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Eugene

(61,939 posts)
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:40 PM May 2016

Officials: Scant evidence that Clinton had malicious intent in handling of emails

Source: Washington Post

Officials: Scant evidence that Clinton had malicious intent in handling of emails

By Matt Zapotosky May 5 at 3:36 PM

Prosecutors and FBI agents investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email server have so far found scant evidence that the leading Democratic presidential candidate intended to break classification rules, though they are still probing the case aggressively with an eye on interviewing Clinton herself, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

FBI agents on the case have been joined by federal prosecutors from the same office that successfully prosecuted 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui — and who would handle any Edward Snowden case, should he ever return to the country, according to the U.S. officials familiar with the matter. And in recent weeks, prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Virginia and their FBI counterparts have been interviewing top Clinton aides as they seek to bring the case to a close.

CNN reported Thursday that longtime Clinton aide Huma Abedin was among those interviewed. A lawyer for Abedin did not immediately return an email seeking comment.

The involvement of the U.S. Attorney’s Office is not indicative that charges are imminent or even likely. One official said prosecutors are wrestling with the question of whether Clinton intended to violate the rules, and so far, the evidence seemed to indicate she did not.

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Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/federal-prosecutors-in-virginia-assisting-in-clinton-email-probe/2016/05/05/f0277faa-12f0-11e6-81b4-581a5c4c42df_story.html
63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Officials: Scant evidence that Clinton had malicious intent in handling of emails (Original Post) Eugene May 2016 OP
I have already seen the meme, like BP didnt intentionally pollute the ocean and kill those people Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #1
The two cases are not comparable in law courts The Second Stone May 2016 #7
Again, not me saying it that is why I used the word MEME Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #16
My apologies. The Second Stone May 2016 #32
What criminal law are you suggesting Hillary broke? nt pnwmom May 2016 #13
meme == not me saying it...others here on DU, the ones who hate Hillary and may work Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #15
Sorry, Jackie, I misunderstood. nt pnwmom May 2016 #23
Yes, indeed there are. notadmblnd May 2016 #54
Scant evidence of what the investigation even entails, so...there is nothing new. She is silvershadow May 2016 #2
This new war of government leaks is entertaining though. Barack_America May 2016 #49
"Intelligence Community IG did not make a criminal referral- it was a security referral Bill USA May 2016 #52
This is going to disappoint a lot of people and I will bask in their disappointment DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #3
Is intent a requirement or is incompetence enough? EndElectoral May 2016 #4
IMHO....intent = Jail, incompetence = unemployment. yourout May 2016 #6
Intent is a requirement in this case. pnwmom May 2016 #14
Intent is critical if you are talking about anything illegal. DCBob May 2016 #37
And, they would have interviewed her staff... scscholar May 2016 #5
they did grasswire May 2016 #10
Maybe you missed the "scant evidence" part scscholar May 2016 #12
Wapo simply says that TM99 May 2016 #27
From the article: "the evidence seemed to indicate that she did not" intend to violate the rules. pnwmom May 2016 #19
How did she think her employer was going to respond to a FOIA if she kept her work emails at home? Ash_F May 2016 #8
Most of her emails were between her and staff members and were stored on the .gov system. pnwmom May 2016 #21
Even when the St Dept was asked by a federal judge to produce any emails it had NWCorona May 2016 #45
That is not how that works that material should always be with the Federal Government. Ash_F May 2016 #62
hmm... chervilant May 2016 #9
the comments section is interesting and lively nt grasswire May 2016 #11
Can't view the comments pmorlan1 May 2016 #33
Let's ignore the fact that all citizens, even Hillary, are legally presumed innocent. pnwmom May 2016 #22
I agree with you there. Innocent until proven guilty. nt NWCorona May 2016 #46
Intent? Who gives a shit? Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #17
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #29
This is hyperbolic nonsense angrychair May 2016 #18
They have to keep those waters muddy. bobbobbins01 May 2016 #35
That's always been the case. Unfortunately, there are other factors. pat_k May 2016 #20
There is no prerequisite for malicious intent in breaking the law. nt NorthCarolina May 2016 #24
it never even occurred to me that she might have had malicious *intent* renate May 2016 #25
Great article-thank you for posting Gothmog May 2016 #26
Duh Dem2 May 2016 #28
There's no THERE there. MFM008 May 2016 #30
This level of silly nonsense might kill people yourpaljoey May 2016 #31
Not surprising at all. DCBob May 2016 #34
Sorry, but very much doubt it. This is Obama admin coming to Hill's rescue... Barack_America May 2016 #47
It might as well be over. DCBob May 2016 #48
Isn't there a saying about being promoted up to the level of your incompetence? bobbobbins01 May 2016 #36
Mmph! bvf May 2016 #38
I can't believe... Mike Nelson May 2016 #39
I have no idea either way. TimPlo May 2016 #42
Surely these officials remember the John Deutch case Holly_Hobby May 2016 #40
or Sandy Berger MisterP May 2016 #60
So true n/t Holly_Hobby May 2016 #61
The Article never said who actually said what TimPlo May 2016 #41
You are parsing meaning that isn't there, to meet your own agenda Tarc May 2016 #44
Please stop with the petty crap. TimPlo May 2016 #50
Anyone can plainly see that the "officials" in question refers to actual investigators Tarc May 2016 #51
Why did they not say it then? TimPlo May 2016 #55
Unnamed source angrychair May 2016 #57
Just simple common sense, is all Tarc May 2016 #58
That is a large nail in the 18 U.S. Code § 793 coffin Tarc May 2016 #43
"Scant" means a shitload, right? zappaman May 2016 #53
People on this thread are so fucking sure she is innocent catnhatnh May 2016 #56
It's the silly prank defense. "Hey, I was just foolin' around when I spray painted your dog." Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #59
And the last shining hope for the Trump/Sanders fans in the "Not Hillary" party fades away. baldguy May 2016 #63

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
1. I have already seen the meme, like BP didnt intentionally pollute the ocean and kill those people
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:42 PM
May 2016

but still guilty, right?

Lets face it, there are a lot of republicans posting on DU pretending to be something else

LOTS

MEME = others saying this, the Hillary haters, the GOP, etc.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
7. The two cases are not comparable in law courts
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:50 PM
May 2016

and even a lay person should know that. The Scooter Libby case would be an apt comparison. Or the theoretical cases against Colin Powell or Condilezza Rice for similar email set ups.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
2. Scant evidence of what the investigation even entails, so...there is nothing new. She is
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016

still under investigation.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
49. This new war of government leaks is entertaining though.
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:17 PM
May 2016

This "nothing to see" leak is probably coming from the Obama admin, in response to the FBI leak of interviewing Hillary's aides.

Who do you think we'll hear from next? Grassley or a fresh round of FBI leaks?

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
52. "Intelligence Community IG did not make a criminal referral- it was a security referral
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:24 PM
May 2016

... made for counterintelligence purposes."


https://oig.state.gov/system/files/statement_of_the_icig_and_oig_regarding_review_of_clintons_emails_july_24_2015.pdf

An important distinction is that the IC IG did not make a criminal referral- it was a security referral made for counterintelligence purposes. The IC IG is statutorily required to refer potential compromises of national security information to the appropriate IC security officials.




DemocratSinceBirth

(99,711 posts)
3. This is going to disappoint a lot of people and I will bask in their disappointment
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016

If this has garnered me the enmity of those people it is one of the proudest amount of my life.

yourout

(7,532 posts)
6. IMHO....intent = Jail, incompetence = unemployment.
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:49 PM
May 2016

Either way she should be only allowed in the White House with a tour group.

pnwmom

(108,991 posts)
14. Intent is a requirement in this case.
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:56 PM
May 2016

You might be interested in this:


http://prospect.org/article/why-hillary-wont-be-indicted-and-shouldnt-be-objective-legal-analysis

Why Hillary Won't Be Indicted and Shouldn't Be: An Objective Legal Analysis

There is no reason to think that Clinton committed any crimes with respect to the use of her email server.

By Richard O. Lempert, Professor of Law, University of Michigan

What follows reflects the knowledge and experience I have gained from working at the Department of Homeland Security from 2008 until 2011. While there, I took the lead in drafting a security classification manual for one of the divisions of the DHS science and technology directorate. In this discussion, I offer answers to questions about the former secretary of state’s email that have not been frequently asked, but should be.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
27. Wapo simply says that
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:15 PM
May 2016

they have found scant evidence.

From whom? What are their sources? This is speculative opinion being passed off as news.

Obama, Lynch, and others are not commenting on facts. Period.

pnwmom

(108,991 posts)
19. From the article: "the evidence seemed to indicate that she did not" intend to violate the rules.
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:02 PM
May 2016
The involvement of the U.S. Attorney’s Office is not indicative that charges are imminent or even likely. One official said prosecutors are wrestling with the question of whether Clinton intended to violate the rules, and so far, the evidence seemed to indicate she did not.

pnwmom

(108,991 posts)
21. Most of her emails were between her and staff members and were stored on the .gov system.
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:03 PM
May 2016

The rest, she could produce when requested -- as she did.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
45. Even when the St Dept was asked by a federal judge to produce any emails it had
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:07 PM
May 2016

They didn't even bother looking in other .Gov email accounts for any emails Hillary might have sent out.

One of the reasons discovery was granted.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
9. hmm...
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:53 PM
May 2016
"...scant evidence that the leading Democratic presidential candidate intended to break classification rules..."


"...involvement of the U.S. Attorney’s Office is not indicative that charges are imminent or even likely."




No, WAPO--you sycophants for the 0.1%--let's just ignore the fact that Hi11ary is being investigated.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
33. Can't view the comments
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:35 PM
May 2016

I tried several times to view the comment section but I can't view them for some reason. Anything interesting?

pnwmom

(108,991 posts)
22. Let's ignore the fact that all citizens, even Hillary, are legally presumed innocent.
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:04 PM
May 2016

Even if haters just gotta hate.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
17. Intent? Who gives a shit?
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:01 PM
May 2016

Laws were either broken or they weren't. Her intent is irrelevant, save perhaps during sentencing.

Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #17)

angrychair

(8,733 posts)
18. This is hyperbolic nonsense
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:01 PM
May 2016

There would never be an official statement regarding an active investigation. So file this under yet another "opinion" article that conveniently uses "unnamed sources".

I will live with the final determination of the FBI and Justice Dept. but I am not going to entertain agenda driven horseshit.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
20. That's always been the case. Unfortunately, there are other factors.
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:02 PM
May 2016

The likelihood of an indictment is not zero. The chances may be tiny, but factors other than intent may come into play.

Nathan Sales, an associate law professor at Syracuse University, disagrees with Lowell's and others' assessment. "Many scholars and lawyers think it's unlikely. I'm actually kind of in the minority on this," Sales says. "But, based on what we do know so far, I think there is a not insignificant chance that a grand jury could look at the facts and say, 'Actually, she may have violated various laws protecting classified information.'"

Sales points to the Petraeus case in particular, noting that the former CIA head did not, in the end, plead guilty to charges related to sharing classified information with his mistress and biographer, but rather to those related to him keeping the information in a desk drawer inside his home. "The conduct that is being investigated [in Clinton's case] — keeping the documents on an unclassified server — that's kind of the digital equivalent of locking it in your desk drawer, which is ultimately what did in General Petraeus," he says.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/what-should-we-make-of-the-hillary-clinton-indictment-speculation-20160503#ixzz47pDlWWxL

renate

(13,776 posts)
25. it never even occurred to me that she might have had malicious *intent*
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:11 PM
May 2016

Never crossed my mind. That just seems beyond absurd to me.

She knew she'd be running for President again. I don't think she would have deliberately done anything that could have raised questions in 2016, which is why I've always assumed that this server business is not her fault but the fault (intentional or not) of whoever set the thing up. She's not an IT professional and someone of her generation who doesn't know computers probably wouldn't even have known what questions to ask.

I've always thought that, while this looks bad, she wouldn't have deliberately skirted the law, and now that she is almost certainly going to be Trump's opponent I genuinely hope that this turns out to be less than what has been reported. I've always supported Bernie and will always prefer him, but I don't want to watch Trump become the most powerful person in the world. (Ye gods, it just sunk in that that is truly an actual, albeit remote, possibility. What a prospect.)

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
47. Sorry, but very much doubt it. This is Obama admin coming to Hill's rescue...
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:14 PM
May 2016

...again. In response to the recent FBI leaks about aide interviews and the Guccifer story.

I'm sure we'll have a fresh set of contradictory FBI leaks soon.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
36. Isn't there a saying about being promoted up to the level of your incompetence?
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:41 PM
May 2016

I guess secretary of state is as far as she goes.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
38. Mmph!
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:43 PM
May 2016
...though they are still probing the case aggressively with an eye on interviewing Clinton herself, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.


Emphasis mine.

Mike Nelson

(9,966 posts)
39. I can't believe...
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:47 PM
May 2016

...so many people still have orgasms over Hillary's email "scandal" story. Nothing will come of it.

 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
42. I have no idea either way.
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:59 PM
May 2016

And if you do I'd be careful as discussing the case you are working on is most likely not something a FBI agent would want to do. Even more so with such a Highly powerful vindictive person of interest.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
40. Surely these officials remember the John Deutch case
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:48 PM
May 2016

I'm sure Hillary remembers too.

Bill pardoned CIA Director Deutch on his last day in office for having classified information on his home computers, just before he took a plea deal. Guess what else? He also used the same computers for personal and classified information. Look it up.

 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
41. The Article never said who actually said what
Thu May 5, 2016, 07:57 PM
May 2016

"according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter." seems to be a very broad meaning. and being familiar with the matter would include someone that use to work for Clinton. If it came from someone working on the case they would said someone familiar with case. But they said someone familiar with the matter. Basically they could of talk to guy who defended Petraeus in his case. He would be familiar with someone being malicious or not. This article is about as hard evidence as the Fox interview of that Hacker. So why take WaPo at face value when you don't take that other article on the issue.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
44. You are parsing meaning that isn't there, to meet your own agenda
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:07 PM
May 2016

We call that "conformation bias". Read the actual sources on the matter;

Prosecutors and FBI agents investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email server have so far found scant evidence that the leading Democratic presidential candidate intended to break classification rules, though they are still probing the case aggressively with an eye on interviewing Clinton herself, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/federal-prosecutors-in-virginia-assisting-in-clinton-email-probe/2016/05/05/f0277faa-12f0-11e6-81b4-581a5c4c42df_story.html


Underlined for your convenience.
 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
50. Please stop with the petty crap.
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:20 PM
May 2016

You are underlining parts of that comment and are just focusing on that as it is proof. But whole comment including parts you underlined was said by "U.S. officials familiar with the matter." Which could mean anything. Try and spin this all you want it does not change what they printed on in the article. Who is source I am saying. a US Official could be anyone working for State Dept that actually does not know about case. And you are one guilty of "conformation bias" because I don't think this article proves one way other anything about her email other than some random person said something and we have no idea who or what he/she is.

And I have never thought she did it malicious intent. Even if she was doing it to keep them close in order to keep others from seeing some damaging email that is not a malicious intent.(an "intentional" wrongful act against someone without a justified excuse)

", according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
" So some U.S Official said it. But what official we have not idea if he/she actually knows. You are one taking it at face value I am not. I will wait and see what the FBI says when it is time. Anything else is just people guessing.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
51. Anyone can plainly see that the "officials" in question refers to actual investigators
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:23 PM
May 2016

i.e. the Dep't of Justice. A reasonable individual would not read into tis that the Washington Post is relying on info from Clinton insiders.

 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
55. Why did they not say it then?
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:29 PM
May 2016

You are one reading into it. If it was a Dept of Justice why is the source not cited as US Official from Dept of Justice. If it was then someone at WaPo needs to learn a bit about how to cite a source. If something is written one way and you have to explain that oh no it actually means this then you are one reading into it.

angrychair

(8,733 posts)
57. Unnamed source
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:41 PM
May 2016

I have it, on good authority, that it is the 2nd floor janitor's dogwalkers sister. It's ironclad.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
58. Just simple common sense, is all
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

This is a big dent in the zeal to see Clinton indicted, and you're trying to salvage whatever you can from this turn of events. I get that, but no one's buying it.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
56. People on this thread are so fucking sure she is innocent
Thu May 5, 2016, 08:37 PM
May 2016

they had to alert on and then block a political cartoon that would look completely normal in n2doc's morning line-up. The poster might just as well have drawn a picture of that other "prophet" where zealots post, because they took a 6-1 hide.

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