Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:32 AM May 2016

(Salon)This is one weak nominee:Hillary Clinton's problem isn't Bernie Sanders. It's Hillary Clinton

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 12:14 PM - Edit history (2)

Clinton's camp thinks her résumé will be enough to carry her to the White House. No one should be that sure
by David Niose

No matter what you think about Hillary Clinton as the presidential primaries wind down, there is one undeniable fact that lingers in the background. Despite having had enormous advantages from the start of the campaign—no serious competition from within the party, solid support from national party leaders, a massive war chest and a nationwide grassroots network built over the course of decades in national politics—Clinton has struggled to put away a 74-year-old Jewish socialist who has had almost no establishment support.

Say whatever you want about Clinton’s lengthy résumé—and her credentials are indeed impressive—her performance this primary season is hardly indicative of a strong candidate.

(snip)
Unfortunately, Cohen ignores the fact that the “overwhelming evidence” isn’t strong enough to allow Clinton to claim the nomination with pledged delegates alone. Had the evidence been so overwhelming, courting superdelegates would be irrelevant. Because Clinton has been far from dominating in the primaries and caucuses, the true “political reality” is that she will need superdelegate support to secure the nomination. Fortunately for Clinton, she appears to have the support of an overwhelming majority of superdelegates, but those allegiances can change up until the time of the convention vote, so Sanders is alive as long as the race comes down to a fight over them.

http://www.salon.com/2016/05/14/this_is_one_weak_nominee_hillary_clintons_problem_isnt_bernie_sanders_its_hillary_clinton/
79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
(Salon)This is one weak nominee:Hillary Clinton's problem isn't Bernie Sanders. It's Hillary Clinton (Original Post) CoffeeCat May 2016 OP
(Salon) Is a clearinghouse for Hillary hate. onehandle May 2016 #1
Drumpf is getting closer to the WH. Time to check out real estate in Costa Rica. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #2
Or unless when it's pushing the Bernie ain't so good a candidate then HRC supporters bkkyosemite May 2016 #5
Yup, and they make a living off of detailing the nuttiness, and scariness, of Trump Babel_17 May 2016 #30
But the fact is Perogie May 2016 #6
'General election polls before and during the primary are predictive of absolutely nothing.' onehandle May 2016 #24
You're funny Perogie May 2016 #40
The weather vane in your sig is great. Clever and apt. n/t leeroysphitz May 2016 #42
Yup still_one May 2016 #10
Salon: apcalc May 2016 #15
Right Wing Rag. Yup Yup. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #23
Joan Walsh tho. Also since when does criticism = hate . Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #35
And denial is not just a river in Egypt. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #56
Truth always hurts 4dsc May 2016 #77
Salon is Dead ON once again Ferd Berfel May 2016 #3
Here is the Link to the article: KoKo May 2016 #17
+1 and kick potisok May 2016 #18
+1 and kick again Red Oak May 2016 #63
The socio/genetic flaw of dynasty Fairgo May 2016 #41
Quite a devastating description. Spot on. libdem4life May 2016 #49
WOW Ferd Berfel May 2016 #66
She loves her BlackBerry, though. Octafish May 2016 #68
Yes. Game of Thrones in real life. KPN May 2016 #76
Something in the water this am! CNN, Huffpost, WSJ and Salon - Hillary flawed, Bernie lookin strong riderinthestorm May 2016 #4
Agree! Mike Nelson May 2016 #9
Maybe some of them got some "on background" tidbits from Comey the other day. Fawke Em May 2016 #12
I guarantee not salon nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #37
First they laugh at you... dana_b May 2016 #11
Huh? Mike Nelson May 2016 #7
But courting superdelegates IS IRRELEVANT as 2008 proved. nt BootinUp May 2016 #8
Actually, Obama won because he successful courted the Superdelegates CoffeeCat May 2016 #14
No. They went with the validated pledged delegates as they were supposed to. nt BootinUp May 2016 #16
Of course, you're right, don't worry about it. Hillary has this all tied up, she has for months now pdsimdars May 2016 #71
Bernie has earned the right to continue. Clinton has failed to earn 2383 pledged delegates CoffeeCat May 2016 #13
You forgot to post the Link to your article, Here: KoKo May 2016 #19
Thank you...I'm only on my first cup of coffee! (nt) CoffeeCat May 2016 #21
I find the continual references to Bernie Sanders' religion offensive. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #20
I find it no more offensive than the continual references to Hillary's gender. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #34
For the win. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #60
Because Turin_C3PO May 2016 #43
My mom was Jewish. I am proud of it. I just don't understand the continual references . DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #44
I agree it was unnecessary to mention here Turin_C3PO May 2016 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #22
This article is completely on target CoffeeCat May 2016 #26
I agree with you CoffeeCat Red Oak May 2016 #62
Another day, another inane Salon article. TwilightZone May 2016 #25
+ 1 JoePhilly May 2016 #31
Yep. We winnowed down to literally the two worst possible candidates Recursion May 2016 #27
Nonsense, starting with the headline. TwilightZone May 2016 #28
Any article that says Hillary is weak makes Bernie look even weaker redstateblues May 2016 #29
If you look at her mega-advantages going in and the media Bernie blackout, though, Arugula Latte May 2016 #32
...! KoKo May 2016 #33
4th outlet in the US nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #36
The campaign is getting boring now that Trump is unopposed. The Media likes a horserace and leeroysphitz May 2016 #46
Hillary is struggling in about the same spot as she did in 2008. apnu May 2016 #38
WRONG. She is FAR ahead of Bernie whereas she was slightly behind Obama. nt pnwmom May 2016 #51
In numbers yes, but Bernie has come on strong and her popular appeal is wearing. apnu May 2016 #67
No, it's not. He did well in WVA because he has done well in all the states with low populations pnwmom May 2016 #70
It's because she's going to get indicted trudyco May 2016 #39
I think you are right about this. I don't know if she'll get indicted, BUT pdsimdars May 2016 #72
K & R AzDar May 2016 #47
It must really hurt for Bernie to be badly Progressive dog May 2016 #48
You have a crystal ball? Last time I checked the calendar, there is still libdem4life May 2016 #52
Don't need a crystal ball to see that Progressive dog May 2016 #55
You go ahead and run with that. The lady, you know which one, libdem4life May 2016 #61
She will easily win the majority of pledged delegates with pledged delegates alone. pnwmom May 2016 #50
I'm guessing time is not in her favor. libdem4life May 2016 #53
You're guessing wrong. She only needs 35% of the remaining pledged delegates to pnwmom May 2016 #58
All right, then. I think we've been here before,or at least some of the libdem4life May 2016 #64
So what does that make Sanders? StayFrosty May 2016 #54
give us all a break and get some perspective. . . . pdsimdars May 2016 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author TM99 May 2016 #57
Because more than half of the delegates have already been assigned, she only needs 35% pnwmom May 2016 #65
Leaders lead. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #59
Fifty ways to leave your lover nolabels May 2016 #69
I don't agree, that "wait a few more years" bus has left. I think people have actually HAD IT! pdsimdars May 2016 #74
That's pretty much what i meant nolabels May 2016 #79
Oh deary me, she is so weak..... Florencenj2point0 May 2016 #75
K&R nt silvershadow May 2016 #78

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
1. (Salon) Is a clearinghouse for Hillary hate.
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:35 AM
May 2016

Years ago I paid them a monthly subscription.

Now that broke blog has become irrelevant.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
5. Or unless when it's pushing the Bernie ain't so good a candidate then HRC supporters
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:38 AM
May 2016

show up in droves!

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
30. Yup, and they make a living off of detailing the nuttiness, and scariness, of Trump
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:55 PM
May 2016

The current featured article is anti_trump, and has a picture to match.

https://www.salon.com/

The featured article changes rapidly, here's the direct link.

https://www.salon.com/2016/05/14/donald_trump_american_psycho_muse_how_the_art_of_the_deal_elitist_became_a_poor_mans_patrick_bateman_and_now_hes_a_real_threat/

Lol, says it all.

Perogie

(687 posts)
6. But the fact is
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:43 AM
May 2016

She hasn't put Bernie away. Even though you Hilliary supporters say Bernie would lose to GOP because they would just have to say the word Socialist and he would lose.

Fact is Bernie does better head to head against Trump in every swing state and national poll

If Hilliary is so strong and better she should have had the nomination by now. She should be sweeping the floor in polls against Trump.

She may win the nomination but is a weak candidate with YUGE unfavorables.

Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
24. 'General election polls before and during the primary are predictive of absolutely nothing.'
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:25 PM
May 2016

Ignore hypothetical matchups in primary season – they also measure nothing. General election polls before and during the primary season have a very wide margin of error. That’s especially the case for candidates who aren’t even in the race and therefore haven’t been treated to the onslaught of skeptical media coverage usually associated with being the candidate.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harrys-guide-to-2016-election-polls

Perogie

(687 posts)
40. You're funny
Sat May 14, 2016, 02:38 PM
May 2016

Nate Silver that uses polls to predict outcomes says polls don't matter.


Polling data showed Obama did well against McCain while still in the Primaries and seemed to be a predictor

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#polls



 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
35. Joan Walsh tho. Also since when does criticism = hate .
Sat May 14, 2016, 01:44 PM
May 2016

Oh yeah that's right since whenever Hillary is running

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
3. Salon is Dead ON once again
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:37 AM
May 2016

She is a tragically flawed and weak candidate. And still has a ton of baggage she's carrying and has yet to explain If she were better, she wouldn't have these problems. The only reason she has gotten this far is Wall Street and the global Corporate elite

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
41. The socio/genetic flaw of dynasty
Sat May 14, 2016, 06:56 PM
May 2016

Privilege masquerades as experience. Brutal experience for the masses, without consequence for the pretender to the throne. She is hollowed out, given form by the accretion of data, technology, and influences - with no guiding spirit. She is a political Golem with clay feet and bloody hands.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
4. Something in the water this am! CNN, Huffpost, WSJ and Salon - Hillary flawed, Bernie lookin strong
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:38 AM
May 2016

Thanks for posting this.


 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
37. I guarantee not salon
Sat May 14, 2016, 01:51 PM
May 2016

But there is more to just that. As highly unlikely as comney would go on background. You done courts and I do them, perhaps. Perhaps they picked a copy of the Independent (UK) that went there months ago, or the German papers, or El Universal and La Jornada from Mexico City...maybe Foreign Affairs. They all went there months ago, calling her a week candidate.

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
11. First they laugh at you...
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:50 AM
May 2016

seriously, maybe SOME (we'll never get all) of the pundits or maybe true journalists can see what's happening and that she is a very weak candidate. With all of the backing, support, corporate/lobbyist money and now she is STILL losing primaries to Bernie and having to fight for the nomination. They ALL thought that this would be virtually wrapped up in March (Super Tuesday). People here were laughing at Bernie and us thinking it was cute but not any kind of a serious threat. Now they are realizing that if she cant beat Bernie outright, how will she do with Trump?

Mike Nelson

(9,960 posts)
7. Huh?
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:45 AM
May 2016

...in a year where outsiders are the rage, Hillary Clinton is the only established candidate left standing. Salon is looking at a "small" instead of the "big picture" - forest and trees analogy, I guess...

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
14. Actually, Obama won because he successful courted the Superdelegates
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:55 AM
May 2016

Most of the Superdelegates were on Clinton's side in 08. Obama wooed many of them away from Clinton.

I remember, at the onset of the 2008 race, one of Hillary's primary arguments was that it didn't matter what happened during the primaries, because Clinton had the Superdelegates in her pocket.

Slowly, th8e migrated to Obama.

So...your analysis about 2008 is incorrect.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
71. Of course, you're right, don't worry about it. Hillary has this all tied up, she has for months now
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:39 PM
May 2016

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
13. Bernie has earned the right to continue. Clinton has failed to earn 2383 pledged delegates
Sat May 14, 2016, 11:53 AM
May 2016

Facts are facts--and 2383 is the number of pledged delegates that a candidate needs to earn to secure a win.

Clinton hasn't been able to do that. She won't be able to do that before the convention.

That's not Bernie's problem. Bernie has earned the right to stay in and fight at the convention.

Bernie isn't the candidate with an FBI investigation hanging over his head, nor do 70 percent of voters say they distrust him. That's Clintons baggage. Her baggage could sink us in the GE against Trump. So, we will continue to fight for Bernie--who beats Trump overwhelmingly better than Clinton, in all current polls.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
20. I find the continual references to Bernie Sanders' religion offensive.
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:07 PM
May 2016

What difference does his religion make?

Margaret Mead once mused if we go back far enough we were all Jewish.

Turin_C3PO

(14,007 posts)
43. Because
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:30 PM
May 2016

Being Jewish isn't merely about practicing Judaism. In fact, many Jews are agnostic or atheist. Being Jewish is having a shared identity of traditions, cultural practices, persecutions, and origin. It's an ethnicity, in other words, similar to Hispanics or Arabs, both groups who have members of different race but shared ethnicity.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
44. My mom was Jewish. I am proud of it. I just don't understand the continual references .
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:33 PM
May 2016

My mom was Jewish. I am proud of it. I just don't understand the continual references, especially in the context of the seminal article.

Turin_C3PO

(14,007 posts)
45. I agree it was unnecessary to mention here
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:41 PM
May 2016

I just wanted to explain (in a long winded way lol) that Jewish identity isn't all religion.

Response to CoffeeCat (Original post)

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
26. This article is completely on target
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:28 PM
May 2016

I may just start reading them more.

We need journalists and commentators to speak the truth.

And this article is spot on. Clinton hasn't reached 2383 in pledged delegates because she's a weak candidate; and because Bernie's message resonates with so many.

She hasn't earned the win, and she certainly hasn't earned the right to pressure Bernie to quit.

Red Oak

(697 posts)
62. I agree with you CoffeeCat
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:35 PM
May 2016

+1

Hillary is a very weak candidate. Great resume, but a horrible candidate.

The GOP is very lucky to have us potentially running such a weak candidate when all they can come up with is Donald Trump.

I wonder, if Hillary loses, you think some heads may roll within the DNC? The current Democratic establishment should not stand if, in all its wisdom of pushing Hillary down our throats, it ultimately allowed Donald Trump to win the Presidency.

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)
25. Another day, another inane Salon article.
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016

You know it's all about the clicks, right? They gave up on any pretext of intelligent content years ago.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
27. Yep. We winnowed down to literally the two worst possible candidates
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:28 PM
May 2016

I'm still furious. We brought this on ourselves.

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)
28. Nonsense, starting with the headline.
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:32 PM
May 2016

If the Clinton camp thought her resume' was enough, she wouldn't need a ground game, local offices and organization, GOTV efforts, etc.

It's this kind of simplistic nonsense that makes Salon unreadable anymore.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
29. Any article that says Hillary is weak makes Bernie look even weaker
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:32 PM
May 2016

He can't even win the nomination Of his own party!

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
32. If you look at her mega-advantages going in and the media Bernie blackout, though,
Sat May 14, 2016, 01:11 PM
May 2016

he has done AMAZINGLY well. He started with little name recognition and has gotten his donations from the little people, not super pacs. Plus, he's old and from Vermont and isn't afraid to call for Democratic Socialism and challenge the PTB. Hillary, on the other hand, has been a known quantity for two and a half decades. She has the full power of the corporate-media alliance and Wall St. behind her, and she's still flailing. She is just a terrible, terrible "major" candidate.

 

leeroysphitz

(10,462 posts)
46. The campaign is getting boring now that Trump is unopposed. The Media likes a horserace and
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:44 PM
May 2016

is just stirring the pot. Works for me. Bernie has enough shady crap going on against him and should welcome the leg up.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
38. Hillary is struggling in about the same spot as she did in 2008.
Sat May 14, 2016, 01:55 PM
May 2016

Her problem isn't scandals, its that she's so well known, most voters made up their minds about her years ago. There are few people left to sway. People who are for Hillary are entrenched, people against her are entrenched. Hillary struggles to convince opposed and undecideds, its her main weakness as a campaigner.

And we're seeing the results with Sanders just as we saw those results with Obama before. Its not Bernie that's the problem, If O'Malley were in Bernie's position, we'd see something like this. If it was any other Democrat, pick any one you want, we'd see this.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
67. In numbers yes, but Bernie has come on strong and her popular appeal is wearing.
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:36 AM
May 2016

Just like 2008. I think you missed my point.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
70. No, it's not. He did well in WVA because he has done well in all the states with low populations
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
May 2016

of minority voters, especially African Americans.

A 538 mathematical model based on demographics alone (without considering polls) , predicted a 15% win in WVA. And that's exactly what Bernie got.

trudyco

(1,258 posts)
39. It's because she's going to get indicted
Sat May 14, 2016, 02:11 PM
May 2016

And maybe they realize putting Joe Biden in there is not a good plan.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
72. I think you are right about this. I don't know if she'll get indicted, BUT
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:43 PM
May 2016

things are starting to come out now that puts cracks in Hillary's dismissal of this. Like when the head of the FBI has to come out and say that they are NOT doing a "security review" they are doing an investigation, it's right there in the name Federal Bureau of INVESTIGATION.
Comey isn't a right wing radio talk show host. Him coming out got a few people's attention.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
52. You have a crystal ball? Last time I checked the calendar, there is still
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:21 PM
May 2016

a Primary going on.

OTOH, it must really hurt not to be killing it with an unknown, rumpled department store suit, grumpy dark horse threatening the Coronation.

She's a weak candidate. EOS.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
55. Don't need a crystal ball to see that
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:29 PM
May 2016

Bernie doesn't have the delegates to win and can't get them.
The weak candidate has almost 300 more delegates than the alternate, who claims money buys elections as he outspends the supposed weak candidate while continuing to lose.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
61. You go ahead and run with that. The lady, you know which one,
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:34 PM
May 2016

hasn't sung yet. To coin another trite phrase...It's not over till it's over. Tickets have not been sold to the Coronation Ball.

At least he's not going to the Bush Republicans for an infusion of cash...speaking of spending money. They both go to their constituencies...Bernie's is we Peasants...formerly known as the Middle Class.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
50. She will easily win the majority of pledged delegates with pledged delegates alone.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:19 PM
May 2016

But, yes, she needs some super delegates to win the majority of pledged and supers COMBINED.

So what?

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
58. You're guessing wrong. She only needs 35% of the remaining pledged delegates to
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:31 PM
May 2016

win the majority of pledged delegates.

Bernie has only won 45% of pledged delegates so far. He's not suddenly going to win more than 66% of the remaining pledged delegates, which is what he would need.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
64. All right, then. I think we've been here before,or at least some of the
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:36 PM
May 2016

posters, and it doesn't always go as planned. Thanks just the same, but I'll wait until it's a done deal.

Response to CoffeeCat (Original post)

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
65. Because more than half of the delegates have already been assigned, she only needs 35%
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:42 PM
May 2016

of the remaining pledged delegates to reach a majority of the pledged, and he need more than 66%.

She is faring very well.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
59. Leaders lead.
Sat May 14, 2016, 10:32 PM
May 2016

And I think that is what has been missing.

She still has time to display some real authentic leadership, but it would involve taking bold stands on potentially "controversial" issues.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
69. Fifty ways to leave your lover
Sun May 15, 2016, 12:04 PM
May 2016

The inevitable short jaunt into purgatory is here.

I can wait four years more. It seems we already had to wait about forty, a few more to unhinge the scurge and watch it drop to the hell hole it came from is not going to be that big of a thing.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
79. That's pretty much what i meant
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:34 PM
May 2016

The next four years are probably going to be more historic than most can fathom.

The man behind the curtain has nowhere left to hide

Florencenj2point0

(435 posts)
75. Oh deary me, she is so weak.....
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:54 PM
May 2016

she's so weak that she has more votes than Sanders and tRump. She is so weak that after taking more abuse than any politician, even Al Gore and she is still standing. Bernie should be so strong. They haven't laid a glove on him yet.
Yeah she is so weak she took the humiliation of her husband's affair, kept her family together and became a Senator, SOS and now she is going to be president.
This quote from the article is an out right lie and a delusion that Sanders has been able to hypnotize some of his supporters in to believing.

Unfortunately, Cohen ignores the fact that the “overwhelming evidence” isn’t strong enough to allow Clinton to claim the nomination with pledged delegates alone. Had the evidence been so overwhelming, courting superdelegates would be irrelevant. Because Clinton has been far from dominating in the primaries and caucuses, the true “political reality” is that she will need superdelegate support to secure the nomination.


From my diary of about an hour ago:


Here is the Real Math not the Bernie Math

The democratic candidate will need 2,026 PLEDGED delegates to win the nomination. Right now Hillary has 1,717. (I don't know if that includes yesterday's NV win). So she needs 309 more PLEDGED delegates. She is on target, actually she is 108% of target.

Bernie, on the other hand is only at 92% of target. He is way behind at 1,437 PLEDGED delegates. He still needs 589 PLEDGED delegates to win the nomination.

There are 897 delegates left but there aren't enough Bernie friendly state left for him to pick up those delegates. He is going to lose CA and NJ. He is presently losing OR which surprises me. He is going to lose PR. Look at the States and territories left and tell me which ones he wins by more than 35 percent.
Here is the link: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

Explain to me how he gets 589 delegates out of those remaining states.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511966322

The guy who wrote that article either knows he is lying, or he is another hypnotized Bernie supporter. I don't believe most bernie people are this delusional and I do believe all of you here can do the math as can my brother. Unfortunately I have a sister who would probably buy right in to the hypnotized group......
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»(Salon)This is one weak n...