2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTroubled by Hillary's response to question about adopting some of Bernie's agenda
Last edited Tue Apr 26, 2016, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)
I saw a video here somewhere, cant find it now.
She was asked about the popularity of Bernie and his ideas and would she work with him on some of that and her answer was very disappointing.
Along the lines of she got more votes so why should she.
Obviously anybody with a brain or heart who alleges they are liberal has to vote for her if Bernie loses, but this response of hers was not only arrogant but she lost the perfect chance to bring us all together.
Too bad.
I am editing this, I should have mentioned Bernie didnt help matters by saying he has conditions on his support...
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)She showed us who she was years ago.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I think she is put off by how hard this has been, expected a cake walk, and has an attitude about it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)It's her sense of entitlement, and nothing else matters.
I expect no concessions from the neo-liberal corporate agenda for the next four years.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)To PoC issues, but Hillary is being tone-deaf to almost half of the democratic electorate.
Really poor judgement, but hey, she seems to be really good at that.
PufPuf23
(8,785 posts)The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is more a threat to the current neo-liberal Democratic party establishment than the more moderate GOP.
I think that they want us to give up and leave the Party and I for one intend to be a burr rather than leave.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)"Senator Sanders has run a great and inspiring campaign and it's clear that he has a lot of enthusiastic supporters. I look forward to meeting with him and to finding some common ground. I'm confident that we see eye to eye on a great many issues."
But instead she basically said
Nyah! Nyah!
Kall
(615 posts)It certainly didn't surprise me.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm no kind of politician, but I sure could have crafted a better response.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)n/t
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)but at least the loser has some kind of excuse, however poor. If Hillary really thinks she's got it locked up, she not only can afford to be gracious, it would be in her best interest.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)dchill
(38,502 posts)Just sayin'.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)She snaps in the video and has a fit over the fact she has not won yet. I think she is annoyed that last election she held fast until June, so saying any less would be a hypocrite.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)After that question, that was it. What's the point? If there was a shred of any hope remaining there, she lost us both in that response.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)She has contempt for Bernie and for us. She doesn't want unity because she doesn't think she needs us.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)I start to think I can force myself to vote for her if I must, she pulls some shit like this...
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)She's bragging just like a man would do. So inappropriate.
Because we KNOW that if Bernie was the winner, of course he'd compromise his cherished positions to get Hillary supporters on board.
No, that's the LAST thing Bernie would do and it's unfair and sexist to expect Hillary to do what no male nominee has ever been expected to do.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)But he's a guy so that's allowed.
Not when the woman does it. Then it's over-the-top.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)lets see if they are puppets or if they are conservative republicans or if they are "progressives - they can be progressives like Hillary - not so much, or they can be real progressives that does not want to go back to the 1950's
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)That's how it works in the real world.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)we are not talking about a dictatorship here.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)are her delegates and not his.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)just to get Hillary's support?
His supporters would be outraged if he did that.
choie
(4,111 posts)in the race. She believes she is owed this nomination- how dare Democrats question her! And to say she graciously dropped out of the 2008 race is absurd - she only dropped out after the last to primary when it was obvious she had lost. As for not asking Obama for anything in return for her support - how do we know that Clinton's nomination for Sec of State wasn't Quid Pro Quo?
I can't read her mind, of course, but I believe she is extremely annoyed and can't or won't hide it, even when her pique works to her own detriment.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)But the difference is that Hillary and Obama had the class to work all that out behind the scenes.
choie
(4,111 posts)Bernie can't be bought with a cabinet position.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)he's losing this election and I'm thoroughly elated with that fact.
Oh, kudos to a 17 point lead in Pennsylvania. That's a great win in delegates. Bernie's got a similar breakdown in Rhode Island but that's 33 delegates versus Pennsylvania's 118.
And let's see, Maryland, Delaware.
Sanders got that postage stamp known as Rhode Island, and, well, I guess he's got a 3 point lead Connecticut but with only 27% reporting so that could change.
I think he'll probably drop out this week.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)when the asserter is a woman.
840high
(17,196 posts)Warren is assertive. Clinton - nah.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)That's part of what's so attractive about her, to people who can't stand to seem ambition in women.
840high
(17,196 posts)ready to run. One day she will and I'll support her.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And Bernie is the oldest person to run ever. There's no reason to think Elizabeth will want to follow in his footsteps.
840high
(17,196 posts)always liked you.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I would be happy to have Elizabeth as anyone's VP -- though I'm not sure she'd want even that.
choie
(4,111 posts)That's a canard - she has, since she was senator from NY, expected to be crowned the Democratic nominee. And the fact that another Dem is questioning her candidacy is galling to her. It's her character not her gender that defines her and my distaste for her.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)most pledged delegates, by far, and it's time certain people got that though their thick heads.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)decided to run against her. How dare he!
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)And way for the person presenting this to completely shift attention from what was actually being asked ... an entire platform change ... to just a few positions changed. Frankly, Rachel did the same thing with her "some of" comment. Bernie basically wants her to become Bernie. Why should she? She's winning on the strength of her ideas.
MsFlorida
(488 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #14)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #64)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #70)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)conclusion, then decide if you will be part of the solution or the problem.
I wish Bernie was winning, he isnt, so I have to deal with that.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)But I'm through with the DLC, Third Way, neo-Dem corporate crowd.
She doesn't need me - She has Wall Steet.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)I thought that was a term usual reserved for Ms. Lewinsky.
Either way, why should we cry over milk we never had in the fridge? You were never going to vote for her anyway so repeating it endlessly isn't really going to change how we feel about it. We're winning.
840high
(17,196 posts)is a good woman.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Well we all have our opinions.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)When asked whether he would encourage his supporters to vote for her, Bernie said that she would need to ask his supporters herself. He said it is her responsibility to ask his supporters for their vote. He then proceeded to give a laundry list of things that he would need to hear from her as part of her Platform in order to earn his vote, and surprise, surprise, it was an entire laundry list of everything that he has been running on this entire campaign.
Clinton during her Town Hall, when asked about it, stated that when she endorsed Sen Obama, she didn't give him a laundry list of things that he had to do in order to secure her vote. Likewise, she asked her supporters to vote for him with no conditions attached to that.
In my 40 years of following politics, I've never heard of a candidate doing what Bernie did, by tell Chris Hayes during the Town Hall that Hillary would literally have to accept his entire agenda as part of her agenda in order to gain his support, and then she herself would have to ask his supporters to support her and convince them that she was worthy of their vote.t This after he has spent the last 8 months telling them that she was the spawn of Satan.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)how touchy and almost childish many of them are acting about this, you have to give a different answer.
You have to pivot, tell them what they want to hear, politicians do it all the time.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to get Hillary's support?
No way in hell, and his supporters would be furious if he did so.
We know what Hillary would do if she were the loser, because we saw what she did when Obama beat her. She graciously conceded defeat and went on to work extremely hard for him throughout the remainder of the campaign.
And that's what Bernie should do -- not be a sore loser.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #52)
Name removed Message auto-removed
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And a recent poll among millennials shows that millennials will strongly back her against Trump.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)This is the best summation of the situation I've seen yet. You should make it an OP.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)not wanting more war that has never worked or not wanting Social security privatized to "save it) and a nice windfall for wall street. Not believing it works in asking business to behave itself instead of regulating it. not believing the best we can do is ACA. Not thinking charter schools are the answer to school issues.
Hillary could have asked her supporters to support Obama, but they made up their own minds. She should at least realize the same should happen with her, - not we can't doesn't cut it and swinging to the right in the GE will not please a lot of people, she needs to decide if she wants to be a republican or not.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The Wall st. speeches with no preparation to deal with the inevitably demanded transparency, "dead broke" comment, sniper fire in Bosnia, chewing out a Greenpeace activist, etc etc reveal a lack of foresight, self awareness, or both.
So far the campaign seems to manage by holding staged events. She does not do well when caught off guard and that is a very big problem for any politician to have.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)When a) she already had plenty of money and b) she knew darn well she'd be running for president, strike me as pretty poor judgment. I will allow that the political climate was much different then, though.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)The maniacal laughter won't get her out of every scrape.
https://m.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)which hasn't even been done yet, but is likely.
It's another thing to gloat. It's still another thing to ignore the wide swath of Democratic voters who are all too eager to vote for a Democrat if they can be assured they will act like one. And I mean on monetary policy, not just social issues.
Hillary could reach out to the populace, energized and ready to vote for the right candidate, or she can sock it to them as usual. Say, "you've got nowhere else to go". Shit like that.
That's the kind of treatment I expect. I truly hope that she and her supporters could surprise me.
Look, if you win, you can afford to be magnanimous. Try it on. It's got a much better long-lasting, sweeter taste than vengeance, retribution, exclusion, snobbery, and all that trash.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)The major reason so many people love Bernie is his consistent adherence to principles that he holds dear, and that they hold dear as well. Being a loyal member of a political party, no matter what bullshit they pull, is not one of them.
It's a pretty big request to ask him to forego his total values in order to just step in line and be a party faithful. He is righteously, in many peoples eyes, leading a movement that is really trying to stand for something.
What's the hurt in embracing his movement and making it seem welcome. Frankly, those of us who are in it are perplexed why it isn't an automatic like for the Democratic Party. His positions are basically the Liberal policies that once made the Democratic Party the majority party for DECADES!!!
Running for President is always a maturing, growing experience. Let's say that Bernie, for all his principles, hasn't or doesn't grow his electorate enough. I sincerely hope that Hillary Clinton grows as a politician and a leader, particular of the DEMOCRATIC Party by including it's Left Wing and barely Left elements, along with all the Independents and Republicans who basically hold the same Populist views.
There are many here, Clinton supporters too, who don't think she can do that.
I think that she can and that she must, if she wants to win and truly lead the nation in the direction that is truly for the common good we all seek.
That is just one more way to show she is the bigger person, the better person to lead us, one and all. And that is the best and sweetest way to energize and unify the Democratic Party.
And then also we won't have to cry these:
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Not a good sign of a person's maturity or character, though.
I dont want to believe that about Hillary.
I want to believe she is human, she is therefore susceptible to copping an attitude when annoyed and stressed, Bernie did the same thing when he said there were conditions to his support, he did NOT need to do that either.
They are tired, annoyed, both of them.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)come to represent all of those who choose to represent as Democrats, and that would include the Leftier leaning folks on money issues.
I'm not sure at all it can be done. I'm not sure it's in her nature. I'm not sure she isn't bought and sold by Wall Street. I'm willing to wait and see. But it sure would make things a lot easier if we all were truly more on the same page. Reassuring the very energized Bernie base that they have a place in this Democratic coalition would surely be a great thing.
That is what I believe Bernie wants, more than riches or fame or a place of power inside the government. That is what I believe he'll try to bring home for all the people he has admittedly inspired. I believe he feels that much is his duty. To those people, to the U.S., and to the Democratic Party which once for decades was the majority party. (this was back when they were way more Liberal than today, as I'm sure you know)
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html
I would love to be behind that Hillary, even more seasoned and wiser by fully appreciating the results of this race and the true inspiration that is in at least some of Bernie's policies. I'm hoping against hope for Hillary to step into that mantle. Can you imagine her as a female FDR? I can. But it's going to take some changing to do it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)putting the people in the front of this, not the process or herself.
I plan on voting for her in November if she is the nominee, hell if she is the nominee I plan on giving her money and campaigning for her.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)dgauss
(882 posts)I don't expect her to adopt any of Bernie's agenda if elected, but I would expect her to say she would. Maybe she was a little caught off guard.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)msongs
(67,413 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)politicians have advocated for what Bernie is advocating for, surely nobody famous or effective.
FDR, but he is dead.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)was that Bernie said he would only give his support to her if she adopted some of his ideas. She said she does NOT have to incorporate his agenda, and that she is the one winning. She also says she made NO DEMANDS on Obama when she supported him.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Now, I am sorry that Bernie made demands and he did, I think that was wrong.
But, I think she could have come out on top of all this by taking the higher road.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)hopefully she continues in that vein for the duration
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Why should she grovel for the support of Sanders supporters who say they hate her, call her every name in the book, and insist they wouldn't vote for her no matter what?
She's winning. She should stick to her own platform.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is assuming (considering how poorly she seems to respond to stress) she can make it through a general election campaign.
Bernie has refrained from personal and negative ads. He is a gentleman in every sense of the world. And look at Hillary. She can't take the pressure.
I do not want Hillary's finger on the nuclear trigger. She is unstable and angry.
Whew! I'm a Bernie supporter, a woman, and I do not trust Hillary.
That question was a giveaway, and she was supposed to respond with a conciliatory answer. That's how candidates make the transition from the primary to the general election.
Hillary was utterly spitting in the faces of Bernie supporters with her words.
Yet again another example of Hillary showing what a bad candidate she is.
Hillary lacks common sense, good judgment and social skills. No wonder she had marital problems. (I've been married 53 years to the same and and I am a woman. I know a lot about marriage. There are times when you bite your tongue and are gracious. Apparently Hillary doesn't know how to do that.) Shame on Hillary.
Very bad answer. Offensive. She will regret what she said.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Svafa
(594 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She is not a nice person. She is self-centered, lacks compassion and respect for others.
And she does not handle stress well. If running against Bernie makes her so nervous that she answers angrily to such a question (which was obviously intended to give her a chance to unite the party), how in the world is she going to handle a campaign against Trump, Cruz or Kasich.
Bernie has not done personally negative campaigning. The Republicans will.
Hillary does not deal with stress well. She loses her temper when she is tired and anxious and stressed out.
This is not good.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)A normal person would have buckled and bad by now.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)agenda? For example, more hawkishness, no big tax increases, no single payer, etc. How do you think Sanders would react? How do you think his supporters would feel if Bernie won the election, but then he decided to shift over to some of the hated "Third Way" policies?
I'd guess that neither Bernie nor his supporters would want any part of that. I think they would say, no we had an election, and we voted for Bernie and his agenda, not Hillary's agenda.
Now reverse Clinton and Sanders.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)opportunity to win some trust and affection from Bernie supporters.
She completely messed up.
She is an arrogant fool. A lot of Bernie supporters will never vote for her. That answer will be played and replayed on YouTube and will come back to haunt her.
I can think of lots of ways she could have answered that would have please both her supporters and Bernie's supporters.
It was an opportunity for her to show graciousness to Bernie Supporters. Instead, she gave us the backside of her . . . . .
Ugly!
She does not have the nature of a diplomat. Thank heavens that she is no longer in the State Department.
Wow! That was a bad answer.
That was the worst answer I can think of in a pre-election debate or town hall in many, many years, many, many elections.
It was really a bad answer.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)DirtyHippyBastard
(217 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)And honestly, it is not even compromise as she is just as conservative.
DINO
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)And if she said anything else, I wouldn't expect her to fulfill her promises. She is not going to pay homage to any of Bernie's priorities once the nomination is secured.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Maybe Trump got into this to make sure he did it up good and thereby making many Republicans vote for her too to make sure this time she won. Like covering all bases. He is a good salesman.
amborin
(16,631 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If we've nominated someone whose ego won't allow her to graciously welcome fully half of the Democratic party to her campaign, then we deserve what we get.
"No, fuck you, I got more votes losers"... I dunno if her supporters emulate the behavior of the candidate or the candidate models the behavior that her supporters demand of "a winner".
Winning isn't enough for them. They demand prostration of their vanquished foes.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)... she didn't place all these conditions on Obama. Like a candidate with class, Obama likely offered her a cabinet position as a way of reaching out, but neither made that a public spectacle. That he's making all these public demands is just classless, especially given that he's losing to Hillary by way more numbers than she lost to Obama.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)It's more comprehensive, detailed, and thorough.
Sorry, but it is. It is no less "progressive" than Senator Sanders' agenda. (I know that makes heads explode, but I haven't seen anything that proves otherwise.)
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Always ask for a person's vote. Always.