2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie would have lost West Virginia without the Trump supporters
An exit poll yesterday stated that 44% of Bernie voters in WV were mischievous Trump supporters. If you remove those 44% from the pool, Bernie loses WV by 17K votes.
Bernie vote total: 120,236
Revised vote total: 67,332
Hillary vote total: 84,181
People will say that this is the effect of semi-open primaries and there might be truth to that.
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/WV-D#0510
pangaia
(24,324 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Plus the rulers of the world....
Bernie is the biggest threat to them in my lifetime, and I went to JFK's funeral.
The last one?.... FDR.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Some come to the ambition much later in life than did Hillary. Some are able to run on lifelong principles. Some say anything they think will get them votes. They are not all the same. Sorry.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)And Bernard Sanders is the very, very rare exception
In my view, Clinton is 'ambitious' in the way Julius Caesar was ambitious. She has WANTED this position for decades. It is about her first and foremost.
Sanders is not doing this because of personal ambition. He is doing it for the benefit of other human beings.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Hillary is qualified. As far as Bernie Sanders, he does not understand everything he wants to do requires hard work and money.. Speaking only to young people at rallies instead of small groups is not going to cut it. Where are all these new voters he was talking about.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Hillary may be intellectually qualified, but her decisions have, in may cases, been disastrous for human beings. The REALLY big ones, especially. She is all about positioning.....in my view.
Sanders does very well understand hard work and what it takes.. What in the WORLD are you talking about? THAT is a new one.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)to go to POC communities and discuss their issues-he has not. Or where has Sanders visited a woman organizations to talk about pay disparities--he has not. He gives the same speech at all his rallies..
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)...is America's Imelda Marcos. She'd be a third-tier corporate lawyer had she not hitched her fortunes to William Jefferson Clinton.
[link:|
DrDan
(20,411 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)BTW, I believe the correct term is semi-closed, not semi-open.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)were mocked to dismissed every time. I don't recall Hillary's supporters citing a single exit poll before this one, though. But, suddenly an exit poll is gospel. Seems transparent and, candidly, laughable.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)How do you feel about the WV exit poll now that you have been reminded that Hillary supporters cited exit polls in the past?
merrily
(45,251 posts)All that OP says about an exit poll is "Pennsylvania Exit Poll - 12% of Democrats are under 30 years old!!!!!"
Was there some dispute about age of Democrats that that poll supposedly settled?
And of all the primaries to date, was the Pennsylvania exit poll the only exit poll cited by Hillary supporters before this one?
egalitegirl
(362 posts)Do you want the change the law to disallow Trump voters from voting in elections? Answer yes or no. BTW, Hillary won with money from Goldman Sachs wherever she won.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Now tell us out the other side of your mouth why it's great when Hillary goes after republican support...
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Maybe they were independent leaning people that want actual change instead of the status quo? That group is large and they would go for Bernie or Trump before Hillary
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)The so-called Trump supporters who voted for Bernie are, by and large, not secret conservatives. They are working-class people who are tired of the 1% getting richer (Hillary included there) while everyone else is getting poorer.
I'm seeing that where I live. Unionized factories are closing down, and are being replaced by strip malls that offer part-time work only. Bernie is seen is the best bet to fix that. But Trump is seen as a close second. Many of my long-time liberal blue-collar friends are talking Bernie, and they are talking Trump.
There is no enthusiasm for Hillary. She is seen as more of the same.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I think it's stunning the degree to which Clinton supporters put her interests above those of the party, the country or its citizens.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)so... math says yes.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)And based on your logic, Democrats lose 40 states this year because more republicans voted in them.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Not ever.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)We know that a lot of them voted for McCain in 2008.
And, no, neither time was it "operation chaos". West Virginia Democrats are very Conservative. They vote in the Democratic primary to get the desired legislators, gubernatorial, etc candidates. A lot of those voters are going to vote for the Republican presidential candidate, but still voting for Democrats in the other races.
thesquanderer
(11,993 posts)because Clinton will actually presumably be on the ballot in November, whereas Sanders will likely not. That is, many Sanders voters who said they would vote for Trump in November probably assumed they would not have the opportunity to vote for Sanders in November, whereas Clinton voters would not be operating under a similar assumption.
FBaggins
(26,762 posts)"Trump would have lost without the Bernie supporters that Hillary shunned"
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)Unlike Bernie, she said she wants everyone to support her. No purity tests needed.
FBaggins
(26,762 posts)What matters is what the Bernie supporters believe.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Trump will do better against Hill than he will against Bernie. Bernie stomped her because people don't want Hillary, they want Bernie!
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... patient but when people stop listening to what comes out of their own mouths they're sure not going to listen to what comes out of any one else's.
peace13
(11,076 posts)That is against their best interest. Read what I wrote. Trump supporters vote for Hill....now that is a game Trump can win.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)would lose the general badly...the new McGovern...thus I will stick with Hillary. In less than a month, your delusion will end...as Hillary finishes the last primary and is ahead in the delegate count. No super will vote against the will of the voters.
peace13
(11,076 posts)I will forgive you for your rudeness. What I won't forgive is the living hell we will be put through if she is the candidate for the GE. It is lose lose in that senario.
frylock
(34,825 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)coal miners out of work. She lost that one fair and square. I wouldn't vote for anyone who threatened to do away with my job either. As for her retraining idea. Retraining for what? McDonalds? You don't say something like that unless you have specifics.
Renew Deal
(81,877 posts)Do you think the coal mines should be closed?
Autumn
(45,120 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)They called Obama a Socialist, but Bernie is on camera calling himself a Socialist over and over.
The ads write themselves:
[img][/img]
frylock
(34,825 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)In every contest from here on out!
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)because she is a woman. White man trumps.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Sanders pulled in a lot of voters who are not going to vote Democratic in the general election. That's really not impressive at all.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Clinton's failure to win in WV is not Bernie's fault
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It amazes me that in States like WV, where 30% turnout among registered voters is considered to be very high turnout anyone can buy into theories involving highly committed, organized masses of voters crossing to vote for the other Party in some contrived scheme to alter the outcome. If such things were actual electoral realities any Party or candidate could erase such possible influence simply by turning out more voters. 70% of registered voters did not even vote. The winner of both Party primaries, as always was Apathy. 70% chose silence. 70% of all registered voters left their vote on the table. That's not even talking about eligible but not registered voters of which WV has more than they have voters. Yeah.
I'd say focus on all those votes laying around, sleeping on sofas and binge watching Game of Thrones instead of casting a ballot and all these dramatic theories would become moot. Of course that takes work, in advance and in this case in WV and who the fuck wants to go organize there, eh? Apparently not the Clinton campaign.....
floriduck
(2,262 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)fund these primaries and should have the right to vote for the candidate that inspires them!
Closed primaries and reworked voter rolls are the only way Hillary gets anything. I hesitate to call it a win when many thousands of voters are denied their chance to vote.
Open primaries - It is the people as a whole that matter. Not a Right-wing authoritarian party hack, backing a Center-Right, or a Right-Center candidate, at the expense of all other candidates running. The people deserve a choice, not a single someone picked by the party leaders.