his support has grown over the past 6 months while hers as evaporated.

She needs progressives, yet her campaign has aggressively worked to sabotage the progressive movement at every turn.

I realize 5-6 months is an enter its in politics, but check her history... She almost always grows weaker as a campaign wears on. She starts off high and then either just hangs on or loses (see 2008). She could get a huge boost by moving towards progressives now. Waiting until Labor Day isn't going to work.

RCP Average 4/22 - 5/19 -- -- 52.0 43.4 Clinton +8.6

The latest poll listed has her up 14 points. Her average lead in polls taken in the past month is more than 8 points. Sanders' support in H2H polls has been dropping for the past month.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

The reasons "progressives" on DU give are born of the same RW propaganda machine that birthed Trump; there's nothing progressive about them.

That's news to me.

Talk to Democrats that are not part of the DU,and by the way why are you associating Progressive Democrats with RW prpaganda machine that "birthed Trump"?
Is that the script the Clinton campaign gave you?

Talking to Democrats in the real world,they hate Hillary Clinton..They say Hillary is not Bill and both of them have become corporate
puppets...
Many of them will not vote or vote for the Green Party candidate..So Hillary does have much to be concerned about because she cannot come close to winning the General without the Democrats that dislike her.

It happened in 2010.

But they're certainly progressive. You seem to want to box in progressives, and if they don't want to accept corporate ownership of the Democratic Party they aren't progressive in your opinion.

Sorry, that just isn't going to fly for millions of progressives. I'd prefer we let the GOP splinter into 3-4 third parties and let the progressive future of the Democratic Party take root and prosper.

You're the one who wants to box in progressives, by pretending that us Hillary supporters are not progressive.

I'm a progressive liberal Dem who supports Hillary.

But then maybe we just have very different views on what constitutes "progressivism". In my book, you can't have an egalitarian, progressive society without economic justice, something that is diametrically opposed by the very corporate/Wall Street interests which have funded HRC's campaign (and all of her previous runs). Bernie has shown the true progressive path towards financing political campaigns, and those who refuse to embrace are simply choosing to side with corporations over people.

Nothing progressive about that, in my opinion...

At least not intelligent and progressive.

In which election will you give us your OK?

you'd be saying "Helping (Jeb, Cruz, Rubio, Carson) is not the kind if "stand" a progressive takes.

In other words, sit down and shut up and accept that corporations now own the party.

Do as you're told and you might (not will, but might) get a crumb or two from the 1%/Corporate table. Maybe, but don't count on it.

never, ever ask for anything more than what corporatists are willing to suggest they might, some day, possibly, but probably not, allow.

No single payer health care. Ever.

No college without crippling debt.

No stopping fracking.

No regulations on banking.

No end to trade agreements that ensure massive job losses, but also ensure huge corporate profits.

Just do as you're told and accept candidates who don't even have us (the non-1% on their radar unless it is an election year).

Way to engender enthusiasm.

even ask for anything for those under the 1% is hard.

Voting for someone who will ensure that my children's future is, well, bleak at best, is hard.

Voting for someone who only cares about the non-corporate persons during an election year is hard.

Voting for someone who is in favor of fracking is hard.

Voting for someone who has never met a war she didn't like is hard.

Yeah, I live in a swing state, so I'll have to hold my nose and vote for her because Trump would be slightly worse, but she won't get a penny of donations from me nor will she receive a second of my time in volunteering, both of which I've done for every election since I turned 18.

What I've learned as a Sanders supporter this cycle is that there is no hope for change, the Dem party is wholly owned by corporate interests and will serve them above all else. So, I'll vote for your candidate, but I will do so knowing that it is all futile. The two parties are pretty much the same at the top, the difference is in the window dressing.

I guess you don't make minimum wage then.

you'll end up with...maybe 9.

If you start at 15, you will possibly get 12.

And how is Clinton going to magically get congress to work with her?

It would be the same for anyone with a "D" after their name, Sanders included.

I just have zero confidence that Clinton won't simply make a sharp Right turn to "get things done". Getting things done is fine if they are things that help people, but not so much if they are the current Republican party's wish list.

Also, the minimum wage is one issue. What about college? What about fracking? Trade agreements? Outsourcing (which she has been strongly in favor of in the past)?

You got my admission that I'll feel forced to vote for her. Isn't that all you people (Clinton supporters) want?

That was the first sentence of your rant. You started out with something totally not true.

She's willing to go to bat for one thing.

One. Thing.

No health care, no college without crippling debt, etc.

American workers may not be able to afford fabulous overseas vacations like a jet-setting Clinton, but who says their jobs can't travel overseas and enjoy another culture?

That appears to be the Clinton jobs program... combined with her trade policy. Just ship 'me overseas. That's what her corporate sponsors have directed her to do...

The issues I care most about are health care, trade, and college. These are also areas where her stances are significantly different from my preferred candidate.

And I've already said I'll cast my damned vote for her, what more do you want? Need it signed in the blood of my kids?

I will never, ever donate to her. She has plenty of corporations and billionaires to donate to her and her super PAC. She has no need of my money.

I will never, ever phone bank or canvass for her. I simply don't believe in her and would feel like I was being dishonest by pretending otherwise.

But, I have no real choice but to vote for her as I live in a swing state.

Why is that hard to understand? Just because one votes for a progressive doesn't mean they are "really" voting for a conservative nor does it mean that they were never a progressive. It means they want their vote counted for a progressive.

Now, if a candidate wants to get the votes of said progressive, one might try convincing them rather than shitting on them or telling them they really aren't progressive if they don't vote for you. But, one's mileage may vary.

president, they aren't progressives, no matter what excuse they give.

but Clinton can't, is voting for Clinton voting for Trump?

And what is about "you aren't persuading people with this" isn't being understood by Clinton supporters? You do know that this is the equivalent of "you better fucking vote for me!" Oh, gee, I'm sorry. I thought I was a reasonably intelligent person with beliefs and values and stuff, but when you put it so eloquently, I guess your strong arm tactic is going to persuade me to vote for you.

And what makes you think I'm trying to persuade you. You can vote for whoever you want. But I'm not going to pretend that people who vote for Trump or third party are progressives.

There are plenty of right-wingers in the world, and I know I'm not going to change many of their minds.

and this "you aren't a progressive" thing is just BS? Who knows according to that logic.

But in this scenario progressives aren't casting a vote for Trump. They would likely vote Green. Trump isn't the Green candidate. So they are voting for a progressive, not Trump.

And it's doubly offensive that you are indirectly calling progressives right-wingers.

and given the fealty of HRC and her ilk to corporate interests, I suspect many more will look elsewhere if she in fact wins the nomination.

The Democratic Party should be the natural home for progressives, but if the leadership chooses to cozy up to forces that oppose progressive ideals and policies, well, there are other options. Just being a Democrat doesn't make you a progressive. Trump was a registered Democrat most of his life, and George Wallace was a lifelong Democrat. You can say the two are one and the same, but reality doesn't jibe with that assessment.

Unless they are dumb enough not to figure out that a Green vote is a throwaway. Which is hard to believe anyone could be so clueless.

The Democratic Party is the natural home for progressives. That's why I'm there.

Label them whatever you want, they are fucking fed up and have no interest in the same old shit the democrats keep pushing. So just keep on labeling and shoveling it.

She won't have their support. Her supporters can argue until they are blue in the face over it but there is a disconnect in this country and they simply don't understand it. People are downright pissed off on BOTH sides and in an age of outsiders, Hillary represents the status quo.

I suppose we'll hear the old battle cry of how Hillary has more votes but who is voting in those primaries? Dems who are in a bubble is who. Most of America doesn't participate in caucuses or primaries and then you add in the fact that many are "closed", it is the furthest scenario away from a GE-like atmosphere as possible.

Bernie has cross over power, Hillary has none. I suppose nominating the weaker candidate is a strategy for winning these days in the minds of some. Should she be the nominee, come November, there will be a great deal of heads exploding.

By now she hates the left with the fury of ten thousand rabid wolverines on meth, we are traitors, turncoats, unappreciative peasants and filthy hippies.

If she's half as smart as her supporters say she is she would move Left, win the election. Then just go back to lining her pockets and assisting her 1% pals in doing the same.

I just can't see how a full-on, corporate-owned campaign puts a Democrat in the White House in 2016 or beyond. The people are sick and tired of this shit.

Fooled into supporting and voting for the worst foreign policy disaster in American history.

Despite the fact that Bush holds degrees from both Harvard and Yale I don't think being fooled by him is an indicator of intelligence, just the opposite.

Maybe she thinks war is the answer....

It certainly benefits her corporate masters...

Yeah, she was fooled, that's the ticket. Just a naive young woman from flyover country and she was overwhelmed by the smooth talking intellectual might of a New England patrician with multiple Ivy League degrees.

If only she had been aware of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy but back home in Arkansas such things were not part of the political gestalt.

Poor gullible Hillary! She won't let those nasty mean Republicans trick her into another needless war... Oh, wait a second, Iran and Saudi Arabia are going at it! We can't just sit on the sidelines! I mean, think of all that OIL!!!!

I hate Trump but I do believe he is less likely to intentionally go to war than Hillary. Now he may be stupid enough to start a war accidentally...

People are going to think long and hard about their choices and then vote for the better candidate for President. Sensible people will, anyhow.

the high court for decades.

As people stop and consider the election more carefully, they'll see why electing the Democratic nominee is the only reasonable answer. A few people will pass on this, but there are always a few who do that. It won't matter, in the end, I believe.

state, I have no problem with you voting for anyone but Trump. (I don't want him racking up a big popular vote even if your vote won't affect the electoral college.)

If Trump narrowly wins Ohio and, as a result, the election I want no part of that responsibility.

I'm sick of people telling me THEY can vote their conscience, but I CAN'T.

Some people just need to be heard complaining bitterly that the system will never properly serve them.

More reasonable folks know that it will be eons before the system is truly human, if ever. In the meantime we make the best lemonade we can given the lemons we're offered.

They despise her. She cannot get elected without them. But I'm sure she will continue to bash them and talk about how they're not needed to win. Good luck with that. Hillary will lose and it will be no ones fault but her and the establishment.

She is who she is, and no one would believe her if she said anything different, she lies, er, panders, as a matter of preference, unless she is speaking in private, for lots of money.

So IMO all she can do, now, is bash enough in the hope that that she brings in GOP voters, and/or attempts to out-election-fraud the GOP.

Gallup is an outlier. If you look at more than one poll, Democrats are at 36% and climbing. Independents are down to about 31%. Democrats have been the largest voting bloc in the country since late December/early January.

This makes perfect sense, of course, if you use a little critical thinking. Independents are registering as Democrats and Republicans to vote in closed and semi-closed primaries. So, their numbers are dropping; the others are rising. Math.

Registration trend, based on 1200+ polls: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/party-identification

"Indies despise Hillary"

Also false. Recent CBS poll has them 51/33 Hillary vs. Trump. Indies aren't the monolithic bloc so many people seem to think they are.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-poll-hillary-clinton-leads-donald-trump-but-voters-view-both-unfavorably/

How'd that work for ya? And don't bother, you just got yourself a one way ticket to the dust bin.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151943/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

Last edited Tue May 24, 2016, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

paid Brock trolls. MY ANSWER TO YOUR PLEA THAT WE BOW DOWN TO THE LIKES OF YOU IS SIMPLY THIS: GO **** YOURSELVES.

while you're still on bended knee before the corporate and Wall Street interests that are financing Team Clinton.

I'll let you in on a little secret... THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO LET YOU GET A TASTE. You are just a means to an end, and you will be kicked to the curb as soon as the votes are tallied. Unless you are part of the 1%, there is NOTHING HRC or her ilk will ever do for you.

I am more than willing to go without the support of such people in the GE.

Sid

yup...it's takes everyone wanting vote to create a winner....the reality is that so far so good, despite all the efforts Bernie and his team have gone to.

Unless they want Trump as the next President. Which is ridiculous.

If that happens, and I think it will, she wins with ease.