impact just yet, but the difficulty Hillary has had among voters is that she is perceived as pervasively untrustworthy.

This certainly doesn't help her in that area.

the two major parties' frontrunners are not exactly their first-pick favs.

and I am not kidding

...and then HRC will have no credibility except to her loyal followers and it's not enough to carry her to victory come November.

Once HRC secures the nomination, those Wall Street speeches will start to leak; not all, but enough to do serious damage. When this happens, the unknown becomes even worse in the minds of the public. ~to Mittens refusal to release his tax returns - one imagines worse than probably reality. A bad report from the FBI, even if no indictment is recommended will be the final nail in the coffin.

On the bright side, I do think HRC will pick up some of Bernie's support - the Democratic Party loyalist; but she will fail with the Independents miserably where trust is imperative. One cannot win w/out the Independent vote. Fear of Trump has little effect vs. someone with no credibility. I think this Fall election could have the lowest turnout ever and that favors the pugs.

Why the desperate talk of this is a coup...started yesterday. She will not emerge as the candidate. And it has nothing to do with polling or votes, and all to do with the scandal. I almost expect an LBJ moment

There are talks on background I am sure of how to spend more time with her lawyers. I won't be shocked if a pardon carrot is getting or will be dangled

If the FBI's results of their criminal investigation are as serious as we both believe, then I don't think the AG dares offer her a pardon, the political collateral damage would likely be too high. They may offer her a plea deal that allows her to avoid jail time.

One of the reasons I think the investigation has taken so long is that the FBI wants an air tight case on multiple felony charges on both Hillary and some of her aides. Given the time, money and effort, I can't see Comey being ok with a pardon or a slap on the wrist. I would suggest that any attempt to do so would cause Comey to resign in a loud and very public manner and saying something along the lines that there was overwhelming evidence of multiple felonies being committed and the AG and the President have refused to press charges.

Felony conviction equivalent. It would be not popular with the services...but that would be a way to avoid the politics of a trial. It could include a condition to prevent her running. That is why I think it will be dangled. Potential exposure would be life in her case

I think the average American will take a dim view of a pardon being given to Hillary when they know if it had been them who committed the same crime, the average American would be spending quite a bit of time in jail. Combine that with the current dislike of the career politician, the long term implications could be interesting. Regardless, it's interesting watching history being made.

Let's not start with hyper partisans. This is a highly technical story.

Why wait until the last minute? The basic contours of the case have been known publicly since March 2015. The reason it has taken do long to release the FBI report - which will knock her out - is that Bernie still has a theoretical route to the nomination. After that last piece is in place, the size 14 shoe drops.

But I think soon. This has ahem accelerated. Scandals have a predictable rhythm

Everyone will have had a chance to cast a primary vote. All legal and democratic-like. Who can complain. All the process that's due, and all that. They can confirm the White Knight when she rides into the Spectrum in Philly.

And so far it has been the wrong choice

It's either Liz or the Donald. I sure as hell hope we haven't been played about Warren. She's really a huge unknown, particularly about foreign policy.

But at times I wonder if deep down they want to lose

One thing is clear from election history since 1968. We should not assume they know what they're doing.

These people seem to forget this

whichever candidate who does the most convincing act of the anti-candidate in 2016. And that isn't Hillary.

The electorate is not going to vote for somebody under investigation

That is leaving the usual inside baseball press. Tne IG report has entered the popular press that soccer moms read. Oopsie

thinking particularly of Andrea Mitchell and the Morning Joe crew.

I'm a bit surprised Democratic leaders are surprised -- surely they know how she operates. Maybe they're horrified by how bad it looks.

and like the frogs in the boiling water, all of a sudden they're realizing that they're cooked.

Her big strength so far has been her foreign policy experience, but this just pulls the rug right out from under her.

So many people have been making so many excuses for the Clintons for decades, and all of a sudden, the Empress has no clothes.

it looks like a bumpy ride on the peace train. That's if she gets selected, and personally I think that looks more unlikely as more time goes by.

Mitchell accepted Hillary's explanation--which to many of us was foolish. But the IG report laid out all the details and it was clear that Hillary had lied many times. Now Mitchell has flipped on Hillary.

Berstein always thinks Democratic leaders are "horrified" by HRC...

Man it is worse then what he said in February about the speech transcripts....

The CNN commentator began his analysis:

There is a huge story going on. I spent part of this weekend talking to people in the White House. They are horrified at how Hillary Clinton is blowing up her own campaign. They are worried that the Democrats could-

He added:

Think about that.

On top of this shit

review, including from the chief investigational entity looking into this, but the concern is deeper than a rules violation.

Start with her considerably high unfavorables, then add to it the perception that she will try end-arounds on the rules for secrecy. The perception by many that she is untrustworthy becomes a snare drum if she hands the Republicans (and the media) this email issue, because they're going to bang on it all the way to November.

Hillary Clinton owes the people in the Democratic Party who have heartily endorsed her candidacy a thorough explanation of where things stand, what exactly is still in play, and what might happen. She's letting this drag on and on, and it's becoming toxic.

Or just drop out for the sake of the country.

They may voice their support for one candidate or another but they can change who they say they'll support whenever they get into their heads to do so.

I would love to see them eliminated from the process altogether.

She'd keep her campaign going from a jail cell.

I'd love to see the SNL version of that.

I noticed a definite shift- Hillary is not looking like a good bet to them now...but they all look like they are prepared to choke her down like bad medicine.

They have no choice.

97% chance of winning the nomination, 65% chance of winning the presidency.

I had a friend, an attorney, who is a member of the Inner Circle. It is the one hundred most prominent trial lawyers in America. John Edwards, who was a terrific and renowned trial attorney was a member. I remember during Bill's 1996 election she was concerned that the special prosecutor, Ken Starr, who was dogging him would derail it. I told her not to worry...

Unless Hills was doing hanky panky with a young intern and then dissemble about it under oath she will be fine.

Kind of captures her well.

n/t

and James Brady, Reagan's press secretary, talked about how he never allowed photographers to take pics of Reagan from below. Basically said he kicked them (the photographers) if they tried...and this is why.

of being taken from below with Hillary. It's the tilt of her head.

...is having second thoughts. Well...if they're doing their ostensible job: preventing a politically-disastrous, damaged candidate from handing the presidency to the GOP. I suspect, however, that many will still be doing the real job of SD's: preventing challenges to the party establishment/Third Way.

To the latter, fuck you very much.

And I'm not saying they'll choose Sen Sanders because I believe they'd pick Trump before they do that. They will vote and do what ever is in the best interests of the DNC and only the DNC. That, for now, means Sec Clinton. Even with more bad news on this front (Not an indictment. We don't indict The Beautiful People and there may not be one at all) they might/probably will just stick with her and take their chances.

Maybe VP Biden will get drafted but I don't think he stands any better chance than Sec Clinton, really. So, they'll take their chances and if Trump wins then that's o.k. Not as good as Sec Clinton but they'll still make money.

But, the SD's don't care about the base or their silly will. They were created specifically to go against the base if need be. If they truly fear a Trump presidency they'll override the base in a New York minute. I just don't think they do.

This is not the tune y'all would be singing if Sanders was the pledged delegate leader, hypocrite.

I don't pretend to speak for anybody but myself but "going against the base" is exactly what the SD's were created for just in case we nominated our weird Aunto Sophia with all the cats or something. To prevent another 1968.

If Sen Sanders had all the SD's and it came to light that he did some stupid shit like this server and Blackberry fixation I'd be cautioning my fellow Sen Sanders supporters that the SD's could still leave if the negative trend continues in spite of the "will of the base" because that's what they're for.

I'm afraid. The voters have overwhelmingly spoken that it is a non-issue.

And please...if Bernie was the pledged delegate leader and the supers swiped the nomination from him, you'd be screaming bloody murder. Don't kid yourself, or the rest of us.

Hillary is under a cloud. Super-delegates should see that. It's not like Bernie is so far behind her either.

But your insults are welcome.

can properly separate their loyalties to discern only what is best for our human being-powered democracy.

Hillary will be ok. Just a noisy bump.. Superdelagates are not going to flip to Bernie. Lol. He is threatening them and behaving so irresponsibly these days.

internal poll numbers are a concern to them or they wouldn't be pulling this garbage lawsuits

Im watching and frankly the third way sucks and I dispise it..and the philosophies
Behind it.

Also picked cherries birds didn't get and some weed eating.

Achhoo!

Edit

PS Feel the same way about neo-liberalism etc.

All the hate they've had to endure from the Bernie people? Not a chance they'll switch.

So can we please let it play out?

Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok.

They've known all along how this COULD play out, but were being told to avoid addressing it. To their utter discredit, that's exactly what they've done. They're beltway insiders who know the news before it's written and edited.

The media wouldn't touch this until they had a smoking gun. The IG report gave them that. The report has opened the floodgates and the media will now be all over the many paths the emails lead them down. There is a lot in those emails that hasn't come out yet and it's not going to be good for you know who.

such desperation..tick tock tick tock..nine days now...bye bye Bernie.

Behold:

http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php

That takes guts.

even if was the very last thing i ever got do i would be running with it in hand.

Yea, probably not that much in the last forty years but you know what they say about having your ticket punch. Most anybody with any fame would sure to be careful about being around him. Think about it, if you were this person that was part of this duo instrumental in taking down this powerful crook. He probably knows a lot more than we will ever get to hear about but please continue on with your trash talk. Helps people like me think

Thanks for the thread, Fast Walker 52.

The only way it wouldn't be political suicide would be for them to block any nomination until all delegates are released and pick somebody who didn't run

It's either going to be Hillary or Bernie--there the ones who chose to run and put in the effort. If Hillary has to withdraw, it will be Bernie and he'll beat trump like a drum.

That would be worse in terms of the reaction

picking Bernie would be far less disruptive to the Dem party than a 3rd person, IMO

The self destruction will be fun to watch I mean that one.

For the record, I really don't care if your party ends up with Mickey Mouse for President. But ooohhh boy....how to grab party destruction and embrace it! Though I agree, they will do that. The party fears Sanders.

I think I gotta get metric tons of....popcorn though. Will be entertaining as hell.

Like most of the inside the beltway talking heads though, he still believes an indictment won't happen. After what was disclosed in the IG report, a recommendation to indict from the FBI is much more likely.

The same way they first came out in 1973... From small regional partisan papers.

Let's wait and see what we hear the Friday before the 4th of July weekend. It could be the ultimate news dump.

Bernie has almost half of the Dems and he has about 70% of the Independants. Indies are a bigger group of voters than even the Dem or Reps. If they run someone besides Bernie, kiss the party goodbye. There will be mutiny.

As I understand it Kerry referred it to Justice himself. This is not just about Hillary being stupid and careless with her server or even having a server.

Two men were discussing Hillary Clinton. I kept on dozing, so I wasn't following their conversation very closely, but they were discussing her in the past tense, to the point where I thought, "OMG! She's ended her campaign!" I was very surprised when I got up a couple of hours later and she hadn't.

But boy, did they sound like they were conducting a post-mortem on her career.

Maybe they're being somewhat prophetic.

So devastating she just won the nomination