....I look at conservative damage and want to end it.....

Perfection is not attainable in a society with 330 million people, each of whom has different ideas and priorities.

There is no perfect candidate. There is only a direction. Which fork in the road will you take? That's the question in presidential elections.

I like getting some stuff in better shape...but the real issue in next 4-8 years is the supreme court and only if sanders and his followers get some type of understanding that is the ISSUE and sanders will NOT be in the whitehouse and both sanders and his followers have a choice..... have hillary name the next 3 supreme court judges or have trump.....if they want trump...god help all of us and their real hate of america is truly exposed

but sanders will NOT be in the whitehouse under any scenario

I've made the same assessment, and will be campaigning for our nominee. Too much is at stake to do otherwise.

Like Hillary. It was supposed to be Hillary/Bush. I recall how giddy Ed Rendell was about a year ago talking about the upcoming Clinton/Bush re-do. Unfortunately for them, the GOP apparently doesn't have as tight a control over their election process as the Dems do (probably because TPTB never expected to need it), and the Bush half of their planned kabuki theater rematch didn't pan out for them....I mean even "please applaud" didn't help. Now all they have is the Clinton half, and an election script that will never play out as they had assumed.

have a voice in that. Doesn't that seem so to you? This year, we had Clinton and Sanders. In 2008, we had Obama and Clinton. After all those primaries and a national convention one becomes the nominee of the party.

Does the "establishment" have a voice in it? Sure. But so do the people. This year, they're choosing Clinton over Sanders, by 3 million votes and almost 300 pledged delegates.

There were choices in the primaries. There will be choices in November. In each case, we vote for the better choice, as we see it. In November, it's always clear that the Democrat is the better choice, it seems to me. This year will be no different.

is not on the ballot in some fashion in November, there is really no "better" choice for rank and file citizens, just bad and worse.

If I develop cancer, I'll probably have to choose between chemotherapy and a quicker death. Bad and worse. Which should I choose?

Of course it would be better if I did not get cancer, but I really can't do much about that. Some people have to face that decision.

There are always choices. You can make a choice or you can refuse to choose and let others choose for you. Which will it be for you?

Your analogy fits in a way that I don't think you intended. Which is worse quicker death or chemotherapy? I think its debatable. I also think that sending a message to the Democrats that we won't tolerate the continuation of "the third way" might be the lesser evil. It might be worth taking a chance on surviving the Trump Presidency for 4 years. I'm not going to vote for Trump. But I'm not willing to vote for Hillary. I'll go Green if possible.
My analogy is that we are like frogs voting on whether to be boiled slowly or quickly. I vote for quickly. At least then there is some chance that we will know what's happening to us in time to do something about it. Don't focus on the next four years. Think about the next 40 years.

don't vote for our nominee or vote for trump.....I'll take bad over worse any day and not sit back and complain about the choices at this point....

2004: Howard Dean
2008: Hillary

I vote for the Big Dog and for Gore in their years, but was never really invested in the primaries at the time.

I hope we succeed in defeating Trump. It's going to take work, though. He's running his campaign like a reality show, and those are very popular in this country, it seems.

decide the elections...there is a 10-12% band of the voting public that make the difference every election cycle....

all that hard to figure out....why I see sanders as a mechanism that could destroy our country....would make me sad for my kids and grand kids as the effect could last generations

Lots of history behind us.

I don't think your opinion is reasoned at all. I think it's just status quo/establishment zealotry talking.

I've been voting since 1976 and I see Hillary as what you call a mechanism that could destroy our country.

Because beliefs are a spectrum...and unfortunately Hillary is on the wrong side of that spectrum for me. I can vote for someone with differences, but some differences are too large to accept in a candidate.

At that point, voters simply have to choose or opt out of the decision. Opting out is not a possibility for me. It may be for you, but not for me.

And that doesn't answer my question.

One of those two options will win. The other will lose. You can help make the decision or walk away and let others decide for you, but in November there will be just two options available. One will win. It's our choice, collectively, as voters.

You can pretend that there are other choices, but you know there are really not any other choices that make any difference in the outcome. Outcomes occur whether you participate or not. You have to choose. Participate in the decision or don't. In the end, you will be dealing with the outcome.

The only thing binary right now is your way of thinking. But the further to the right you go, the more things look black and white.

a 3rd party candidate will sifts votes from one or the other major party candidate....like perot did in 1992 that cost bush senior reelection....like nader sis in 2000 that cost gore the election....neither perot or nadar had any chance to win under any version of reality but their running had an impact...

they should run better candidates.

not my problem

So yeah...good point?

There is no way to get to the pinnacle in the world of politics without offending someone on the way up. We need to realize that is a part of 'the game' and hope that as contests resolve themselves, so to do the past offences.

We have a minuscule amount of influence in the outcome, individually. Collectively, we get to decide between two options in November. Two. Probably none of us thinks either option is ideal. But that's the choice we have to make every four years.

Like many people, I think I know what would be the best course of action going onward. I have my own ideas of how things should go. But, I'm just a schlub in Minnesota. I'm never going to be in charge of much of anything. So, every election, I get to choose between two imperfect options. Neither is ideal, based on my opinions of how things should be. One will win.

Elections are outcome-oriented things. There will always be an outcome from any election. I vote for the better outcome, because those are the choices I have.

Maybe I could have gone into politics long ago in my life. I chose not to. Maybe I would have succeeded, but I'll never know that. So, like everyone else, I have my tiny input into outcomes. That's what I have. That's my choice.

Was your logic "Well, we can't have nice things"?

Or do you just really, really want another president who's "too stupid to be president"?

I chose to support the one I thought had a better chance in November. I did that in 2008, too. I was right then, and I believe I'm right now. You don't agree.

In 2008, Hillary Clinton made a mistake that I thought was deadly to her chances. As you point out, I did say she was "too stupid to be President" when she held up Bobby Kennedy's assassination as a reason to stay in the race. I supported Barack Obama, who won and is finishing up his second term.

In 2016, of the two flawed candidates, I have chosen to support Hillary Clinton. That's my choice. You made a different one. But that's all but over with right now. We have another choice coming up. I know what I'll do. Do you?

Many of her supporters lost me when they brushed that horrible crap off as if it was nothing and refused to hold her to account. I still can't comprehend that anyone in our Party could think that way, and I can't figure out what happened to her memories of the many people who have told her the actual facts since prior to Bill's election. It was outlandish, frightening and I hope she was willfully pandering because the alternative is cognitive problems and that's terrifying. But that was not discussed.
Had Bernie claimed George Bush was the hero of Katrina and the rescuer of New Orleans, I'd have handed him his ass on a plate and DU would have crucified him. But what she said was worse and it was brushed off with memes and mockery. That was not right.

None of us had any control over how people voted.

I hate this stupid expression, but "it is what it is".

And I still differ with him on many issues.

being obstructed by a Republican Congress. I always wonder what might have been possible had we turned out in 2010 to take back the Congress, and continued to do that in 2012 and 2014. But, that's water under the bridge.

Is Obama perfect. Oh, no...nobody is. But, I'm proud to have supported him.

And now we have a gerrymandered Congress we won't take back until 2022, and then only if we can take back some state legislatures and governorships in 2020.

west coast got bluer than before. Anyone who really likes winning elections would ask why that is. The loses in 2010 were regional and specific to States with more 'moderate' Democrats. They were not national and the more liberal States did not have that low turnout issue.

Now, return to the narrative of your choice. But those who like to win might consider what I'm saying.

There is never a "perfect candidate." Candidates, after all, are human and all have fallen short of the glory of perfection.

Sorry. I support neither.

Unfortunately for you, that choice won't affect the outcome unless you decide to vote for someone from one of the two parties in November. If you don't, then you won't count. You'll get what you get. I can't do that. I have to participate, because there is always an outcome that will affect my life and the lives of others.

You, of course, will do as you please.

to make the decision. If that's OK with you, that's an option for you. It's not an option for me, though.

actively opposed my own rights while claiming that God Himself agrees. It was a pleasure I'd love to repeat in November.

clumsy political process. Inexorable, the process is.

a history of bashing me using their faith, which they don't really practice themselves. That's what I will continue to do.

No one has to believe EVERYTHING someone says, but they should have SOME faith that the person is capable of the job.

You realize that there will be a President elected, right? There will be an outcome. You can participate in it or decide to simply let whatever happens happen. Up to you. I know what I'll do.

Right now the two candidates leading in the primaries do not fit the bill.

You have to convince people to vote for a candidate. You are working your ass off to convince people to vote against a candidate, and then just assuming that everything else will magically fall into place.

It worked terribly in 2014. It worked terribly in 2010. It worked terribly in 2004. It worked terribly in 2002. It worked terribly in 2000. And you're still following the same strategy despite the long list of failures.

What worked in 2008, and to a lesser extent 2012? Obama convinced people to vote for him. His campaign was not based around not being McCain or Romney.

If your argument refers to Republicans at all, you need to go back and rework it.

Btw, this is why being untrustworthy is a huge problem: You can't campaign on "Clinton says she will ______", because so many people do not trust her to keep her campaign promises.

I'm not part of any group in this election. If I write it, it's my opinion, and my opinion only.

Now, I'm certainly suggesting voting for a candidate in November. That candidate is Hillary Clinton. I'll be campaigning for her, too. I want her to win. In consequence, Donald Trump will lose.

I want people to vote for the better candidate on the ballot. I'm pretty sure I was clear about that in my post.

you will find similar themes come up in many posts by many different authors. You'll also find that there is no formal requirement to join a group of people who are making the same argument.

On some social issues I agree with Clinton 100 percent.

But on many otehr issues regarding Wealth and Power and War and the Environment it's more like 35 percent -- and never sure because she keeps shifting

A movement must begin with the people. A group of angry rowdy protestors are not going to do it. The "Yippies" back in the 60's were able to do it because they used humor, intelligence and charm. Abby Hoffman, Tom Hayden, etc. were able to get many of the people on their side because they were so likeable (to many of us anyways). People should study how they did it.

I've met Abby Hoffman and Tom Hayden. Long ago in DC. My opinion of them as individuals might be different from yours.

In the meantime, there will still be an election in November that will determine quite a bit about how the next four years go. That's what I'm talking about.

nt

in any November who believed exactly as I believe,

I have never blamed or given credit to any President, ever, for my lot in life

And I find most people who do are ignorant fools

not everyone has the capability of setting the course for his or her own life. That's an unpleasant fact that always affects my decisions about politics and elections. I'm a privileged person, being a white, straight male with a degree. I've been able to set my own course, but I know many, many people who have not had that privilege and have never been able to set a course for themselves.

My life is about me, but my choices in elections are not necessarily about me, specifically.

I've never run for President myself, and never will, and I would be the only candidate who was totally in line with my beliefs.

However, there needs to be a reasonable congruence between us. Personally, I'm done with voting for a lesser evil. I'm done with voting for evil candidates.

There is still a man in the race who aligns pretty closely with what I believe in, and I'll vote for him, thank you very much.

not voting for them. I'm tired of saying to myself. :I voted for this ?"

I will always "go to the booth" I will however not vote for candidates or measures that I don't support when I get there.

Any president's opportunity to lead the country in positive directions is contingent upon who is in the majority in both Houses of Congress, which philosophy is in the majority on the Supreme Court, world events beyond U.S. control, the normal business cycle of the world and US economy (expansion-crisis-recession-recovery) and many other factors.
For me choosing a candidate to support is not a popularity contest. I don't need to like the person that I vote for; I don't "like" most people who go into politics in the first place. I vote for who I think can assemble the strongest team of major advisors who share my personal social, economic, domestic and foreign affairs philosophies.
Thus far in my life that has always been the nominee of the Democratic Party.