2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf Bernie Sanders isn't the Democratic Nominee Don't Blame Bernie or Bust for Trump's Victory
Why would Bernie or Bust voters risk a future with Donald Trump by refusing to vote for Hillary Clinton?
Its structural change Bernie or Bust wants; its the status quo that Clinton voters want to uphold. I state the case for writing-in Bernie Sanders, if he isnt the Democratic nominee, in this YouTube segment.
As weve heard throughout this election, Dont let perfection be the enemy of the good.
Sure, Clinton would be better than Trump, but better wont prevent the next endless war, or devastating financial collapse. President Obama is sending even more American soldiers to Syria, imagine what Clinton would do as president.
Perfection, from the perspective of keeping the status quo, would be grudgingly voting for Clinton and upholding a flawed system.
Weve had too many never-ending wars, and financial debacles, to stick with a system that rewards candidates under FBI investigation.
The long-term good, for the Bernie or Bust movement, is to ensure future Democratic nominees arent advised by Henry Kissinger, paid millions by Wall Street, or given donations from political rivals like Donald Trump.
Sorry, Im never voting for a Democrat who accepted, alongside her husband, $153 million from Wall Street. How does this affect her value system? These millions were given so that Clinton doesnt advocate breaking up Too Big to Fail banks or reinstate Glass-Steagall. Its structural change that Wall Street fears, not a watered-down Dodd-Frank.
Read more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/if-sanders-isnt-democratic-nominee-dont-blame-bernie-or-bust-trumps-victory_b_9769874.html
Interesting article......
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Coventina
(27,121 posts)I posted an article that I found had interesting points.
Stuckinthebush
(10,845 posts)It's past obnoxious.
If someone is so myopic that they won't vote for Hillary based on imagined demons then God bless. Those people are few and far between. They prefer to scream and yell from the sidelines with their demands of purity. The constant posts of "I'll never vote for Shillary!" are sophomoric and short sighted.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I had not seen that statement in a long time. But there it is.
About your "imagined demons".... All I can tell you is that one has to be in denial to not admit that H has promised war. She did not say you can't have more war, she did say you can't have more free education or the best of health care.
It's really weird that the H camp has lost millions of votes over the last year. And I guess that has just driven so many of you into denial because, as you wrote: " "I'll (they'll) never vote for Shillary!" "
What a shame, she could have already won (2008) if not for her political stances and all those people who say "I'll never vote for Shillary!"
TMontoya
(369 posts)No one cares what you people do. Frankly the Democratic Party does not need nor does it want you bernie or bust types in our party.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)I have not decided for whom I am going to vote.
TMontoya
(369 posts)But when Hillary becomes the nominee as a Democrat you need to vote for her.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)it matters little what the "minority" party does.
I live in a red state. I have yet to vote in a general election where my vote "mattered".
Only if my state somehow becomes a swing state will it matter.
Response to TMontoya (Reply #7)
Name removed Message auto-removed
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)In other words, virtually non-existent.
So, not an 'interesting article......'
Coventina
(27,121 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Non-entity invented by sore losers who will fade with the spring flowers.
fluffyclouds
(51 posts)A lot of people at my work feel this way too. We're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)It have let the world know that you, as with most Bernie-ites, are political novices. The Bernie or Bust movement will be gone just as soon as the school year ends at colleges, as that is where most of his followers are. Why does he have so many rallies at those sites? Because he knows he is talking to the politically naive. A better thing to be raising hell about is why Bernie has not helped a single person running for the US Senate this fall. Not the first one, and only three people running for House seats. Democrats won't take the House back until maybe 2020 and more likely 2022. Bernie appears to be so naive himself that he thinks he can get the changes he talks about without the help of the US Senate.
HRC was given that money as speaking fees. Lots of people get fees for speaking to groups. They speak about their life experiences. The most interesting, the more they are paid. The more famous, the more they are paid. Rarely do they ever speak about the business the group may be affiliated with. Rarely. Bernie just doesn't seem to fit the mold of having done anything of interest in his life.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)What are the positions Bernie has taken that the next US. Senate would oppose?
Are you assuming a Democratic Senate majority or a Republican Senate majority?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hillary said a good floor is 12$ BECAUSE IT ALREADY HAS SUPPORT IN THE SENATE.
Not always the smartest thing to pull numbers out of your ass.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You actually claim: "Bernie just doesn't seem to fit the mold of having done anything of interest in his life. "
Which is utter denial of the millions of dollars people have contributed to his campaign. Such nonsense as yours has me me worried about some of you.
qdouble
(891 posts)No need to coddle the losing side.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)qdouble
(891 posts)it's just hilarious to see member's of the losing team constantly dictate how the winners must jump through hoops for their vote.
Some Bernie supporters seem to think every Democrat except Bernie is corrupt. If that's the case, either they aren't democrats or shouldn't be.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)loyalties to the point that the issues get lost in the noise.
That's why I found this particular article interesting, as it seemed to articulate why the "Bernie or Bust" crowd feels as it does.
Most of the time, it just seems like personal attacks on one candidate or the other.
Meteor Man
(385 posts)The question is not whether or not Bernie can dictate terms if Hillary wins the nomination.
The question is whether or not Hillary and the DNC are interested in getting the votes of Bernie supporters.
Bernie does not own anybody's vote. Without concessions on the platform Bernie's supporters will have several options available to voice their disagreement with the path the DNC has taken the party down.
The defection rate could be anywhere between 25-50%. If Hillary and DWS continue on the take it or leave it path, the percentage will be on the high end. If Bernie is allowed a role in forming the platform, the percentage will be on the low end.
Time will tell.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Coventina
(27,121 posts)It wasn't timed for that on my end, it was just the way my personal life and interests were at the time.
In hindsight, I'm pretty glad I wasn't around for all that.
I know I sound like a real DU geezer, but, DU was way nicer when we were fighting a common enemy, GWB.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Giving America bush-cheney....blood is on their hands as they knowing not voted for Gore because their principles were more important than caring for America...
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Coventina
(27,121 posts)by Bushco.
dubyadiprecession
(5,714 posts)There is no path to win for a candidate that has always been trailing in the popular vote, pledged delegates and now.... in superdelegates.
Winning 1 out of 5 this late. after claiming momentum is on his side, is just plain sad.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)support the party nominee after she gets the nomination. Which is a certainty right now.
Clinton has wiped the floor with Sanders, all the while not rubbing in that he is a first class kook, which the Republicans would certainly not hesitate to do. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/polls_say_bernie_is_more_electable_than_hillary_don_t_believe_them.html
Clinton will absolutely destroy Trump in the general. And I will personally accept responsibility if she does not. She will wipe Trump off the map, take back the Senate, and get huge leads in the house. She will attract Republicans from the Republican party to the Democratic Party. And she will appoint liberals (not socialists) to the courts.
Sanders will do none of these things. Because he isn't ever getting elected as President, nor nominated. He is toast and finished.
As you are unwilling to abide by the majority vote (overwhelming majority, but that doesn't matter), start your own little "socialist" party where the popular with the in people and losing candidates can take over. But do leave our party. Please. You are not a Democrat. You are a Socialist. Imposing the will of a small minority on the majority. Shame on you.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)But, just out of curiosity, what does "I will personally accept responsibility" mean, exactly?
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)I will admit that it is my fault for not doing enough to promote her. No blaming it on Sanders (or anyone else), but accepting my part as a citizen who can donate and walk precincts.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)and the Presidency of George W. Bush. I did not do enough to stop them.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)tumbling out...and it will be ugly. She is a horribly weak candidate.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)will be trotted out.