor things, several months of exposure to far-left/radical righteousness and hostility being very effective aversion therapy.
But for how long? I'd expect they'd also have their eyes out for a new, stronger extremist leader who promises to wipe out everything in their way, a possibility that should always be concerning. Maybe depending on how well these next four years go, they'll be either reenergized or disengage as after the 1960s?
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Hoffer's statement would not hold true for every individual "True Believer," but pretty much yes for their "Mass Movements." Try to find one mass movement of that type that it does not.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)You can't wish a movement into being. The Bern and his "Band of Brothers" just can't seem to get Airship Sanders up to take-off speed.
And, another one bites the dust...
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)We seem to have gotten the best of Airship Sanders, though. I believe their energy and impetus for change have bee good for us, but we won't have to watch his revolution crash, and the negative energy hasn't gotten out of control.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and not just because attacks on Hillary are not good for us.
PufPuf23
(8,789 posts)I have enjoyed the movies of Robbins and Sarandon and have respected Sarandon as a liberal activist but don't base my vote on the twittering of movie stars.
Why don't you make an OP discussing policy issues rather than an OP on false choices and mischaracterization of folks that support another candidate?
So trite.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)bigtree
(85,998 posts)Bernie supporters claim every one of us who dare to fact check him are paid HC shills. Here's the kicker bros, we're happy do it for free.
bigtree
(85,998 posts)Clinton surrogates have been told not to call for Sanders to get out after tonight. And no one expects he will.