2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOK Email Obsessors, let's take a look at BERNIE's "Scandals."
Here is how the right wingers will frame up Bernie and pound him to pieces if he were the nominee:
1) Self avowed "socialist socialist socialist" (which will become "communist communist communist" .
2) Statements showing "love" for Castro and the Sandinistas.
3) Jane Sanders "running that college in VT into the ground, not being liked there, and being forced out".
4) Bernie writing what amounts to "rape porn" as a grown man in his thirties.
5) Bernie voting to send toxic waste to Texas in order to benefit VT.
6) Bernie voting for "pork" defense spending if it benefited VT.
7) Bernie spending YEARS on and off unemployment, bumming around in odd jobs, etc.
If you don't think all this and more would be a "liability" for Bernie in the general election, you are sadly mistaken. They would have a field day with Bernie's past and his present status as a self-described socialist.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)like.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)In old videos, microfiche, and newspaper clippings.
Hillary has them all. Why hasn't she used it? Because she doesn't want to anger his supporters.
The media have it and won't use it. Why? They want a horse race. Higher ratings, more clicks = more $$$$.
The Republicans have all that and more. They've investigated every week of Bernie's adulthood and they've found a goldmine of controversy.
But there's not been a peep about Bernie from the Repubs who are funding anti-Hillary ads and giving Bernie a complete pass.
Why is that? Because they'd love to face Bernie in the GE.
They would destroy him with this stuff. Think what they did to John Kerry and Mike Dukakis. They are rabid.
The supers know this. That is the primary reason why they won't switch to Bernie unless he leads in the popular and pledged delegate votes. If Bernie goes down in flames, the down ballot races go down with him, and many, many supers are candidates in those races.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)liberal from boston
(856 posts)You do know that Senator Sanders was a former Professor of Political Science at Harvard University Kennedy School of Government and at Hamilton College. some but not all of Senator Sanders many accomplishments:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1428616/-Bernie-Sanders-What-the-Hell-Have-You-Done-for-Us-Lately
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)But that's not the point of my post.
My point is that there is enough controversial material for the Republicans to destroy him. I'm not concerned about things that
I've mentioned. For example, Bernie was a conscientious objector. If I were in his situation during the Vietnam War, I'd be one too. I admire him for taking that stand. I don't care about his associations with Marxists or Communists.
But that's not the point. The point is what the Republicans will do with that.
They successfully portrayed John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, as a traitor. They swift boated him.
They used the Willie Horton case successfully to destroy Mike Dukakis's chances in the 1988 election.
All they need is something to distort, exaggerate and if they can get away with it, falsify.
Bernie has enough in his biography for them to do just that.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I especially love the years on and off unemployment because that would be me, mostly off though since I was self employed a lot and even though I paid it double, I did not qualify to get it.
Sorry no one offered him a few hundred K for speeches that he now wants kept secret.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)are you really insulting most of the US who have been unemployed at one time or another? good luck with that one.
vintx
(1,748 posts)the ones they know their candidate will need to win.
Bernie wins with lefties and independents. That difference seems to escape them.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)1st, Trump has supported socialist/communist regimes to a much Yuuuger degree. Check the label on that tie. And, I was surprised shocked to hear comrade Trump saying the profits from pipelines should be shared nationally.
next...
I think a little wee campaign on Ollie North and the Contras would shut that down pretty quick.
I'm guessing the high voter turnout age is well aware of the nastiness that took place here. No one wants to bring that up and dig Ronnie further into the ground.
next?
KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)All the above falls on Clinton and the votes and policies she has endorsed.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)TimPlo
(443 posts)or informed enough to know that. For many HRC people if it was not said by her it is a lie. Even then they thing the VAST RW shadow organization has the means to clone Clinton and have the double say the bad things she has said on video.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)0
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)He has voted more times than Hillary on military action. A policy he has voted against, the Brady Bill five times, we are having on average 80 Americans killed daily by gun violence. Yes the policies Sanders has supported has resulted in deaths. We are still seeing deaths in Afghanistan, he voted for more involvement there. He loves to vote for MIC contracts, their products results im deaths.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)But it was bogus. The VRWC is a real thing. Ken Starr wasted millions of taxpayer dollars to hurt a foolish young woman and try to eliminate an effective Democratic president. And there was nothin'...
So they kept trying and trying, each time coming up with zip.
You wonder why some of us don't believe the current crap-fest? Because of the hefty record of Right Wing lies.
And now we have to put up with "Democrats" carrying buckets of seriously old swill on behalf of the Right, topped off with some new swill.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)but that won't stop those desperately trying to keep HRC's wrongdoing a secret from slandering a good, honest, and decent man - Bernie Sanders - who, unlike his opponent, didn't go into politics to get rich.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)Nice try.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)this bugs me every time I see it. It seems clear that he was writing a critique of rape culture. He didn't say it was good that people had those fantasies -he said it was a response to our culture.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And yes, it has been mischaracterized- deliberately i believe, by people who are smart enough to know better.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And awkward and whatever else you want to say negative about his writing. But it was not rape porn.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's a pretty lame smear.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)And people with any amount of brain cells could refute it, if they wanted to.
Also, the people who would be most offended by it have already seen it. Republican voters certainly wouldn't care. And feminists will at least generally be able to see that it isn't rape porn.
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)intheflow
(28,478 posts)However, with Trump and Clinton running neck-and-neck for who has the higher unfavorability rate, if Trump says it, as the party figurehead, people will assume it's bullshit. And vote Sanders.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)I might get the timeline a bit wrong - but young Berner - 20's (was it 30's?) graduates from college and is disaffected by the greed on one hand, and the lack of change that he had fought for in society, checks out and goes for the relative wilds of Vermont.
No one has a job for Bernie Sanders in a pretty radically monotone state, except sweeping coffee house floors and printing off some pamphlets and delivering. I have absolutely no idea if this is what went down, but I used to go down to Vermont to ski in the 70's, and I was one of those long haired guitar toting kind of people.
So, your experiment with the new money maker - x-rated Harlequins - it was promising cash on the back of all the corner store matchbooks. Again, no idea if this happened, but I can imagine. You want some independence and freedom, so self motivated is a good thing. If you are still offended, go google that whole Charlie's Angel's era and find me something innocent that was selling besides Pat Robertson.
. btw - that's independent - and not particullarily a socialist model - but maybe he wouldn't be unemployed if there were a more socialist model, but then he wouldn't be who he is - which is awesome - because he really can speak the truth from the heart.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Not a romance novel.
treestar
(82,383 posts)they never are.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Better write some fucking text to make your lameass point this time. All you've got so far is a large economy bucket of fail.
Bob-o the Clown
(35 posts)lmbradford
(517 posts)didn't amount to much. He is still going strong.
NEXT????
riversedge
(70,244 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)F'n Hillaryous.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)As in hard verifiable evidence that would stand up in a court of law?
Fuck no you don't.
@ U
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Here are the links to the FEC citations and some of the responses from the campaign.
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/542/201603300300040542/201603300300040542.pdf
http://docquery.fec.gov/dcdev/fectxt/1056008.txt (which can be accessed on this link under "view micellaneous document" http://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00577130/1056008/)
In response to a separate letter from the FEC citing violations of campaign finance law: http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/988/201602110300034988/201602110300034988.pdf
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/917/201603319012213917/201603319012213917.pdf
That you haven't heard about it shows how poorly he's been vetted.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)As of this moment, only ONE candidate has the FBI digging into their shady practices while being the top administrator of a Federal Department, is facing the strong likelihood of being indicted on Federal charges and it sure as fuck ISN'T Bernie Sanders.
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Had a TS clearance in the military (yes. I did).
You do not screw around with classified material....no exceptions. If I had been caught mistakenly taking a cryptological out of the communications ( or "radio room" - served on two ships), I would've lost my job. No questions. I would have been regulated to the shittiest work imaginable on the ship (cleaning up after a bunch of 18 - 30 year old guys.....not fun.
Clinton should be indicted, fined, or (to be fair) spend a few years in minimum security prison.
You just don't fuck with classified material. It's drilled into your head....and anyone in government (especially those who have served) know this.
angrychair
(8,702 posts)Those are minor in grand scheme of things and issues his campaign are addressing. Be that as it may, those type of issues and fines didn't stop PBO from being president twice:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/07/obama-campaign-fined-big-for-hiding-donors-keeping-illegal-donations
An FEC audit of Obama for America's 2008 records found the committee failed to disclose millions of dollars in contributions and dragged its feet in refunding millions more in excess contributions.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)And they are hardly minor when he has made reforming campaign finance central to his candidacy but doesn't follow the most basic rules. His campaign accepted single contributions far in excess of legal amounts. The sloppiness of the accounting is astounding, truly unprecedented. It will take a couple of years for fines to be levied since the FEC gives candidates ample opportunity to comply with the law.
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/542/201603300300040542/201603300300040542.pdf
http://docquery.fec.gov/dcdev/fectxt/1056008.txt (which can be accessed on this link under "view micellaneous document" http://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00577130/1056008/)
In response to a separate letter from the FEC citing violations of campaign finance law: http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/988/201602110300034988/201602110300034988.pdf
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/917/201603319012213917/201603319012213917.pdf
frylock
(34,825 posts)And people say that Bernie's nothing like him.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... before a single one was posted.
His supporters do not believe that there is anything that St. Bernie has ever done in his entire life that would be used as fodder against him by the GOP. They honestly believe that he has never uttered a word or taken an action that anyone could possibly find untoward in any respect.
This became evident early on, when anyone raised a question about Bernie's self-identification as a "socialist" being a problem. They all immediately stated that no one thinks of "socialism" as the negative they once did. No one - as if. Exactly how politically naive do you have to be to believe that?
It's the same with everything. Bernie has NO negatives, NO baggage, NOTHING in his past that the Republicans could dredge-up and cast a negative light on. Nothing.
It's this kind of "thinking" that explains why, even now, the BS supporters refuse to see the reality that Bernie will not be the nominee. All the delegate/vote numbers in the world are meaningless to them. They have their own "math"; they have created their own "reality". And believing that Bernie a saint - literally - is just a part of that "reality".
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Trump drags her through the mud 24/7.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... will be a whole new experience for Hillary, because that's never happened before.
She's been publicly demeaned for decades, and is now on her way to the White House.
Bernie, on the other hand, can't even handle the pressure of an interview that doesn't go his way.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Want to pick a date?
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)I'm going with never - how about you?
TwilightZone
(25,472 posts)All 11 hours of it.
Then, tell us who did or didn't lose his or her shit.
Clinton's been dealing with the likes of Trey Gowdy for 25 years. You think she can't deal with Trump? Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, Sanders got baited into a spat about a debate that was never going to happen.
treestar
(82,383 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Hint it ain't Hillary and it sure isn't trump
treestar
(82,383 posts)in order to come up with a counter. If Bernie were the nominee, in the alternate universe where he is, then they'd be demanding that the Republicans follow their rules. We know how that would work out. They'd probably demand changes in the Electoral College or something, because it will turn out it's unfair to Bernie. In the alternate universe where Bernie was President, they'd discover Congress and demand changes in the Constitution to make the "corrupt system" go away so Bernie could do what he wants.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)You have a knack for understatement.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... and the True Believers are going into Desperate Freakout mode.
I'd say I feel sorry for them, but it would be a lie.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)Clinton supporters are not desperate--we are winning.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)"Exactly what she has done" is use every dirty trick, lie, cheat, steal, threaten, bribe to achieve the appearance of getting the "most votes." Exactly as she always does. It's all coming home to roost.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... by using a completely unsecured, unapproved, private server in her private residence without so much as a password protection to do Top Secret State Department communications on.
Pretend it isn't so, till the indictment comes down. No sweat off my brow.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Those facts are already on the table. She may not get indicted, IF she withdraws from the race and leaves public life permanently. Unless they start digging into the pay for play shit with The Clinton Foundation while she was SoS. Then all bets are off, the GOP Congress will lock onto that like a junkyard pitbull and tear her to shreds and take Bill down with her.
dchill
(38,505 posts)Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)So try some other spin.
rock
(13,218 posts)Unlike the alleged scandals for Hillary.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)She set up a private email server to thwart FOUA and other transparency and lied about it and you think that equals Bernie's "transgressions?" You're desperate!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)He once J walked!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Another thread started by you says he is. But, well, here you are going odd like it's day one of primary season.
Now, either you're lying in that other thread and don't think that this primary is finished, or you're just keeping on with this in a desperate need to try to destroy Sanders past the primary. Which would still make your other OP a lie, since in it you claim to like the guy.
Which is it? Still fighting the primary, or are you just trying to tear down someone for the "crime" of running i nthe first palce?
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)So if we include Bill's baggage with Hillary's then yikes! But I'll let you have that one (as if I'm sort of arbiter of things. I'm not). In fact, I'll go ahead and acknowledge them and pretend like the world is just two shades of gray: Black and white. So, gasp, it's all true!
He could be involved in about 20 more scandals and still be cleaner than both Trump and Clinton.
Response to RBInMaine (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,593 posts)Among other things, during the 1970s and 80s, Sanders regularly called for public takeovers of various businesses, including utilities and the oil industry. Sanders advocated seizing money from corporations and from one of Americas richest families. And, as a mayor, Sanders made forays into foreign policy that included meetings with representatives of hostile nations, rebel groups and Canadian separatists.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It seems that even considering Bernie's flaws is against the TOS.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Every one of the "scandals" have already been tried here and else where thanks to Hillary's attack dog David Brock. They went absolutely no where. So what you're all really saying when you say "the Republicans will bury him with these" is that the Republican side is smarter and better at campaigning than the Hillary side. So yes, we're mocking you all for trying to bring them up again.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Every candidate has flaws. Bernie's haven't been vetted much. But it seems that can't be even said! You'd be mad if you were mocked for Hillary's exaggerated "scandals" that get promoted.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)There are a number of things I diverge with him on. He's not as strict on guns as I'd like (no politician is), he's often times not aggressive enough (too nice, tends to get along too much), I'd like to see him focus more on addressing climate change and social issues. I never for a second viewed him as perfect or a savior.
What I do see in him is the best politician I have had the chance to vote for in my life time. What he has that sets him apart from the rest is a genuine interest in helping others over himself. He has a healthy dose of empathy. Many politicians show empathy, but they let ambition override it. Having empathy over ambition is a rare trait in a politician (especially one so high up) and something that I connect with on a core level. It's something that can't be faked.
It also helps that almost every part of his platform looks like something I would have wrote myself.
So no, I don't view him as perfect, but I can't think of anyone I would rather have leading our movement at this time.
As for the attacks you think will bury him, I say bring them on yet again. Just be ready to back up your claims with proof. Because we're ready and willing to dispel them with evidence as we have done repeatedly in the past.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)to your station to "fund raise" for your Foundation and avoiding FOIA requests.
Most of that list doesn't even raise my eyebrows, but Hillary's is downright criminal.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Wow...weak as fuck.
QC
(26,371 posts)It's just like all the others!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'd prefer to accept that as a given, and look at the overall pros and cons of each candidate ....IMO Clinton falls short on that scale.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Obama hasn't been vetted. Wait till the right wingers tear into him.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Makes him more connected to the average American voter than ever.
vintx
(1,748 posts)as those are all "issues" that would turn them off.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)goofy, but you know what? They can get pretty mean. There's plenty of footage of hippos charging small boats.
So if you're on vacation someplace where there are hippos, keep an eye out.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/15/hippo-charges-safari-boat-video_n_6479480.html
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)being candidates. bernie has done no such thing. there is nothing, nothing, and nothing that will keep him from winning and be inaugurated in january. nothing.
but, on another note, only bernie & our progressive democratic socialist movement will keep the working class and our planet from being run into the ground. this movement will spread around the world when more and more working class people take back their power.