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Logical

(22,457 posts)
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:35 AM May 2016

Hillary Clinton's UFO investigation plans unlikely to achieve liftoff, experts say (not the onion)

LOL, really Hillary, this is even worth discussing???


The Democratic frontrunner has said she would look into alleged spottings as president – but there may not be much to investigate.

Hillary Clinton is entering uncharted territory in this presidential election.

If she wins the White House, she would become the first female president, the first spouse of a former president to hold the office herself, and, possibly, the first president to have devoted time on the campaign trail to discussing UFOs.

“There are enough stories out there that I don’t think everybody is just sitting in their kitchen, making them up,” Clinton said in a radio interview in April.

A month earlier, she had appeared on the Jimmy Kimmel show, correcting Kimmel’s use of “UFO” to “UAP” – unidentified aerial phenomena. When Kimmel reminded Clinton that her husband, Bill, had looked for information while president and found nothing, she was defiant.

“Well, I’m gonna do it again,” Clinton said.

The pledges – she also told the told the Conway Daily Sun that she would “get to the bottom” of whether the government has tucked away information on aliens – are exciting UFO enthusiasts.

But they are puzzling some experts on the subject.

“I’m not quite sure what she thinks there is out there,” said Nick Pope, an author and journalist who used to investigate UFOs for the British government’s ministry of defence.

Pope ran the British government’s UFO project from 1991 to 1994 (the investigation unit was wound up in 2009). But America’s own dedicated UFO research effort, called Project Blue Book, ended in 1969, Pope said.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/15/hillary-clinton-ufo-investigation

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary Clinton's UFO investigation plans unlikely to achieve liftoff, experts say (not the onion) (Original Post) Logical May 2016 OP
The truth is out there. JaneyVee May 2016 #1
I assume you mean the wall street transcripts? Logical May 2016 #3
Bernie and Trumps tax returns. JaneyVee May 2016 #4
Kucinich for VP! stone space May 2016 #2
UFOs: Serious Business (USAF Inspector General) Octafish May 2016 #5
Wow, are you living back in the 70s...... Logical May 2016 #6
No one has explained any of those three cases. Octafish May 2016 #11
Well said!!! n/t RKP5637 May 2016 #7
Thank you, RKP5637! Octafish May 2016 #13
Thanks! For me, my zest and spirit in life has been researching/discovering without RKP5637 May 2016 #15
In other words.....Make Believe is fun! Logical May 2016 #16
Totally missing the point, as usual. My comment had nothing to do with make believe, UFOs, etc. RKP5637 May 2016 #17
Here you go..... Logical May 2016 #8
Great. It COULD have been a balloon. Octafish May 2016 #12
Wow, she's courting the tinfoil hat vote Deb May 2016 #9
Carter pursued this as well. OilemFirchen May 2016 #10
When this topic is broached, I always think back to Senator Goldwater: Cooley Hurd May 2016 #14
Curtis LeMay is one of those people. Octafish May 2016 #18

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. UFOs: Serious Business (USAF Inspector General)
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:44 AM
May 2016

Memo in PDF: http://www.nicap.org/directives/UFOS-SeriousBusiness.pdf

Four names help tell "Why?": Mantell, Moncla, Wilson, Valentich.

The first three were pilots, officers in the United States armed forces. The fourth name was a young Australian air cadet. Each lost their life in association with UFOs. There likely are others. Here's a bit on them:

Thomas Mantell





Mantell Case (1948)

EXCERPT...

Mantell was an experienced pilot; his flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.

On 7 January 1948, Godman Field at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 feet (76 m) to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were received from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.

At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes. Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, "Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."

Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard already in the air—one piloted by Mantell—were told to approach the object. Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.

One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object &quot which) looks metallic and of tremendous size," but, according to Ruppelt in The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.

The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.

Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he supposedly blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.

Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, Ruppelt wrote that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon (Ruppelt 30). The other two sightings were the Gorman Dogfight and the Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter.

CONTINUED...

http://www.mufon.com/mantell-case---1948.html



Felix Moncla and Robert Wilson





Radar operator stated he watched the aircraft approach the UFO; then saw the two blips merge into one return on his scope; which then took off at a high rate of speed and out of radar range.

Marksville Weekly News

Avoyelles Parish has connections to a UFO mystery that goes back 49 years. Gordon Heath from Surrey, British Columbia was in Marksville recently to investigate the background of Lt. Felix E. Moncla who disappeared along with another crew member, Second Lt. Robert L. Wilson, over Lake Superior on Monday, November 23, 1953.

According to Heath, who is a UFO hobbyist, Moncla was on temporary assignment at Kinross Air Force Base in ...(sic. Michigan)... when he was sent to identify and unidentified craft over the Soo Locks, which is restricted airspace. Moncla, in an F-89C, pursued the craft for about 30 minutes flying at 30,000 feet over the middle of Lake Superior. He was flying about 500 mph when he was instructed by ground radar to descend to 7,000 feet.

When the unidentified craft was finally on radar it was noted that the two radar images, the UFO and the Air Force jet, were very close and at some point they intersected but only one remained. Heath says that the unidentified craft flew north and disappeared from radar.

Lt. Moncla's jet mysteriously disappeared without a trace.

http://www.nuforc.org/mancla.html


No remains of the crew or wreckage of the F-89C have been found.



Frederick Valentich



His late father holds the missing flyer's picture:



Delta Sierra Juliet? Do you read?

Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.

Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."

The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."

SNIP...

[font size="5"]ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTION OF MELBOURNE FLIGHT SERVICE [/font size]

The transcript portion of the communication between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Service as released by the Australian Department of Transport follows: (FS - Flight Service, DSJ - Frederick Valentich aircraft designation).
1906:14 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known traffic.

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I am, seems to be a large aircraft below five thousand.

1906:44 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, What type of aircraft is it?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I cannot affirm, it is four bright, it seems to me like landing lights.

1907 FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1907:31 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet, the aircraft has just passed over me at least a thousand feet above.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, and it is a large aircraft, confirmed?

DSJ Er-unknown, due to the speed it's travelling, is there any air force aircraft in the vicinity?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known aircraft in the vicinity.

1908:18 DSJ Melbourne, it's approaching now from due east towards me.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1908:41 DSJ (open microphone for two seconds.)

1908:48 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, it seems to me that he's playing some sort of game, he's flying over me two, three times at speeds I could not identify.

1909 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what is your actual level?

DSJ My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, and you confirm you cannot identify the aircraft?

DSJ Affirmative.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, stand by.

1909:27 DSJ Melbourne, Delta Sierra Juliet, it's not an aircraft it is (open microphone for two seconds).

1909:42 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, can you describe the -er- aircraft?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, as it's flying past it's a long shape (open microphone for three seconds) cannot identify more than it has such speed (open microphone for three seconds). It's before me right now Melbourne.

1910 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger and how large would the - er - object be?

1910:19 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now is orbiting and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got a green light and sort of metallic like, it's all shiny on the outside.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1910:46 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet (open microphone for three seconds) It's just vanished.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911 DSJ Melbourne, would you know what kind of aircraft I've got? Is it a military aircraft?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, Confirm the - er ~ aircraft just vanished.

DSJ Say again.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, is the aircraft still with you?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet; it's (open microphone for two seconds) now approaching from the south-west.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what are your intentions?

DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1912:28 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Melbourne (open microphone for seventeen seconds).

SOURCE: http://www.ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html



People who are interested in these subjects shouldn't be mocked. They are interested in learning about the unknown.
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
6. Wow, are you living back in the 70s......
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:52 AM
May 2016

Once again, I will ask you the same question I ask all the UFO crazies......

Give me the BEST link to a UFO story that you think is proof UFOs are real and aliens from another planet.

The BEST ONE. The one that has not been debunked and no one can explain. Pleae respond because I would LOVE to read it.

Wow, do I miss Philip J. Klass!


Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. Thank you, RKP5637!
Sun May 15, 2016, 09:16 AM
May 2016

Weird how this subject makes people think so illogically and act so undemocratically.

Going from memory: J. Allen Hynek related a story where he was attending an astrophysical conference in Canada. A couple of astronomers having a smoke outside noticed strange objects in the sky and entered the hall to tell their colleagues. No one inside wanted to go outside to have a look.

His problem with this was that the lack of investigation didn’t exhibit a true scientific inquisitiveness. He quoted physicist and philosopher Edwin Schrodinger who wrote, “The first requirement of a scientist is that he is curious. He should be capable of being astonished and eager to find out.”

-- http://www.openminds.tv/astronomers-see-ufos-081310/4787


Again, thanks for having an open mind and a Democratic spirit, RKP5637!

ETA: Some official documents re UFOs, courtesy NICAP: http://www.nicap.org/documents.htm

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
15. Thanks! For me, my zest and spirit in life has been researching/discovering without
Sun May 15, 2016, 09:29 AM
May 2016

preconceived biases/opinions.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
17. Totally missing the point, as usual. My comment had nothing to do with make believe, UFOs, etc.
Sun May 15, 2016, 09:41 AM
May 2016

As a senior technologist, one must keep an open mind. ... but, with all respect, if you want to argue silly points, I can just place you on ignore.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
8. Here you go.....
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:55 AM
May 2016

Skyhook balloon explanation[edit]
Having rejected the Venus explanation, Captain Ruppelt began to research other explanations for the incident. He was particularly interested in a suggestion by Dr. Hynek that Mantell could have misidentified a US Navy Skyhook[20] weather balloon. Others disputed this idea, noting that no particular Skyhook balloon could be conclusively identified as being in the area in question during Mantell's pursuit. Despite this objection, Ruppelt thought the Skyhook explanation was plausible: the balloons were a secret Navy project at the time of Mantell's crash, were made of reflective aluminum, and were about 100 feet (30 m) in diameter, consistent with Mantell's description of a large metallic object. Since the Skyhook balloons were secret at the time, neither Mantell nor the other observers in the air control tower would have been able to identify the UFO as a Skyhook. Furthermore, later research by Project Blue Book and UFO skeptics revealed that multiple Skyhook balloons had been launched on 7 January 1948 in Clinton County, Ohio, approximately 150 miles (240 km) northeast of Fort Knox.[2] UFO skeptic Philip Klass argued that wind currents at the time would have blown the balloons close to the area of the Mantell Incident. Additionally, when Captain Ruppelt investigated the case in 1952, he found that at least two observers in separate locations had reported viewing the object Mantell chased through a telescope, and both observers stated that it was a large balloon.[21]

Project Skyhook was legally linked with General Mills, the cereal company, Jean Piccard, the French Balloonist, and Otto C. Winzen of Winzen Research.[20]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
12. Great. It COULD have been a balloon.
Sun May 15, 2016, 09:09 AM
May 2016

But it COULD have been something else.

Mantell's colleagues reported that the combat veteran knew a balloon when he saw one.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. Curtis LeMay is one of those people.
Sun May 15, 2016, 04:42 PM
May 2016

Last edited Sun May 15, 2016, 08:57 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027298910#post35

Thank you for your kindness, Cooley Hurd. Your friendship means the world or worlds, as the case may be.
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