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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:16 AM May 2016

Hillary proves that "winning at all costs" is not a value that Americans should have

Not to mention winning despite showing women to be as corrupt as men and Democrats to be as corrupt as Republicans. Will daughters and granddaughters be proud of Hillary once they know how corrupt she was?

There's a point in time when one should chose to maintain their honor and dignity rather than try to win it all.

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary proves that "winning at all costs" is not a value that Americans should have (Original Post) AZ Progressive May 2016 OP
She thinks she's entitled to the presidency TheCowsCameHome May 2016 #1
She felt that way in 2008, too Carolina May 2016 #42
This is a disgusting misogynistic post. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #2
It damn sure is. This 'act like a Lady' shit bravenak May 2016 #4
They wonder why we say some supporters are this way.. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #6
You see the one earlier about how the 50's was better? Smh bravenak May 2016 #7
How life was so wonderful in 50's... Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #9
They smell it alright, they just blame the funk on the oligarchy bravenak May 2016 #11
They should be embarrassed for themselves. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #16
LOL!!!!!!! NanceGreggs May 2016 #17
They aren't even hiding it anymore. n/t JTFrog May 2016 #10
Women can not be competive and fight off RWNJ that try to accuse Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #14
No, this post is not. Dude, I know you said English isn't your native language JimDandy May 2016 #12
I think I understand. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #15
Typical Hillarian tactic AZ Progressive May 2016 #23
We want the first woman president to be a role model for women, not a corrupt entitled elite J_J_ May 2016 #40
No, it's the truth Carolina May 2016 #43
She's so far past that point, she is irredeemable. JimDandy May 2016 #3
bernie is the one trying to win it at all costs - his desperation is showing big time nt msongs May 2016 #5
Sadly woman are not immune to being as bad as men. Silver_Witch May 2016 #8
Let's talk about dignity KingFlorez May 2016 #13
Well, exactly. NanceGreggs May 2016 #19
At least he hasn't brought up assassination. And had the primaries been open, he MillennialDem May 2016 #22
I don't care. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #24
The thing is the party contains a lot of garbage, and if you guys aren't mad MillennialDem May 2016 #25
Nailed it! Thank you! NurseJackie May 2016 #39
Will sons and grandfathers be proud either? Juicy_Bellows May 2016 #18
Unbelievable how the Hillary folks jumped all over this in desperation! k8conant May 2016 #20
When the hell did Democrats become proud of corruption? AZ Progressive May 2016 #21
Hillary is not corrupt. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #26
Thats quite a lot of denying reality there... AZ Progressive May 2016 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow May 2016 #33
She is very corrupt. 840high May 2016 #32
Thanks for your input Mr. Trump. We understand quite clearly that you despise the Democratic... NNadir May 2016 #28
That sounds as smart as a caveman AZ Progressive May 2016 #29
In my mind it's as clear as a bell. I consider all Against Hillary = Supporting Trump. NNadir May 2016 #30
When was it popular to be incredibly simple minded? AZ Progressive May 2016 #31
You're speaking on subjects you know nothing about, rather like Bernie Sanders when he discusses... NNadir May 2016 #35
So you think that social democracy is a fraud? You think that FDR and LBJ were failures? AZ Progressive May 2016 #37
God, you're strange. In this election season, after 20 years on this site and nearly... NNadir May 2016 #47
Know-it-alls like you may not realize how many mental blindspots you have, intellectuals think AZ Progressive May 2016 #48
A lot of Americans can't wait another 8 years for economic relief AZ Progressive May 2016 #38
"When was it popular to be incredibly simple minded?" Bad Dog May 2016 #36
Lets see what Sanders does MFM008 May 2016 #34
Ultimately, Hillary will be mentioned in the history books right after Geraldine Ferraro and Sarah Vote2016 May 2016 #41
Doesn't matter since Hillary will never be 45. -nt- NorthCarolina May 2016 #44
Yes she will. Tavarious Jackson May 2016 #45
No, but I don't want Hillary equally as bad. NorthCarolina May 2016 #46
People can't be in an election without trying to win the election gollygee May 2016 #49

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
42. She felt that way in 2008, too
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:39 AM
May 2016

She was in it to win it but it was supposed to be over soon (i.e. by Super Tuesday in March). But when that didn't happen because BHO was challenging her coronation, she went into kitchen sink mode... praising McCain's leadership and experience while deriding Obama as just someone who gave pretty speeches.

She will lie, pander, flip-flop, cheat... do anything to win. The email server issue is indicative of her machinations to skirt the law. Despite State regulations and IT warnings, she set up a private server in her home to conduct State business and also use her SOS position to make deals for the Clinton Foundation slush fund, pad her pockets for this POTUS bud and avoid scrutiny.

She's despicable and her corruption is positively Nixonian. Not a role model for my grandnieces

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
9. How life was so wonderful in 50's...
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:27 AM
May 2016

We should go back to the 50's.. I can't believe they don't smell their own shit.

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
14. Women can not be competive and fight off RWNJ that try to accuse
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:31 AM
May 2016

If they do they lose their honor and dignity... Yeah this post is crap.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
12. No, this post is not. Dude, I know you said English isn't your native language
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:28 AM
May 2016

but it's important to understand the meaning of at least the words you want to accuse others of being.

 

J_J_

(1,213 posts)
40. We want the first woman president to be a role model for women, not a corrupt entitled elite
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:11 AM
May 2016

Some of us don't want to spend the next four years with Republicans impeaching Hillary because this time they have plenty of evidence.

I guess some of us have morals and expect more from people.

People who support Hillary must be "i got mine F you" types because the rest of us have figured out the status quo is not okay for the majority of Americans, particularly young people coming of age in this mess.

We don't have 4 years to screw around with Hillary's corruption.

We have problems to fix in this country and for some of us it is a matter of life and death!

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
43. No, it's the truth
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:41 AM
May 2016

And the the truth about HRC is something many clearly can't handle and many willfully ignore... So they scream misogyny

 

Silver_Witch

(1,820 posts)
8. Sadly woman are not immune to being as bad as men.
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:26 AM
May 2016

I grieve when men betray us I grieve greater still when women do. Woman knowing what we know and having been being abused as we have been abused makes such betrayal too much to bare sometimes.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
13. Let's talk about dignity
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:30 AM
May 2016

It's about losing with class as opposed to losing with anger and bitterness. It's about respecting the will of the voters.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
22. At least he hasn't brought up assassination. And had the primaries been open, he
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:50 AM
May 2016

likely would have won.

Do you know how many millennials are independents strictly because they hate the establishment in both the GOP and The Democratic Party?

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
25. The thing is the party contains a lot of garbage, and if you guys aren't mad
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:58 AM
May 2016

enough at BS now I can't imagine how mad you would be had he run third party.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
18. Will sons and grandfathers be proud either?
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:39 AM
May 2016

I see you're getting a bit of flak but if you remove the gender from it you'd still get shit.

Bottom line is, she is doing herself and her supporters absolutely zero favors with her litany of poor decisions.


k8conant

(3,030 posts)
20. Unbelievable how the Hillary folks jumped all over this in desperation!
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:46 AM
May 2016

I wonder why they support plutocracy.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
21. When the hell did Democrats become proud of corruption?
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:47 AM
May 2016

Hillary is taking this party down farther than I thought it could go.

 

Tavarious Jackson

(1,595 posts)
26. Hillary is not corrupt.
Sat May 28, 2016, 01:59 AM
May 2016

She is actually one of the most honest there is. You think after all this MELTDOWN on Bernie side people will not think he is mentally not capable to lead? After all this mess he is doing?

Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #27)

NNadir

(33,529 posts)
28. Thanks for your input Mr. Trump. We understand quite clearly that you despise the Democratic...
Sat May 28, 2016, 02:09 AM
May 2016

...candidate. Thanks for your input.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
29. That sounds as smart as a caveman
Sat May 28, 2016, 02:17 AM
May 2016

Against Hillary = supporting Trump !? Your not allowed to have more than 2 choices?

NNadir

(33,529 posts)
30. In my mind it's as clear as a bell. I consider all Against Hillary = Supporting Trump.
Sat May 28, 2016, 02:38 AM
May 2016

Most sane people would agree I think.

I am uninterested, in general, in the trivial protestations of people who don't see this. Generously, if such a person were to live in extremely bright climates I hope I can assume that the insanity does not derive from intrinsic disability, such as a lack of intelligence but is rather the temporary result of heatstroke temporarily frying one's brain.

Enjoy the holiday weekend. Wear sunscreen if you go out too much, as melanoma is on the rise.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
31. When was it popular to be incredibly simple minded?
Sat May 28, 2016, 02:46 AM
May 2016

As if your own economic future is not a big deal? Would you like to be homeless or an economic leach on your relatives? You haven't been with homeless people and see how much they suffer on a daily basis.

NNadir

(33,529 posts)
35. You're speaking on subjects you know nothing about, rather like Bernie Sanders when he discusses...
Sat May 28, 2016, 03:14 AM
May 2016

...climate change. This single issue is why I never took Sanders seriously, since his views consist of thirty year old rhetoric that has failed at great expense, in particular to the poor, since his program is involved with subsidizing rich assholes in McMansions who put solar cells on their roofs, while people working two or three minimum wage jobs to feed their kids have to struggle to pay their electric bills.

Somehow, I don't think that living in Lilly-White Vermont among the bourgeois, Sanders knows shit from shinola about poverty. I've spent a considerable amount of time in Vermont. It's basically a resort state. His supporters don't seem in general to understand very much either about poverty, and are rather provincial in their outlook, not that this stops them from lecturing others on subjects, again, they know nothing about.

Despite your dubious assertions about what I know about poverty you're rather clueless on that score.

If you have written a post somewhere on the internet remarking on the proportion of people who live on $1.25/day, please direct me to it, as I'm sure it will be, um, telling.

I have written such a post, and it contains 67 references, many of them to the primary scientific literature. The subject of broad human poverty and energy policy - on which I work obsessively at my own expense - elsewhere. Current World Energy Demand, Ethical World Energy Demand, Depleted Uranium and the Centuries to Come.

I feel no need to apologize for my views to a Hillary bashing Trump excusing fool. The problem with the petulant fools who continue to bash Ms. Clinton in service to that egotistical poorly educated senile old bastard is that they have a certain moral superciliousness. It may be fine to be a little supercilious if one is right, but when one is wrong, it's, well, damning.

Stay out of the sun this weekend. It can be bad for your health, and try not to run the air conditioner too long if the wind isn't blowing. Enjoy the weekend.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
37. So you think that social democracy is a fraud? You think that FDR and LBJ were failures?
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:52 AM
May 2016

And that neoliberalism is the future?

You fail to realize that this is more than just Bernie, this is about the future of our country, and Bernie is not perfect but he looks like a saint compared to every other politician. Bernie supporters are tired of politics being run by bullshit artists and Hillary is one of the biggest.

Hillary won't do shit about helping ordinary Americans in more than incremental ways that won't upset the rich and powerful. A lot of Americans are suffering in this country, and Bernie has stepped up because noone else has. Bernie is not perfect but noone else has the guts to stand up for the 99%.

America has morally degraded and I'm not even sure that Bernie could save it. I am relatively young and I feel like pathetic assholes in Washington that only care about the rich and are seemingly tolerant of madness are ruining my future in this country. I don't want to be forced to move to another country where I may have second class status, but if I have to do it I will. This country is already full of assholes and chumps and it's only because this is the only country I know and have been a part of that I tolerate it, but anything else can push me over to leave it.

NNadir

(33,529 posts)
47. God, you're strange. In this election season, after 20 years on this site and nearly...
Sat May 28, 2016, 10:22 AM
May 2016

...20,000 posts, I've begun to finally use the "ignore" button. At the conclusion of this post, I will certainly add the author of this Trump promoting diatribe to it.

Were this my website - and it isn't of course - I would ban the purveyors of specious, mindless, and vicious attacks on the Democratic nominee.

I am a D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T, and I suspect that any intellectually weak attempt to associate support for the former Secretary of State (and the next President) Ms. Clinton with disregard for FDR and/or President Johnson is, frankly, as ignorant as sin.

In my close to 20,000 posts here, and thousands of posts elsewhere, I made it very, very, very clear that in my mind the penultimate Democrat representing what I regard as Democratic values was Eleanor Roosevelt. Her husband has his flaws, but he is generally considered by most historians to have been the second greatest President in US history, a ranking with which I agree.

Now. I can imagine some smug asshole when confronting Ms. Roosevelt were she alive today carrying on stupidly about how she was rich and therefore clueless; she was indeed a wealthy woman. To add insult to injury in the minds of these vapid people, Ms. Roosevelt, unlike Ms. Clinton, was born rich, and might have, and certainly was expected in her time, to have lived a non-working life of leisure. But work she did, and for me, in the work she did she defined integrity and devotion to justice that clueless bastards, Republicans and a certain class of people now writing to my distress on this website, know nothing about.

Rather than spewing vitriolic diatribes on the internet, one would be advised - if one is ignorant - to open a history book. From where I sit, most Sanders supporters are functional illiterates, whether the subject is the science of climate change, or, as in the present case, history. Unfortunately I see no impetus on their part to broaden their intellectual horizons, they'd rather just obviate their ignorance.

But like I say, I have no use for people who are engaging in de facto Trump support as they bash Ms. Clinton. We're done. I'm an old man and I don't need to raise my blood pressure by listening to de facto Trumpsters.

Welcome to my suddenly growing "ignore" list, which in this year has grown from zero to about 10 people, and is sure to grow further as more primitive thinkers carry on as we see here.

Have a nice weekend.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
48. Know-it-alls like you may not realize how many mental blindspots you have, intellectuals think
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:12 PM
May 2016

they are so smart when they are not, which is why they tend not to be as happy compared to others and actually often are not that more successful than others at life.

From: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150413-the-downsides-of-being-clever

If ignorance is bliss, does a high IQ equal misery? Popular opinion would have it so. We tend to think of geniuses as being plagued by existential angst, frustration, and loneliness. Think of Virginia Woolf, Alan Turing, or Lisa Simpson – lone stars, isolated even as they burn their brightest. As Ernest Hemingway wrote: “Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.”


The harsh truth, however, is that greater intelligence does not equate to wiser decisions; in fact, in some cases it might make your choices a little more foolish. Keith Stanovich at the University of Toronto has spent the last decade building tests for rationality, and he has found that fair, unbiased decision-making is largely independent of IQ. Consider the “my-side bias” – our tendency to be highly selective in the information we collect so that it reinforces our previous attitudes. The more enlightened approach would be to leave your assumptions at the door as you build your argument – but Stanovich found that smarter people are almost no more likely to do so than people with distinctly average IQs.


That’s not all. People who ace standard cognitive tests are in fact slightly more likely to have a “bias blind spot”. That is, they are less able to see their own flaws, even when though they are quite capable of criticising the foibles of others. And they have a greater tendency to fall for the “gambler’s fallacy” – the idea that if a tossed coin turns heads 10 times, it will be more likely to fall tails on the 11th. The fallacy has been the ruination of roulette players planning for a red after a string of blacks, and it can also lead stock investors to sell their shares before they reach peak value – in the belief that their luck has to run out sooner or later.



A tendency to rely on gut instincts rather than rational thought might also explain why a surprisingly high number of Mensa members believe in the paranormal; or why someone with an IQ of 140 is about twice as likely to max out their credit card.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
38. A lot of Americans can't wait another 8 years for economic relief
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:56 AM
May 2016

Neither can America wait another 8 years to fight back against the big corporations and the rich that are making life unbearably harder and harder for Americans. Millions of lives are being ruined just to feed the fatcat lifestyles of the 1%.

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)
36. "When was it popular to be incredibly simple minded?"
Sat May 28, 2016, 03:37 AM
May 2016

Ever since Reagan got elected. Part of his appeal was his supposed plain speaking, "There you go again," was the response to Carter's cogent arguments about healthcare, and it worked. Then America gave us Dubya twice, John McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate and now we've got the spectre of a Trump presidency.

If that wasn't enough, after Britain voted Churchill as Britain's greatest Briton, narrowly beating Shakespeare, Brunel and Nelson, America chose Ronnie as the greatest American. Not Jefferson, Roosevelt, Washington, Sam Clemens or anyone remotely worthy of the title. Incidentally when Britain was asked the same question we chose Homer Simpson, and you can see why.

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
34. Lets see what Sanders does
Sat May 28, 2016, 03:00 AM
May 2016

After June 14.
Right now he is resorting to threats and demands against democrats, not FELLOW
democrats since he has resorted to his real anti - democrats agenda.
What he is threatening now is nothing more than a vendetta and has nothing to do with an
agenda for fellow Americans but an agenda for the glory of Sanders.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
41. Ultimately, Hillary will be mentioned in the history books right after Geraldine Ferraro and Sarah
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:16 AM
May 2016

Palin and right before the first woman president (Warren 2020!).

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
46. No, but I don't want Hillary equally as bad.
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:58 AM
May 2016

My dislike for both of them as candidates, based on what they represent and support, is equal.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
49. People can't be in an election without trying to win the election
Sat May 28, 2016, 04:46 PM
May 2016

I think Hillary is roughly where most politicians are, not more corrupt and not less corrupt.

"I'm shocked, simply shocked to find that presidential nominees actually try to win! How horrifying and wrong!"

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