She is very talented.

Neither are the millions dead, mutilated, homeless, dying at sea, starving, orphaned, having limbs blown off by cluster bombs, etc. etc. etc. due to her warhawkish decisions.

What's your point?? Are you one of the maimed and mutilated?

countries you mention.

Should the US just roll over after being attacked on sept 11?

which of those countries attacked on 9/11?

Nah ......... 14 of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, you know, the 'allies' she got weapons deals for to commit war crimes in Yemen with through her Foundation as SoS. Libya - going behind Obama's back using Blumenthal, banned by him, to use false information from while employing him through her Foundation to destroy yet another sovereign nation. Kagan - PNAC founder - an adviser, war-criminal fucking Kissinger! - a valued adviser. Iraq - well known to her since Bill's days of bombing and starving them through sanctions, killing with fly-overs - she knew as well as he, Bush, Cheney and all the other PNAC fans did exactly what their 'weapons of mass destruction capability were' before she stood up to persuade the public with her speech all for it. And on, and on and on.

No blood on her hands, eh?

Complete fucking bullshit.

Jeeze..some people must live in a giant ball of cotton candy...

I should have written more ................. a lot more, but I was just pissed seeing that claim and it came out fast.

Very well said. Even though you're mostly speaking to people with wax in their ears and ice in their hearts.

SAUDIS? From Saudi Arabia
Do you know where that is?

But we didn't bomb the living shit out of the Saudis. We bombed ....IRAQIS !!!! That is not the same place.

I'll wait.

Oh, and where's your star? Don't you support this site?

LOL

trying hard to be funny (they are, but you aren't ... so try harder). But, ice?? - I played hockey for three decades - still do - you wouldn't even keep up, believe me. The Admins will tell me when I've fallen through the ice, not you. Where's your star? Don't you support this site either??

You shouldn't be so upset/angry, whatever it is...

Watch this and I guarantee you will smile! it is fucking GREATNESS!

Somebody who knocks on your door for no reason whatsoever

so why do you?

person, have enough leisure time for sports?

that people from outside the U.S. are not allowed to post here.

Until then .....................


Where's your star, don't you support this site either?

i love your post....

and he wasn't lied to. He just did it because he likes war...until now when his supporters are grasping at anything to get Bern the nomination.
Nevermind the 98 Iraq Liberation Act, !999 Yugoslavia , Kosovo, military aid to Israel and Egypt , the support for Israel's attack on Gaza.
IF we forget ALL of those instances , he much less hawkish than Hillary!

that couldn't be changed inside the party?

The Sandersites have wild imaginations.

the least of your miss speakings here.

from The New York Times about Libya.

I linked to it in my original post, but here it is again: http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004216623/hillary-clintons-legacy-in-libya.html

What part do you agree with? What part do you disagree with? Please discuss.

The Clinton Bubble is alive and, well, still in Deep Denial.

And not the river!

...and Ida's OP presented several reasons. Hillary is a proven warmonger.

for a little more than one term and SoS for 4 years. That's not decades and it's not governing. Senators don't govern; they legislate. Cabinet secretaries don't govern; they carry out the policies of the president.

her support for a brutal right winger in Colombia: all those terrible decisions killed and wounded thousands of innocent victims and caused misery for millions

it'd be like standing outside in a downpour and not getting wet. "talent" only helps so much.

it's the nature of the job, very hard to get out of it with hands blood-free. whether this turns into an electoral disadvantage depends on how President Obama's foreign policy effectiveness is viewed domestically; unless there's a major terrorist attack on American soil in the fall, she can point to it as experience points and a job well done. otherwise... well, i'd rather not think about the alternative.

Trump drips bigotry, misogyny, racism, tells overt lies about creating coal jobs, he's a pathological liar, an ego maniac, a narcissist, a pandering fool who is on a power hungry grab. I could go on and on.

In your rush to hurt the presumptive DEM nominee, you lick the feet of Trump, like he is viable.

a couple of months, but then, you knew that. Here you go.

ETA:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

Real Clear Politics

Poll Date Sample MoE
Sanders (D)
Trump (R)
Spread
RCP Average 4/8 - 4/28 -- -- 51.6 38.0 Sanders +13.6
IBD/TIPP 4/22 - 4/28 814 RV 3.5 50 38 Sanders +12
USA Today/Suffolk 4/20 - 4/24 1000 LV 3.0 52 37 Sanders +15
GWU/Battleground 4/17 - 4/20 1000 LV 3.1 50 40 Sanders +10
FOX News 4/11 - 4/13 1021 RV 3.0 53 39 Sanders +14
CBS News 4/8 - 4/12 1098 RV 3.0 53 36 Sanders +17

Inconvenient facts. Independents like Bernie. Only the Dem Establishment fear him...as they should...because he's NOT One of Them...thankfully.

Let's see, the next rebuttal is that he has only been a Democrat (read within the current Third Way Democratic Corporate Wing) for a short time. That's why Liberal/Progressive Democrats love him.

since he is unlikely to win the nomination, he is also unlikely to ever get his creds properly displayed. Your numbers mean absolutely nothing

The baggage car will overflow with the latest dramas. She brings this crap on herself. It's called Accountability...and it's not the Progressive/Liberals fault.

Your hubris means absolutely nothing.

Big difference between a nominee and a President. Lots of time, lots of baggage yet to see the light of day, and yes...I hope it comes out sooner rather than later. Later has some difficult challenges.

Trump will eviscerate her. She is used to the Clinton Bubble where everyone enables her Royal Blood, kind of like DU. You can't put Trump on Ignore.

She is not charasmatic and she's not Teflon...both strengths of Bill Clinton. Like Reagan, Clinton could laugh things off. Sorry, but HRC doesn't have those talents. It doesn't take much to get her pointing fingers in someone's chest or laughing inappropriately.

All the polling data in the universe comparing Trump and Sanders is completely and totally meaningless.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

What you are really saying is that the Independent/Undecided voters are not relevant. Good luck with that ... it's around 1/3 of the voters.

Predicting American politics months from the actual GE is folly, but go ahead. And Bernie will be there to pick up the pieces to continue the Progressive Movement.

There is a lot to Ms. Clinton that is floating around out there. It may not cause the faithful in The Bubble concern, but there are about 2/3 of the voters (Dems and Indies) that are not enamored with her, let alone feel compelled to vote for her.

Looking at the reality of impeachment hearings from Day 1 from a lip-smacking Republican House ... is not a plus.

Any candidate running on both sides. Next.

She's a hawk. He isn't. And of course he voted to fund our troops. Just like Kennedy and every other decent congresscritter who voted against the IWR.

what they need to support these heroes. Now THAT is fucking sad and disgusting.

what about the blood on Bernie's hands?

"Think" about it.

Third, he continues to coddle their wants and desires when it comes to legislation.

That grade is likely their attempt to help him out.

I'd rather take a candidate launched by Bill than the NRA any day of the week.

for more waring.

or the source (since the MSM won't cover it), threaten with "your vote for Bernie is a vote for Trump." That's all they have. No one in their right mind can go through the list of her "achievements" and consider themselves a Democrat, let alone vote for her.

No thanks. Bernie beats Trump so that meme is worn out, tired, old, false, closed loop tape, et al. And he's going to stay in it, because at some point, there is some very bad news out there currently being either covered up or held for a more opportune time. And Joe Biden or any other Establishment "stand in" won't make it.

DailyKos quoting the Congressional Record, The New York Times, CommonDreams quoting Hillary's emails, the Global Policy Forum, and those crazy people using a camera at CBS News -- how much more "right wing whack job" could I get?



I have quite a few people in Ignore and can't see quite a few replies/sub threads as a result, so we shall see...

Thank you for your support!

I was a Sociology major and the behavior of the current Group Think is fascinating. I think more so now because of the enabling of social media. No wonder that's where Bernie is getting lots of support and is trending.

The majority of Americans are foward looking.

Those who insist on clinging to Bush's War are members of a dwindling support group.

she's the one in the driver's seat.

I have worked with women like Hillary. Hugs in the front. Knives in the back.

And I say, "Bullshit" in all sincerity.

the bloodshed the U.S. has wrongfully perpetrated over the years.

And the children...

All they have to do is cut off the clean water supply in some poor city like Flint Mich. The people in that city's
main concern will be finding a clean glass of water so they wont be voting or doing much else, trying to stay alive.
Once the worlds 1% gain control of all the water, its basically over for all of us. To say most Americans don't care of the lives of non-Americans is a valid point but it just goes so much deeper and its even worse than that. Youre statement on non-Americans rings true though. If youre in charge and you get a few people killed somewhere because of your actions, oh well, whats another 100k or so gonna matter. It seems to be the mindset of the worlds elite and wow does that have to change.

In 1988, U.S.S. Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 innocent people. Although most Americans have no knowledge or at best a distant recollection of this harrowing incident, just imagine how we would've fetishized it had the victims been our own citizens instead.

American University history Professor Peter Kuznick asks his students how many Vietnamese died in the Vietnam War. Most of them haven't a clue. And when they venture a guess, the total is often appallingly low, often just 10 percent of the actual total. The generally accepted casualty figure is 3.8 million people. Kuznick, who lost family in the Holocaust, wonders how we'd react if we heard that German college students thought that only 600,000 died in the Holocaust. We'd be justifiably appalled.

"Most Americans don't give a shit about spilling the blood of non-Americans." Fuck, most Americans don't even give a shit about spilling the blood of American servicemembers-- what's a little brown boy in the middle of the sandpit who just watched his parents get blown away in collateral damage inflicted by our warfighters? Or worse, by fucking Blackwater mercs?

They. Don't. Care.

Wait a minute, that's another one of your predictions that didn't happen. Darn.

Your comment is beneath contempt and spells out precisely what you are.

because that's pretty much all you've got.

Please see my post #22. Then comment. Please try and use adult language if you do.

Just when you thought Princess Weathervane's Ostrich Army couldn't sink lower than "BernieBros."

I think I have ten, actually...

In my defense, several are innocuous and the result of alert swarming (and nothing as heinous as "Bernazis&quot ...but I can't claim the high ground. This shitshow of a primary season, with the emergence of a genuine progressive contender being the sole redeeming quality, hasn't exactly brought out the best in us.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming major revamp of the alert/jurying system. Hopefully, some of the problems with the current system will be addressed.

omg

do you have a link to the thread about this upcoming revamp? thanks!

Life is so much more fun now that the gates of Azkaban have been thrown open.

I am now looking forward to new. new. rules

like yourself are thrown to the curb.

rather see Trump beat Clinton. The fact that this kind of thread can exist on a site called the "Democratic Underground" speaks to what a weak site this truly is.

Tell me how they got it so wrong for so long.

My Dad always said that profanity/potty mouth indicated a lack of vocabulary. Seems to fit...lots of angry people here who want to blame the weakness of their candidates on the other side.

Not taking the bait...just amused at all the frustrated profanity.

win to satisfy your blind hatred for Hillary. You would rather see a 6-3 Right leaning Supreme Court strike your basic rights down to satisfy your blind hatred for Hillary. That's the bottom line regarding the level of your foolishness.

Bernie Beats Trump. He'll do well with the SCOTUS picks...especially since his campaign has been about overturning Citizen's United.

So, can you think of some other pejoratives? Bring it. I can handle it. I have no one on ignore because the hostility and hysteria is amusing.

is a draft or there are Americans being killed in significant numbers. *That* was the lesson of Vietnam for the militarists, so we can have endless war with drones and an an "all-volunteer" (i.e., poor people's) army. I'm mean, Hillary referred to the sale of American weapons sales as an American job program and no one batted an eye.

That said, Trump is a classic narcissist, and not a very smart one at that. His schtick may have some appeal when directed at certain enemies, but his arrogrance and self-contradictions will overtake him in the long haul. What's more, it will be less appealing when directed at a woman, even one as tough as Hillary. There may no longer be an expectation of fairness, honesty or civility, but some voters still have some expectations of chivalry.

Can't wait

This is not an issue that the a erage voter doesn't care about.

Highly unlikely that the majority of voters will allow trump in the White House.

He's Palin in a suit, although far more dangerous. He's a fascist and racist.

Either of our candidates can and will defeat him. I want Bernie. I have no interest in enabling the Trump apocalypse. Nor do most voters.

I mistyped "rationale" and typed "while" when I meant to type "why." I think OP would have been hidden with a better alert.

At least from so-called "proud supporters" of her deed.

I hope Juror #3 actually watches the Trump video for the intended compare/contrast between the candidates.

Thank you for sharing, and thank you to the jury for participating in the process.

...this is why this forum needs to be shut down.

Carrying water for Trump with this phony version of his views on Iraq pretty much exposes this for what it is. Sanders has no chance in this election so you're basically campaigning here for Trump over Hillary. It's that simple.

...unless it's from "wherever."

She's acceptable to most Dems, and most Republicans like hawks just fine.

Considering the pro-Trump supporters who cheer loudly whenever dissenting voices get bludgeoned at rallies...

Fingers crossed!

Please view this thread for my reply: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280190694

If you really weren't insulting me in such a fashion, please accept my apologies for thinking you were one of those types of people.

Hallelujah!

Speaking of foreign policy and Hillary's love affair with the fossil fuel industry, what really galled me in the 2008 campaign was the way she browbeat the Iraqis for not speedily adopting the notorious hydrocarbon law. What most Americans didn't realize is that the law essentially meant surrendering that country's oil to foreign corporations.

It was like badgering Jack Woltz for not casting Johnny Fontane. Of course, in the end, both Woltz and the new Iraqi government made the right decision.

She will, if we're stupid enough to nominate her, lose to Trump.

But for the fact that our party leadership is made of of the same types of 1%ers as the GOP we wouldn't even be talking about Hillary.

Democrats don't support her actual war or trade policies, most just don't know the truth behind them.

and we know he is influenced by lobbyists. If you only listen to Sanders then you are not getting the straight story. On supporting the war policies, Sanders has voted more times for military action so if this is your threshold then Hillary is the choice. A president's job is to promote trade, apparently Sanders does not want the responsibility required of the position.

Hillary certainly has the background and exposure to the moving parts and players to make her a wonderful president.

She has to have a great brain to keep it all, and plenty of ambition. She reminds me of my boss, a similarly bright woman.

But qualifications also mean values-based criteria. Must we lift workers in other countries by lowering conditions for our own workforce?

Must we lead the world in regime change efforts?

I feel that she's not qualified to lead our party or our nation on the basis, mostly, of her particular values and vision.

not bring up issues about the other candidate when Sanders has voted for regime changes himself. Sanders has not shown his foreign policy and if he has a foreign police he should have released it by this time, the primaries are almost over. I do not like his votes on gun issues, the five votes against the Brady Bill while 80 people are dying in America on average daily, not good judgement.

...people end up on the record voting for an addition or inclusion that they don't support.

It's rare that a vote is on a singular issue, like the Iraq War Resolution.

I know you're smarter than both about such things.

In the Brady Bill, that's just bad policy with constitutional problems. He's voted to ban assault type weapons, that's pretty anti-gun.

He has the most intelligent approach to gun violence, which is to address the inanimate objects and the pathology behind their misuse.