2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders is filled with contempt for everyone who doesn't agree with him.
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/23/bernie_insults_voters_he_must_drop_notion_that_everyone_who_disagrees_with_him_is_corrupt_or_a_dupe/This is the premise of Sanders political revolution argument: That the only reason voters hadnt backed a socialist in the past is they never really had a chance to.
In reality, most people who disagree with Sanders are not bamboozled or corrupt. In most cases, they simply have different priorities or values.
There has certainly been ample evidence of this thinking around here, where the very idea that Hillary is a left-of-center politician, let alone a progressive, is routinely laughed at and derided.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Do you have a link to this piece?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)for the link.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)I don't like Amanda Marcotte but a stopped clock is right twice a day I guess
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)for the link.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)More mindless, linkless projection.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)They have a very narrow view of what is politically correct -- which is defined by whatever Clinton says or does.
Slightly more conservative than Clinton? You're a right wing crazy.
Slightly more progressive than Clinton? You're an "angry leftist."
It's very depressing.
And that "writer" is complaining that Sanders supporters are narrow minded?
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts).
JudyM
(29,251 posts)apcalc
(4,465 posts)doesn't do editorials. This is one writers opinion.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Sorry, Bernie: I love you, but this is over and getting embarrassing
http://www.salon.com/2016/04/20/bernie_has_run_his_course_the_sanders_campaign_has_stopped_being_about_winning_and_is_now_mostly_about_whining/
Bernie has run his course: The Sanders campaign has stopped being about winning and is now mostly about whining
http://www.salon.com/2016/04/19/bernie_sanders_isnt_a_democrat_and_thats_a_real_problem_when_he_needs_democrats_for_his_revolution/
Bernie Sanders isnt a Democrat: And thats a real problem when he needs Democrats for his revolution
There are many writers that submit pieces to Salon. The fact that you choose to promote the pieces that support your view is no surprise. We all do that. To believe that it's anything more than that is a stretch.
MADem
(135,425 posts)starting to play this tune:
That was my point. It wasn't "just one." There are more than that, but I didn't want to pile on overmuch.
It's over.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)don't agree with him dismissively and even with contempt. There are plenty of stories from people back when he was a mayor, and he's famous for lecturing his congressional colleagues on the proper way to think about issues.
CrowCity, very rigid views and feelings of strong superiority and righteousness, as well as rejection and hostility toward those who don't join them, are strong characteristics of a far-left extremist personality, along with absolutism and often authoritarianism. Of course, there's a range in everything, from mild to strong; and although I've decided Bernie clearly shares the extremist tendencies of some of his followers, I at least haven't been able to guess how strong or weak they are.
Sanders has been able to vote with the Democratic caucus over 96% of the time for 25 years, while at the same time frequently expressing pride in not being a Democrat. I'm just not actually sure if that denotes some ability to flex and cooperate or something else.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)I have trouble seeing any major differences between Sanders and Clinton. I don't think either one of them are corrupt and I think that either one of them would support the same basic goals. Clinton might be more likely to succeed in implementing those goals, but if she is elected, I think Sanders will be supporting nearly all of her proposals. I think it was a real mistake for Sanders to label himself a socialist (particularly since he doesn't seem to be a socialist), but that is water under the bridge. Sometimes we do things that foreclose some of our future opportunities. At this point it doesn't make much difference - Clinton is going to be the nominee and Sanders is not going to run as an independent.
Sanders (and his supporters) will come around. It just takes time.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Wow. And the sad thing is I think you actually believe this.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)And, while I don't see large differences between the proposals of Clinton and Sanders, I do see significant differences between their supporters. Sanders seems to have been successful in persuading his supporters that he is just an ordinary citizen up against all of the politicians of the world. I know that both Clinton and Sanders are political animals with much experience. I know that Sanders doesn't see himself as Little Bo Peep, but a lot of his supporters seem to see him that way.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Who could have guessed that he would be a bitter sore loser after a statement like that?
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)From anotehr article by the author:
Yeah she never insults or dismisses those who disagree with her.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Oh--and you FORGOT THE LINK to that quote. It provides the context you so sorely need. She's not tolerant and understanding of BIGOTS--not sure why that is a problem for you.
Here, I found it for you--so we can all have the full flavor of the context:
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/18/christian_right_voters_get_in_line_behind_trump_because_conservatism_has_always_been_their_true_religion/
Christian right voters get in line behind Trump, because conservatism has always been their true religion
Rationally choosing to support a candidate because hes better at advancing your wholly irrational anti-sex, anti-gay, anti-woman agenda is the perfect distillation of Christian conservatism. But some are going a step further than that, and pretending that Trump is one of their own.
They love a convert because its what their faith is all about, Ralph Reed of the Faith & Freedom Coalition told the New York Times.
Of course, youd have to be the most naive person alive to think that Trump is actually a convert to the conservative Christianity that the religious right claims fuels them.
Trump doesnt even bother pretending to know the basic lingo and seems unaware that Christians believe we are all sinners that need to ask for forgiveness. Everyone knows that. Its the most basic tenet of the faith, however imperfectly practiced by its followers. Thats like not knowing that Muslims use the word Allah to refer to God or not knowing that Jesus died on the cross. Trump likes waving the Bible around, but its clear that the gesture is similar to when he ate a taco bowl as outreach to Hispanics: Whatever the intention is, the message sent is clearly one of contempt for people Trump clearly believes are beneath him....
I think you confuse an accurate assessment with an insult.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)mean spirited narrow minded hypocrisy.
I'm far from a defender of Trump or the right. I actually agree with the writer on many things.
But she's a goddamn hypocrite. She claims to be ever-so-progressive, but her vision of liberalism is limited to the very narrow spectrum that Clinton --- the Goldman Sachs, Monsanto Candidate -- and the so-called "centrists" represent. She attacks anyone who deviates even slightly to the right or left from her self-defined only "political correct" position. Everyone outside of that narrow little spectrum is excoriated.
Meanwhile, he own writing is a perfect example of what she whines about. She gripes that Sanders and his supporters are closed minded jerks who see anyone who disagrees with them as assholes and dupes....But her writing is filled with examples of dismissing anyone who disagrees wither her as being assholes and fools.
Then in that otehr column she shares this little bit of "understanding" of people with a different viewpoint than her own.
She has no problem with the contradiction between her own claim that anyone who votes for Trump is "naive" and her accusation that Sanders claims people who disagree with him are "duped."
Vindictive? Compared to her form of expression, Sanders is a pink fluffy bunny.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You ARE defending Trump -- you pulled out (without link or explanation) a little snippet from her article, and hoped to stoke some outrage with it.
Anyone who votes for Trump IS a close-minded jerk--and likely a racist, a xenophobe, and an asshole to boot. I've not met anyone who votes for Trump who can't be persuaded with almost no prodding to say something offensive about some minority group or immigrant sector.
Have you read the TOS here, lately?
This is an article by a woman with profound powers of discernment, yet you're getting all upset that she calls Trump as the overwhelming majority of us here see him.
Hmmm. I don't think you understand the goals of this site. We want to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans--not defend racist scumbags like Donald Trump.
And, as for your assertion that she is somehow being "mean to Bernie" you might want to read what you cite:
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'm not defending Trump or the Christian right.
Just pointing to the hypocrisy of a columnist who blasts everyone that does not fit into her narrow view of things and then claiming they are nasty and narrow minded. And a writer who practices the same sins she is criticizing Sanders and his supporters for.
I think you're smart enough to know the difference between defending Trump and Christians and using her attacks on them as an example of her own double standards.
MADem
(135,425 posts)up a quote without citing it, not me. I was the one who did the work and found out it was talking about Trump.
It's only reasonable to question your motives when you conceal such an important element of the quote you--not me, YOU-brought to the table.
You're the one decrying the writer for saying bad things, and the bad thing you cite is about that lunatic Donald Trump.
There's nothing "bad" about calling an ass an ass.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There's nothing wrong with calling an ass an ass -- but if one does it in a way that's also being a hypocritical ass, they are also open to criticism.
Her criticism of the Christian right would be the same whether the subject was Trump or not. Point is she's doing to them what she claims Sanders does.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That big fat headline didn't give you a clue?
Christian right voters get in line behind Trump, because conservatism has always been their true religion
Armstead
(47,803 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Rather like most people do.
But since she hasn't opined that someone you favor is The Way and The Light, she's getting some shade from you.
That's fine, that's YOUR opinion--but let's not pretend this is anything more than you not liking her particular perspective about someone you prefer.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Yet another Republican tactic adopted by conservative Democrats
Autumn
(45,105 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Confused and frightened when the line between "winner" and "loser" isn't clearly defined. Not qualified to write on modern American politics.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)Many university students today aren't open to opposing opinions.
Bernie is just following the kids' lead.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Note of interest: This quote is often attributed to John Steinbeck. However, I think he would agree with it.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)I thought the corrupt oligarchs were the elites. This whole time it was the people calling them out for screwing over working and poor Americans that are the bad people. Imagine my embarrassment.
DebDoo
(319 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Make up your mind!
frylock
(34,825 posts)Hahahahaha! Damn, I'm good!
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Another right wing dumbass argument or at least a 1st cousin of one. You know the good old chestnut that liberals aren't really inclusive because their idiotic, failed, and generally bigoted nonsense has no place in a western democracy. This time just omit the bigotry and the same lame argument is sitting there.
Guilty as charged, I have nothing but disdain for demonstrably failed, stubborn wrong-headedness that destroys our future abuses our present while making much of our past progress for naught.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I though, am filled with contempt for this.