I admire your diligence but wonder why you go to the trouble.

What will Clinton say when asked by the Republicons, "Why did you switch parties when the chips were down in 2002? In any case, thanks for supporting Republicon values."

remind me of someone.

You have said the same thing to me. I've never seen you say it to the thousands of first responses by non Clinton supporters. Can you share any data that is relevant to this concern you keep bringing up?

But you do know that she would not be the first Democratic nominee who voted for the Iraq War authorization, don't you? In fact a wannabe nominee, John Edwards, also voted for it.

Lots of Democrats voted against it, of course. But not the majority of the Senate Democratic caucus.

So knock Hillary for voting for it, she deserves it, I admit it even though I support her now. As do the majority of Democratic Senators who also voted for it.

people that rely on a balance of power to keep idiot madmen like Bush from doing something stupid, I guess I was shocked. I am old and have been around a long time, but apparently still naive to think that we had a viable two party system. That vote proved we don't. The Parties are not the same but are both beholden to the same Big Money Fat Cats. I made a promise as I watched the betrayal that I would never support any of those DINO's. Not Edwards, not Kerry, not Clinton, not Biden, not any of them. They sold out their integrity to George Bush. When people say he was the worst president be sure to tell them he had support from a lot of Democrats, er DINO's. Of course the DINO's have gotten rich from the grateful MIC.

Those that came out to support Sanders did so to fight this corrupt political process that has given us 2,500,000 homeless children and 16,000,000 living in poverty. Plus the highest infant mortality rate of all modern nations. Those that have chosen to side with Goldman-Sachs and the Koch Bros over the 99% are turning their backs on American children.

Politicians lie to get elected.

Hillary lies about being progressive.

I suspect Trump is lying
about his "conservative" beliefs.

Upside down and inside out.

have someone more conservative?

Anyway, maybe Bernie is a lot more moderate than people, including lots of his supporters, think, as he voted with Hillary most of the time. (The figure is 93% I think.)

Even Socialist Alternative and the International Socialist Organization, the biggest groups in the US, don't support Bernie as a Democrat. And they are the MOST right-wing of the socialist groups.

So, we believe what Republicans are saying about Clinton (and Trump) now?


The most charitable thing I can say about Trump is that we don't really know where he stands on anything at any given moment (and I'm not really even sure he does). He just spews a bunch of stuff that he thinks is going to fly at a given moment, probably not with much thought. Clinton is much smarter and together than he is- even if you disagree with her on something. The GE debates should be.........interesting.

"The most charitable thing I can say about Hillary is that we don't really know where she stands on anything at any given moment (and I'm not really even sure she does). She just spews a bunch of stuff that she thinks is going to fly at a given moment, probably not with much thought."

There. Fixed it for you!

I swear that sometimes I have to check that I'm still on DEMOCRATIC Underground and not Free Republic.

on just how very difficult it is, alas, to pinpoint where Hillary stands:
Just for you!

I think I might be on Free Republic. Issues like:

The corruption of Big Money in government via Citizens United.

Job killing "Free Trade" agreements

Fracking for oil company profits over people's water quality.

Unregulated domestic spying and no oversight for the NSA/CIA Security State.

Drone killing of terrorist "suspects" in foreign lands (100 innocents killed for each suspect)

Prisons for Profits

The Iraq War

American Exceptionalism as an excuse for neocon imperialism.

The use of cluster bombs near civilian areas.

To name only a few issues that Clinton agrees with the Republicon Party.

Please stop making DU feel more and more like Freeper Land because of your support of the conservative.

Her record is extremely conservative.

Trump has said he doesn't want to kill the ACA or Planned Parenthood, and I presume Hillary would not either. But the issue of war (just for fun and profit) is a big one.

If so, then..............

She's a Chicken Hawk with really shitty judgment and people that she owes, in the War industry.

dangerous combination

It would be like email server she had.

I bet you think we live in a democracy also.

I fully believe that she is self-absorbed and self-important enough to fire off a nuke just to etch her name into the history books along with Truman.

Good enough reason to nuke them?

May not be "Bernie progressive" on foreign policy but I for one would feel safer with Clinton as POTUS than Trump, esp. in regards to foreign policy.

This is John McCains Campagin manager from 2008 saying HE will vote form clinton rather than Trump because HE thinks clinton is more conservative than Trump.

Yes, I know that you think that ridiculous. But the guy was not saying that Trump is a liberal, but a nationalist. He did throw in the words "left wing", but we are talking about something other than the conventional liberal-conservative divide with Trump.

Or do you think that Marine Le Pen in France is progressive, perhaps more progressive than their Socialist president? She has similar positions to Trump and is a fan of his.

on her positions. Where is she today on fracking? The TPP? Medical marijuana? College loans? The min wage, is it still $12 or now $15 like Sanders? Where does she stand on tough drug laws or Prisons For Profits? How about invading Iraq or Iran or Russia? The neocons are drooling at the though of new wars.

The problem in refuting it is that Trump has absolutely no record. However, Clinton is a liberal on social issues and a liberal or moderate on all economic issues. Foreign policy does not neatly fall on the liberal/conservative spectrum -- it is better seen on a scale between isolationist and interventionist, where she is more to the latter than Obama.

As to Trump, if you define him from comments in the primaries - he is all over the map and consistently and I believe intentionally outrageous. However the one thing he certainly isn't on economic issues is liberal -- no liberal describes the problem as being that "wages are too high" in the US to compete.

the Patriot Act, Free Trade, college loans (don't want to give away no free stuff), fracking, etc.

On social issues she is moderate at best. She didn't warm to same sex marriage for a long time. She is still anti-medical marijuana. She is against lowering the age for SS and Medicare, against single payer health insurance. She admitted in public recently that she supported the Reagan's position on AIDS (she since backed off that position, but the truth was revealed).

She supports using cluster bombs in civilian areas when most of the modern world abhor that practice.

On the economy she supports the decision to turn back Glass-Steigall which had been very successful at keeping the banks from having a crisis. She stands by that decision today. NOT LIBERAL.

Trump is a progressive in the same that Mussolini was a progressive.

Hillary is a conservative in the same way that Eisenhower was a conservative.

Trump might get the trains to go on time while suppressing women and People of Color and blowing up the world for the sake of his ego.

Hillary might be more hawkish than we like, but she's thoughtful about it at least, and she might help build infrastructure and invest in new technologies (cf. Eisenhower's Interstate Highway and Nasa), strengthen social security (cf. Eisenhower's expansion of social security) and will enact legislation to strengthen the middle class.

If these are the ways in which progressivism and conservatism are defined these days, then I'd go for the "conservative."

The guy simply stated that he though Clinton was more conservative than Trump

Stay the the facts

Is he pro gay marriage? Does he believe in climate change? Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining, ok? The fact Bernie supporters are now quoting republicans is disgusting in it's predictablility.

Bazinga.

gender marriage a mere few years ago. And her position on climate change sounds good but she will expect the middle and working classes to pay for fight it not her friends the Wealthy Fat Cats.

that Hillary is to the right of a neo-Fascist who had been endorsed by the freaking KKK?!

WTF?!!

he says he is. But I can understand if you don't' believe anything he says - I don't either

But then I have said here many time (as have many others here at DU) that I don't' believe Clinton either.

Talk is cheap for both of them. But if you don't know now that he will attack her from the LEft on some issues you haven't been paying attention. Hell, even Hartmann had talked about this one many times

He simply represents that weird mix of populist economic appeal with oligarchy and race and gender oppression that is typical of fascism. It's a package deal in his case, as it was with earlier fascists. To divide him up into more progressive and more conservative positions is a dangerous thing to do since it misses the unique nature of a fascist political orientation.

The subject of this thread is: Clinton is one high ranking republicans choice because she is more conservative than Trump

You might like this one too: Apparently she going to finally come out of the neocon closet

Trump as Unifier: Are Hillary Clinton and Neoconservatives Ready to Join Forces?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511913533

say that Hillary is more conservative than Trump. There is nothing more conservative that fascism - it is the edge of the far-right spectrum. No matter how much faux-populism if gets mixed in with.

You should read the link provided above and read through the comments here an at the other link

IF Trump can get to the Left of Clinton on some major issues - well, it is what it is

If it walks like a duck..........

Anything within fascism that bears a superficial resemblance to progressivism is so part and parcel of the whole fascist worldview that it is not in fact leftist.

Study your history. Nazism called itself national socialism. Was it socialist? Sure, in a way. Was it leftist? Heck no. It was the exact opposite of leftist.

power of the MIC. Clinton embraces that power and they have been very generous to both her campaign and her personal fortune.

Trump can hit her with 'populist' rhetoric from both sides.
For those who know history, he's pretty much Benito Mussolini reincarnated. His bigotry, nationalism, and 'strong man' authoritarianism will resonate with working class conservatives, and I think he'll kiss enough evangelical ass to attract them. Hillary supporters thinking the GE is going to be a cakewalk are in for a rude surprise. JEB and Co. took him lightly too....

It would be a very bad idea for the DNC and DINO-Debbie to shut out progressive platform at the convention. It's like they want to lose... Believe me, many will not even bother showing up after Clinton and Trump bash their ways thru the airwaves. It's about to get very ugly, very fast. I think many will end up taking a pass... I'm already over it.

as if they speak the gospel. This is getting beyond pathetic.

redirect - again?



The guy is a republican operative and says he will vote for Clinton because she is more conservative than Trump.
If he says this is why he's voting for her because he doesn't like Trump....................

THAT's what PATHETIC. And really, those emoticons are so fucking juvenile - I can't believe how many supposed adults use them in place of actual argument or thought.

closer to the nomination.

she supports a path to citizenship
she supports women's rights
she supports LGBT rights
among other conservative causes

that has the EXACT same chance of passing through Congress as the Republicans has of repealing Obamacare.

Just as the Republicans in congress made a phony show of trying to repeal Obamacare to show their base that they are pushing their agenda, if we nominate Hillary, she will do the exact same thing with gun control laws (she'd wring her hands and make a sad speech in the rose garden and ask congress to pass a bill she knows with 100% certainty will never pass and then she'll shrug her shoulders and sign a trade deal that gives WalMart executives a noticeable erection).

what are the chance that the Reich can get ACA repealed?

Good / not Good?

If she's in the WH she will have the neocons at her back.

a pro corporate conservative won't kill this golden goose for the Health care cabal.

The guy is a fascist opportunist.

Last edited Fri May 6, 2016, 05:45 PM - Edit history (1)

he needs to do something to burn. I think he would burn foreign trade deals, he'd burn parts of Wall Street, he'd burn some overseas military investments, etc.

Trump breaks the conventional ideological spectrum, and not in a good way.

It's going to take a really sharp knife to slice it all thin enough to swallow

trump wants to close the borders to muslims
trump wants to deport millions of people

you think that is more left than clinton?

for example no abortions after the 40th week when both the fetus and mother are healthy.
Its pretty much a meaningless compromise because it doesn't happen
But the antis think its happening because they believe women decide the pregnancy is inconvenient

don't turn your back on Clinton. She tried to get universal healthcare in the 90s in order to fool us. She really didn't win the election to become Senator of NYC. Look at all the wars in the world today. I blame them all on her. Everything was peaceful until she became SOS.












sarcasm off.

She is on record laughing about bombing Iran:

how can she bomb Iran. Iran is one of the safest and most peaceful neighbors in the world. Just ask Israel and Iraq.

Hillary's fault, I tell you!

DU - eh, not so much. This place is nuts.

Trump is a loose cannon that shouldn't be allowed to even tour the White House, let alone live there.

HRC doesn't either. Wall Street would run over it's own mother for a wooden nickle.

Hmmm.. I wonder who I'll vote for??

as Trump just not quite as strong at it.

I'm not complaining.