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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:09 PM May 2016

When people talk about Bernie not being a "real Democrat", think about this

From Borowitz yes, but right on point:

Integrity Disqualifies Sanders for White House

“Bernie Sanders’s failure to become a member of either major political party excludes him from the network of cronyism and backroom deals required under our system to be elected,” said Davis Logsdon, a political scientist at the University of Minnesota.


Hillary on the other hand is the complete opposite, perhaps the most connected politician to run for office in the past 50 years. It shouldn't matter if she's done more for the party if that means that she will put her rich and powerful friends' interests over the interests of the Democratic Party constituency and the American people.
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When people talk about Bernie not being a "real Democrat", think about this (Original Post) AZ Progressive May 2016 OP
I guess LBJ wilt the stilt May 2016 #1
+1. I think Clinton will be this generation's LBJ, in addition to C Rights, he pushed Medicare Hoyt May 2016 #12
shes so far from LBJ larkrake May 2016 #52
You obviously didn't know LBJ before those accomplishments. Hoyt May 2016 #53
he was rude and crude and a deal maker larkrake May 2016 #54
Sounds like what Sanders' supporters think of Clinton. She'll get it done, watch. Hoyt May 2016 #55
(paraphrasing) "For all I know those boys could have been shootin' at WHALES out there." cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #23
get the point wilt the stilt May 2016 #26
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #2
Wtf. seekthetruth May 2016 #4
Hillary and Trump are different sides seekthetruth May 2016 #5
+10 nt 99th_Monkey May 2016 #9
Nice. So true. kpola12 May 2016 #39
My goodness another one who needs a gluten free cookie nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #6
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #11
"full retard" JTFrog May 2016 #14
We would have even higher horses timmymoff May 2016 #31
"liberal values" like "you aren't an American if you support Sanders"? Goblinmonger May 2016 #41
Now we're "no longer Americans"? Isn't that special. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #17
You may not be happy to know that you remind of Bush the elder. LiberalAndProud May 2016 #21
nice Republican talking point there. liberal_at_heart May 2016 #29
All you care about is saying your talking points AZ Progressive May 2016 #35
Straight out of Karl Roves play book .99center May 2016 #36
Is this the new DU we can look forward to? Goblinmonger May 2016 #38
A long walk, a short pier, and thou. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #43
And I guess Hillary should be elected because she's always on the side of peace? seekthetruth May 2016 #3
More like her very large "piece" of the financial pie. libdem4life May 2016 #8
She should be elected (at first nominated, and then elected) because..... George II May 2016 #27
".....and that's the way it's worked for decades" seekthetruth May 2016 #46
And.... seekthetruth May 2016 #47
Oh? You mean the candidate with a majority of delegates in the first vote at the convention.... George II May 2016 #48
Prefer NEITHER. seekthetruth May 2016 #57
But hey, "the system works". 99th_Monkey May 2016 #7
I was about to post the same quote. bvar22 May 2016 #20
Totally untrue. See Small Victories - Bernie King of Amendments. Why post untrue stuff? snowy owl May 2016 #10
Bernie excludes himself from being a democrat Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #13
Right. seekthetruth May 2016 #15
If Bernie is not a Democrat in your book, bvar22 May 2016 #22
I didn't say he wasn't. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #24
^^^THIS^^^ seekthetruth May 2016 #50
Proof we need free education! timmymoff May 2016 #32
Thread Winner! bvar22 May 2016 #58
Can you show us this deep disdain please? pinebox May 2016 #44
Borowitz nails it - again Ferd Berfel May 2016 #16
He's a Democrat of convenience. TwilightZone May 2016 #18
I guess all of Bernie's supporters are "Democrats of convenience", too. w4rma May 2016 #19
It's begining to feel a bit inconvenient timmymoff May 2016 #33
I thought mostly they're independents WhiteTara May 2016 #42
But maybe the party needs an outsider? AZ Progressive May 2016 #37
I switched from Indy to Dem to caucus for Bernie, problem with that? pinebox May 2016 #45
Bernie probably also knows where the bodies are burie, Voice for Peace May 2016 #25
It would be awesome to see him go scortched earth... scscholar May 2016 #30
K&R! vintx May 2016 #28
If this is true, why should people vote for him? BzaDem May 2016 #34
The president should be elected by the people, not by corporate donors and the party establishment AZ Progressive May 2016 #49
Some people don't understand the first principles rock May 2016 #40
Some people don't understand the first principles of Politics. AlbertCat May 2016 #61
"Of course anyone who's been in politics since the 60's does, however. " rock May 2016 #62
God are you clueless! AlbertCat May 2016 #64
Thanks for illustrating my points rock May 2016 #66
Bernie's the best kind of Democrat--a *True* Democrat... NewImproved Deal May 2016 #51
Bernie's a traditional Democrat, Hillary a Third Way Clinton Democrat. AtomicKitten May 2016 #56
It would be interesting to see Bernie try to win in other less safe states BootinUp May 2016 #60
Integrity and courage can be shown or not shown in different ways, BootinUp May 2016 #59
He gets along with no one. Alienates everyone. He has alienated voters that do not vote for him. seabeyond May 2016 #63
Well thank God Demsrule86 May 2016 #65
 

wilt the stilt

(4,528 posts)
1. I guess LBJ
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:13 PM
May 2016

was terrible because he only made a couple of deals to get the civil rights bill passed. what BS.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
12. +1. I think Clinton will be this generation's LBJ, in addition to C Rights, he pushed Medicare
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:21 PM
May 2016

through.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
23. (paraphrasing) "For all I know those boys could have been shootin' at WHALES out there."
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:30 PM
May 2016

LBJ lied the nation into a war. That war fucked up this country for nearly two generations. Do a little research about how LBJ's cronies profited from it. Start with about 7,000 Bell UH-1 "Hueys". Where's Bell Helicopter? Oh yeah... TEXAS.

By the way, LBJ made the statement found in my subject line (about the Gulf of Tonkin incident) while drinkin' with some of his friends, and raucous laughter ensued...

Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

 

seekthetruth

(504 posts)
4. Wtf.
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:17 PM
May 2016

I guess all Hillary supporters hate environmentalism then with Her support for fracking.

Fuck the earth, right??

Response to Post removed (Reply #2)

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
14. "full retard"
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:23 PM
May 2016

Seriously?

You folks sure have shown some interesting liberal values up there on your high horses.



 

timmymoff

(1,947 posts)
31. We would have even higher horses
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:49 PM
May 2016

But Hillary's platform is to imprison those who need/ use marijuana. It needs more study says the person who takes money from the private prison lobby.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
41. "liberal values" like "you aren't an American if you support Sanders"?
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:26 PM
May 2016

I don't agree with the language choice, but the OP is one of the stupidest fucking things I've read on DU in a long time. And that's saying something. Sanders supporters aren't American? Gross.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
17. Now we're "no longer Americans"? Isn't that special.
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:25 PM
May 2016

Now it's "no longer American" to be passionate about saving what's left of democracy?

...."no longer American" to stand for peace? .. to stand for correcting income inequality?

Oh my. Panties in a bunch much?

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
21. You may not be happy to know that you remind of Bush the elder.
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:23 PM
May 2016

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."

You don't believe what I believe. That's unAmerican. or not.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
35. All you care about is saying your talking points
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:01 PM
May 2016

You don't give a damn shit about what's happening to this country.

.99center

(1,237 posts)
36. Straight out of Karl Roves play book
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:07 PM
May 2016

Were not Americans if we dont support Hillary's primary campaign. I hate to see what type of mud will be flung from Hillary when we dont support her wars or her cuts on SS . Can we expect the same unamerican labels that Bush and Rove threw around at critic's with Hillary in WH? She's picking up where Bush left off.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
38. Is this the new DU we can look forward to?
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:24 PM
May 2016

Anyone who supported Sanders is not an American?

Do you even think before you type things?

George II

(67,782 posts)
27. She should be elected (at first nominated, and then elected) because.....
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:46 PM
May 2016

...she won more delegates than her opponents.

Simple, that's the way it works, and that's the way it's worked for decades.

 

seekthetruth

(504 posts)
46. ".....and that's the way it's worked for decades"
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:39 PM
May 2016

No, it hasn't worked this way for decades because the Democratic Party has moved its platform ever so closely to the right, thereby causing a significant rift between the more conservative members of the party and its base.

Hence, the rift we're all seeing play out at the present moment.

You cannot ask me to vote for someone who doesn't hold my progressive values and stands rather for neoliberal values, any more than I can ask you to vote for someone who stands for neoliberal values versus more progressive values.

Socially (less the death penalty), I'm onboard with Clinton.

Any matters related to the environment, healthcare, foreign policy, money in politics, lobbyists, education, workers rights ($15/hour min wage), and a host of others.....we're worlds apart.

Get it?

 

seekthetruth

(504 posts)
47. And....
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:42 PM
May 2016

.....given the current state of affairs of our failing economic and social infrastructures (which are mainly influenced by economics), I believe that any social injustices have root from our finance (economic) system.

Hence, Clinton supporters ignore the root of the problem in our society -> THE ECONOMY.

Get it again?

George II

(67,782 posts)
48. Oh? You mean the candidate with a majority of delegates in the first vote at the convention....
Sun May 22, 2016, 08:43 PM
May 2016

....didn't get the nomination? And you prefer Trump over Clinton?

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
7. But hey, "the system works".
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:19 PM
May 2016

Logsdon said that Sanders might persist in his quest for the White House despite his ineligibility but that such an effort would be doomed to fail. “Our political system has been refined over the years specifically to keep people like Bernie Sanders out of the White House,” he said. “The system works.”

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
20. I was about to post the same quote.
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:15 PM
May 2016

In fact, I will because it is worthy of repeating:

"Logsdon said that Sanders might persist in his quest for the White House despite his ineligibility but that such an effort would be doomed to fail. “Our political system has been refined over the years specifically to keep people like Bernie Sanders out of the White House,” he said. “The system works.”


I thought Borowitz only did satire.
There IS no satire here,
just the plain truth.
 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
13. Bernie excludes himself from being a democrat
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:21 PM
May 2016

He hold deep disdain for the party. He is pretty open about what he thinks of democrats. No one has to say he is not a democrat. His actions say it.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
22. If Bernie is not a Democrat in your book,
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:25 PM
May 2016

then neither was THIS guy:

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be[font size=3] established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
---FDR, SOTU, 1944



Please note that the above are stipulated as Basic Human RIGHTS to be protected by our government,
and NOT as COMMODITIES to be SOLD to Americans by For Profit Corporations.


and neither was THIS guy:

This guy passed Medicare, Medicaid, The very successful WAR on Poverty. the Civil Rights Act, and all the programs of The Great Society that helped the Working Class and the poor.


So if Bernie is not a "Democrat" in your book,
then neither am I, because I will be PROUD to continue to STAND with the Father of the modern Democratic Party, FDR, and the other great Democrats of that era, JFK, RFK, LBJ!
Bernie agrees with them, and so do I!!!


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]



 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
44. Can you show us this deep disdain please?
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:47 PM
May 2016

If he holds deep disdain then why has he caucused with them for 30 years?

Please elaborate.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
19. I guess all of Bernie's supporters are "Democrats of convenience", too.
Sun May 22, 2016, 05:56 PM
May 2016

Maybe we shouldn't vote for the Anointed One?

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
37. But maybe the party needs an outsider?
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:07 PM
May 2016

Just like a corrupt police organization needs an outsider to clean it up?

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
25. Bernie probably also knows where the bodies are burie,
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:37 PM
May 2016

No doubt he's well aware of all the corruption in Congress, and who's crooked.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
30. It would be awesome to see him go scortched earth...
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:49 PM
May 2016

on all of the corruption. At this point, what does he have to lose?

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
34. If this is true, why should people vote for him?
Sun May 22, 2016, 06:59 PM
May 2016

If you actually believe this is true, shouldn't his supporters search for someone that can actually be elected? After all, this is not a beauty contest. This is an election for a powerful national office (who selects people for other powerful national offices). It would seem to behoove us to elect someone that can actually get elected.

On the other hand, if you don't believe this is true, and believe that he could have won the nomination (but simply didn't), I'm not sure what the point of the post is. (This is my view.)

rock

(13,218 posts)
40. Some people don't understand the first principles
Sun May 22, 2016, 07:26 PM
May 2016

of Politics. Not mentioning any names (as the ones that do know who I mean).

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
61. Some people don't understand the first principles of Politics.
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:07 PM
May 2016

Of course anyone who's been in politics since the 60's does, however.

Some people don't condone the first principles of Politics as Usual... as defined by today.

rock

(13,218 posts)
62. "Of course anyone who's been in politics since the 60's does, however. "
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:13 PM
May 2016

No, but they may think they do. Incidentally first principles do not require condoning, they just are.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
64. God are you clueless!
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:24 PM
May 2016

This delight in the awful, conniving, pay for play nepotism that is Third Way politics today is positively Machiavellian.

There's a candidate no one had heard of, who in a matter of months has majorly challenged and upset a PR candidate that has been running since the 20th century. (the 2nd time this has happened... one reason why the powers that be did everything, fair or unfair, to squelch the unknown) A PR candidate that might actually lose to an orangutan.
I think the non-PR candidate knows plenty.


"they just are"

a version of

"no we can't" change anything. Pitiful.


 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
56. Bernie's a traditional Democrat, Hillary a Third Way Clinton Democrat.
Sun May 22, 2016, 09:50 PM
May 2016

Self-professed Clinton Democrat, Alison L. Grimes, dodging whether or not she voted for President Obama.

BootinUp

(47,165 posts)
60. It would be interesting to see Bernie try to win in other less safe states
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:23 PM
May 2016

as a Senate candidate. Or for other Democratic-Socialists to try.

BootinUp

(47,165 posts)
59. Integrity and courage can be shown or not shown in different ways,
Mon May 23, 2016, 02:19 PM
May 2016

for example ( and I am not accusing Bernie of lacking integrity ) if a house or senate member refuses to advance legislation because they are concerned about challenges from the far left or far right, this can be seen as being a chicken and looking out for their own career. I point to the Bluedogs that courageously helped pass the ACA. And also to the Republicans that the tea party took down.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
63. He gets along with no one. Alienates everyone. He has alienated voters that do not vote for him.
Mon May 23, 2016, 06:15 PM
May 2016

The Democratic base. Congress. And I expect world leaders from what I have seen of the way he reacts, without homework.

He has done nothing to build an infrastructure to do a damn thing. He is not a Democrat. I do not want him. I have never seen a Democrat behave so poorly in any race, let alone a primary.

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