2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumis truthfulness, accountability and transparency a favorable trait in a Democratic candidate?
if not, why?
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)Favorable, unless,.. you are part of the establishment. Otherwise, it's winning at all costs.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)a shapeshifter
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)If I needed one I would have one.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... that would cause MORE damage than any damage it does by NOT releasing them. He and his current wife, Jane, have chosen between the least painful of two unpleasant options. Now they're just waiting for everyone to lose interest and hope that it blows over.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rules, I would suggest there is not much of a risk of not providing them. I agree, there is something in them that is probably beyond such a low tax rate.
reddread
(6,896 posts)right?
1939
(1,683 posts)I would predict that a Hillary Clinton presidential administration would exhibit an amount of paranoia about leaks and bad publicity that would give Nixon a run for the money.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)GDP would be less spammed, and you point, whatever it may be, would be more focused.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I don't go for this "transparency" business if it means revealing everything about personal finances, health and medical history, etc.
reddread
(6,896 posts)would that be too much transparency?
how about when civilians die as a direct result?
a mistake?
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)We cannot "prove" one thing had to do with another thing. Just as we will never "prove" a case of lung cancer was caused by smoking cigarettes.
reddread
(6,896 posts)just give them a chance.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If you can't trust the promises, why listen to them?
reddread
(6,896 posts)but the way some of these online posters act, I start to wonder.
thanks!
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If you're okay with the idea that none of what she says is material in your decision to support her, all that's left is what you can see; "Hey! She's a woman! Let's vote for her!"
reddread
(6,896 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)Hard to imagine.
those transcripts are much more in the forefront.
synergie
(1,901 posts)be accountable for what they said and have done, and their failure to release that which has been par for the course for all presidential candidates.
The private speech transcripts is the "long form birth certificate" super special rule applied to only one candidate ever in history, and some fringe folks will glom onto this and concoct various paranoid delusions, but those who have some idea of how time works (paid speeches as a private citizen in 2013, which is not even remotely unusual somehow affected something years before, but no one can come up with a single example of any thing ever happening?)
BS's tax record issues along with the lies he and Jane have told on the matter are identical to Trump, and we're all wondering what they're both hiding and why they're so dishonest about it.
Both men say stuff, and neither can answer HOW they plan on doing things, and they're hiding things about their finances, and their judgment seems to be quite poor on a lot of things.
Trump gave paid speeches too, and we have no idea WHAT Bernie and Jane did, since they refuse to do what Hillary and Bill did and actually be transparent.
reddread
(6,896 posts)stop. it tickles.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)Senator Sanders has released his current tax return on April i5, 2016.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/04/bernie-sanders-tax-return-taxes-2014-released-net-worth-hillary-clinton-democratic-debate-refund-salary-donations/
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)I kid, I kid!!!
synergie
(1,901 posts)Of course these traits are favorable and EXPECTED in a Democratic candidate, it's why there is so much overwhelming support for the front runner.
She's the one rated as most truthful by the fact checkers, she's the only one being transparent and the only one actually asking people to hold her accountable, which is why she's running on a platform of achievable goals with solid plans of how the get there, that make sense and are actually feasible.
The other guy is not so truthful about his own record, as he holds her to task for things HE voted for that she was not empowered to vote for, while exaggerating his own participation in the things that she's on record as actually doing.
He also refuses to honor his agreements or his own promises. He signed a deal to help raise funds for down ballot Dems with the DNC and not only did he fail to keep his word, he tells some ridiculous lies about what the candidate doing what she's said she would.
His campaign stole data, was found to be the only one who did shady things, but he accused HER and the DNC of somehow being guilty for what his staffers did, and lied outright about what they've been found to be guilty of, even filing a bogus lawsuit over the matter that they dropped as they distorted the evidence found out by the investigation of their own culpability.
He won't ever admit that he made a mistake, no matter how glaringly those errors of judgment were, there is literally no accountability or truthfulness as he lies about who endorsed him, prompting lawsuits against him.
As to transparency and again that truthfulness. He lied about having released his tax records, which he did not, he and Jane lied about releasing this years records by saying dumb things about Turbo Tax, and released a summary which was filled with errors, and wasn't the full story, of a single year, and not the one they said it would be. They also filed an extension til AFTER the last primary so they could be as opaque as possible.
These traits are important, and it's why HRC is winning and it's why Bernie has lost, he's on par with Donald with the transparency and the lack of truthfulness about releasing his tax records, which has been expected for presidential candidates for decades.
So, one wonders why these things don't matter to those who believe lies about the Democratic frontrunner. and ignore the simple fact that there is only one person running who has been truthful, has held herself accountable for her past decisions, and has been transparent.
What's with the hypocrisy, for those who claim these things are important, but are pro-Bernie anyway?
reddread
(6,896 posts)sorry
can I have that cleaned for you?
synergie
(1,901 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)Facts are facts, even when you don't like them.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)No matter how much you delude yourself.
Frankly, I care fuckall if that's what you prefer.
Bye bye.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But many US voters obviously prefer slogans and the rich prefer someone that they can trust.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)I refuse to vote for any candidate that doesn't live these values, each and every day.